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In this episode, your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy, delves into the incredible resources available to help you broaden your WordPress expertise. Whether you&#8217;re just starting out or looking to deepen your skillset, these tools and tutorials offer something for everyone. Join us as we explore how Learn WordPress can be your guide on the journey to mastering WordPress, providing invaluable support and community connections along the way.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Credits</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Host:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chanthaboune/\">Josepha Haden Chomphosy</a><br>Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dustinhartzler/\">Dustin Hartzler</a><br>Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiarce/\">Javier Arce</a><br>Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjmcsherry/\">Brett McSherry</a><br>Song: Fearless First by Kevin MacLeod</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Notes</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://events.wordpress.org/\">WordPress Events </a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn WordPress</a>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/online-workshops/\">Online Workshops</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorials/\">Tutorials</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/lesson-plans/\">Lesson Plans</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Small List of Big Things</strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/youth-teens-workshop-at-wordcamp-europe-2024/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">WordCamp Europe Youth &amp; Teen Workshop Registration is Open</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/05/03/roadmap-to-6-6/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Roadmap to WordPress 6.6</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/introducing-showcase-day/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">WordCamp US 2024 Showcase Day</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/04/08/share-your-feedback-with-meetup-com/\">Share Feedback with&nbsp;Meetup.com</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Have a question you&#8217;d like answered? Submit them to&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:wpbriefing@WordPress.org\">WPBriefing@WordPress.org</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<span id=\"more-17278\"></span>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:10] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project, some insight into the community that supports it, and get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks. I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here we go!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:28] (Intro Music)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:40] <strong>Josepha:</strong> My friends, I don&#8217;t know about where you live, but where I live, it&#8217;s graduation season. Students all across the region are either gearing down for a little bit of a brain break or gearing up for the next big adventure in their lives. And as I watch these students discover the next phases in their lives, whether it looks good or bad, whether it feels fearful or faithful, I can&#8217;t help but think back to my last big change.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:07] <strong>Josepha:</strong> The one that brought me here to WordPress. I was working in insurance at the time and investing in a side hustle. And as is often the case with side hustles, discovered that knowing something about marketing myself was going to be key. Now, this next bit, I know that a lot of you will understand immediately. After that realization, I entered a period in my life where I was learning how to invest in my hoped-for side hustle so that I could realize my hoped-for dreams while also having to succeed at the job that I was using to pay my bills.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>By some singular coincidence, I wound up being introduced to the WordPress project, where I found not only the tools it turned out I needed but also people who were willing to help me learn them. For me, during that time, the cost to get access to both the tool and that support was basically zero. Like the whole cost to me was get those WordPress people together in a room to talk about WordPress for an hour.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:04] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And that&#8217;s something that I always want to do anyway. I always want to get people together. And if what we&#8217;re talking about is WordPress, and that is what I need to learn about, then so be it. I realize that there is a little bit of privilege in that story and a whole lot of persistence. It&#8217;s not like I discovered it, and overnight, everything worked out well, and perfectly, and correctly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, all of the struggles to get what I got accomplished done aside. One of the things that I love the most about how the WordPress project has evolved over time is that we took that already low-cost, low-barrier concept and did everything in our power to take that low-cost, low-barrier and make it available to as many people as possible in as many points in their journey as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, if you&#8217;re at the start of your career or thinking about a bit of a career change, I have some resources for you. Like, stick around. But before we get to the resources, I want to make sure that you hear this. Learning WordPress things, whether that&#8217;s the software itself, or how to run a business supported by WordPress, or how to support other businesses by building them WordPress stuff, learning these skills now is an investment in who you want to be.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:20] <strong>Josepha:</strong> It&#8217;s placing a bet that&#8217;s grounded in what you think you can bring to the world before anyone else might have figured out it&#8217;s what they need in their lives. And when you do that, in WordPress, you&#8217;re accessing and hopefully one day contributing to an equitable framework that doesn&#8217;t require you to understand it in order for you to benefit from it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can do hard things, and hopefully, these resources make those hard things a little easier. I&#8217;m going to take us through a whirlwind wayfinding list. I&#8217;ll generally be focused on time required and then kind of like necessary actions or context that would be useful for you to know. But remember that your mileage may vary.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:01] <strong>Josepha:</strong> If something sounds close but not perfect, I encourage you to give it a try anyway. The worst that happens is you try something different next time. Or, in the best-case scenario, you create something that other folks also have been missing. There was something that was close for them but not perfect either, and maybe you found the thing that&#8217;s perfect for them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, here is my whirlwind wayfinding list. Let&#8217;s go. Only have one hour a week and prefer a little company in your learning? Check out a meetup event near you. You can find those listed in your dashboard or on events.WordPress.org, but frequently, they happen during the week, after work hours, sometimes they happen on the weekend, they happen like in libraries or coffee shops.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, there are a lot of different ways that these events come together, and surely, there will be something that is the sort of low-key event that you want. But if not, you can always reach out to your local chapter and see how you can get involved with that, how you can help them create a new meetup event.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:02] <strong>Josepha:</strong> The next option, if you only have an hour a week, but you actually don&#8217;t want company but still use some external support, I would check out one of our online workshops. There are cohorts for each workshop, and they&#8217;re run by facilitators so that you can learn and socialize from the comfort and safety of your own space, or if you really are super strapped for time, that can help with like not having to commute anywhere. Next up on our list, feel like you could average an hour a week, but honestly, would prefer it to be in one big chunk? Check out a WordCamp near you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Those are a little bit like the meetups but quite a bit bigger and a lot more content, a lot more learning available, and gets you into a different kind of group of people in your local area. Those happen about once a year per city or region, but if there&#8217;s not one within a comfortable traveling distance for you, it might be a good chance for you to do a mini business trip, or if you&#8217;re doing it as current career development, see if your boss, or your boss self, if you are your own boss, has a continuing education budget available for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:08] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Have 30 minutes or so a week and don&#8217;t need any external motivation? On the one hand, I am a little jealous. I sometimes need my own external motivation. But, if that&#8217;s not you, if you can just self-drive forever, then courses over on learn.WordPress.org are just about your speed. We even have a series of learning pathways in development that curate all the courses you need to achieve particular milestones.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can also help to create those. If you have been all the way through your learning journey and you&#8217;re, like, the most WordPressy WordPresser we&#8217;ve ever seen, and you just want to make sure that other people have the same opportunities you&#8217;ve had, that&#8217;s an excellent opportunity to show up and make sure that the knowledge is still available, still free, still can be accessed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And finally, if you have unpredictable time and also still comfortable being completely self-driven, We have in the WordPress ecosystem countless videos, blogs, tutorials, and a ton of content creators that are behind them that specialize in teaching WordPress basics but also leveling up existing knowledge. And if your type of existing knowledge is in the, like, gathering the network to succeed, sort of area. We even have podcasts and blogs that are dedicated to the more businessy side of WordPress, how to make this function in the WordPress ecosystem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:32] <strong>Josepha:</strong> As always, I&#8217;ll have links for everything in the show notes—just myriad links because this isn&#8217;t even all that we need to share with you today. And I&#8217;m going to say this last thing one more time because I really, really mean it like a whole, whole lot. I know it&#8217;s hard, bordering on impossible sometimes, to carve out time to learn new things. But when you&#8217;re ready to invest in yourself, I&#8217;m pretty sure that these resources will be here to support your hoped-for dreams.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:58] (Music interlude)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:05] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And that brings us now to our small list of big things. First up is speaking of learning, speaking of investing in your future. WordCamp Europe has a youth and teen workshop going on. The registration for that is still open. It is open for students aged 10 to 16. It&#8217;s gonna be a hands-on workshop. They&#8217;ll get to build their own website with WordPress and then explore some cutting-edge technology from VR to AI and learn essential internet safety skills. We&#8217;re going to be running that on June 13th. It will be in both English and Italian. I will leave a link to the registration in the show notes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the next thing on our list is pretty much related. It&#8217;s kind of related. At WordCamp US this year, we have a Showcase Day. Now, this is new to WordCamp US, and it&#8217;s all about pushing the boundaries of what WordPress can do. It will feature presentations, demos, and technical workshops for all kinds of projects, from high-profile, large-scale builds with innovative integrations to more niche creative implementations that still have a big impact. Submissions are now open for it. If you are working on something that is really cool and uses WordPress and want to show it off to the WordPress community, wander over there, submit your project; let&#8217;s take a look at it and see if we can get it into that showcase lineup, but if you are looking for inspiration about what WordPress can do, if you&#8217;re still figuring out how this can work the best for you, that&#8217;s going to be a great opportunity to look at some unusual implementations so that you can get an idea for how big this thing can get.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:43] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And just some tactical things. The next two things on my small of big things are two tactical items. One is that WordPress 6.6 is on the move; as always, we have Beta 1 scheduled pretty soon here. So, dig into our priority features. I will leave a link to the roadmap for WordPress 6.6. We&#8217;re targeting, if I recall correctly, middle of July for that release. And so it&#8217;s coming up faster than you think. And we would absolutely love for you to come in, test the Beta, tell us what&#8217;s broken so that we can fix it before it gets out. We can&#8217;t fix the things if you don&#8217;t tell us they&#8217;re broken. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:17] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And then the final thing on our small list of big things is that speaking of not being able to fix things that we don&#8217;t know are broken. So, we use meetup.com to manage all of our meetup series. Well, most of our meetup series anyway, but they are planning to invest in some product improvements, and they have asked for feedback from the WordPress community. Historically, we are one of the largest, most active communities on their platform. And so, if you could fill out the feedback form, if you&#8217;ve been to a meetup, or if you tried to find a meetup using meetup.com and did not succeed, that&#8217;s probably also relevant information. I&#8217;ll have a link to that here as well. It will go directly to their product team. And hopefully we&#8217;ll see some product improvements for the WordPress community in the future.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:01] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And that, my friends, is your small list of big things. Don&#8217;t forget to follow us, follow me on your favorite podcast app, or subscribe directly on WordPress.org/news. You&#8217;ll get a friendly reminder whenever there&#8217;s a new episode, and if you liked what you heard today, share it with a fellow WordPresser. Or, if you had questions about what you heard, you can share those with me at WPBriefing@WordPress.org. I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Thanks again, and I&#8217;ll see you in a couple of weeks.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:29] (Music outro)&nbsp;</p>\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17278\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:1;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:61:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:7:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:73:\"WP Briefing: Episode 79: Why Start a WordPress Media Corps (and Why Now?)\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:92:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/05/episode-79-why-start-a-wordpress-media-corps-and-why-now/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 14 May 2024 12:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:2:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Podcast\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"wp-briefing\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?post_type=podcast&p=17253\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:470:\"There’s a new initiative in the WordPress community: the WordPress Media Corps. In today’s episode of the WordPress Briefing, you’ll find out how it came to be, first as a nugget of an idea during the pandemic and now as an active experiment. Learn how this shift in focus values the ongoing impact, and often invisible effort, of independent WordPress media—and seeks to help them more easily deliver engaging, high-quality WordPress content to their audiences.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:9:\"enclosure\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:0:\"\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:3:{s:3:\"url\";s:51:\"https://wordpress.org/news/files/2024/05/WPB079.mp3\";s:6:\"length\";s:1:\"0\";s:4:\"type\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11956:\"\n<p>There’s a new initiative in the WordPress community: the WordPress Media Corps. In today’s episode of the WordPress Briefing, you’ll find out how it came to be, first as a nugget of an idea during the pandemic and now as an active experiment. Learn how this shift in focus values the ongoing impact, and often invisible effort, of independent WordPress media—and seeks to help them more easily deliver engaging, high-quality WordPress content to their audiences.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Credits</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Host:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chanthaboune/\">Josepha Haden Chomphosy</a><br>Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dustinhartzler/\">Dustin Hartzler</a><br>Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiarce/\">Javier Arce</a><br>Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjmcsherry/\">Brett McSherry</a><br>Song: Fearless First by Kevin MacLeod</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Notes</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2024/03/20/making-a-wordpress-media-corps/\">Making a WordPress Media Corps</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2024/04/29/wordpress-media-corps-next-steps/\">WordPress Media Corps Next Steps</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/media-corps/2024/05/03/wordpress-media-corps-initial-roadmap/\">WordPress Media Corps Initial Roadmap</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C0723V9S7CY\">#media-corps</a>&nbsp;Slack channel</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Small List of Big Things</strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/04/23/wordpress-6-6-call-for-volunteers-update/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">WordPress 6.6 call for volunteers update</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/05/wordpress-6-5-3-maintenance-release/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">WordPress 6.5.3 maintenance release</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/openverse/2024/04/16/introducing-collection-views-for-tags-creators-and-sources/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Openverse Introduces Collection views for Tags, Creators, and Sources</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/schedule/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">WordCamp Europe 2024 Schedule Released</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Have a question you&#8217;d like answered? Submit them to&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:wpbriefing@WordPress.org\">WPBriefing@WordPress.org</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<span id=\"more-17253\"></span>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:00]&nbsp;<strong>Josepha:</strong>&nbsp;Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project, some insight into the community that supports it, and get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Here we go!&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:28] (Intro Music)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:39] <strong>Josepha:</strong> If you&#8217;ve been keeping an eye on the WordPress marketing space for the past few months, today&#8217;s topic will be no surprise to you. Today, we&#8217;re talking about the WordPress Media Corps. It&#8217;s a bit of a controversial topic; there&#8217;s no point denying that, so today, I want to take a little journey through its history.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The WordPress Media Corps is an idea that goes back probably four, maybe five years ago. I don&#8217;t know what year it is—four years, five, four, or five years ago. It was the height of our COVID isolation. So I was spending a lot of time with our WordPress media folks, people who hosted podcasts, who gathered weekly roundups, and who were writing these nuanced and thoughtful newsletters.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:19] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And during the prep phases for these, I was witnessing all the work that goes into them, researching questions and topics, marketing both before and after any appearance, and consistently engaging with the audiences they had grown over time. Over the course of the year, I wound up in two or three different conversations with these hosts about how this does or doesn&#8217;t fit in the WordPress project as a way to contribute.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, invisible contributions are a persistent concern for any open source project and is one of the problems I am often most desperate to solve. As with so many long-standing problems, if the solution were easy, it wouldn&#8217;t still be a problem. And that&#8217;s the case here as well. I&#8217;ve got a quick side note on why this is a hard problem to solve at the end of the episode. It&#8217;s relevant to the overall discussion, but not if you&#8217;re only here to learn about how we arrived at the Media Corps. So, choose your own adventure!&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:16] <strong>Josepha:</strong> So, during one of those discussions, Allie Nimmons reminded me that we have always relied on third-party supporters to share information about WordPress. It was a smaller group than we have now, much less variety in the format, but they didn&#8217;t have contribution acknowledgments either, right?&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And she was right. They were included in something called the WP Planet. And I remember that I said to her what I wouldn&#8217;t give to be able to acknowledge the value that WordPress media folks bring to our ecosystem. These folks who have more flexibility than us can be a little more, more nimble who are canonical power users of WordPress, sharing not only what they are excited about now and in the near future but also the things that they had to learn in order to get the most out of the features and the software.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:07] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Like that&#8217;s practically a gold standard of the people that we want to have talking about us.&nbsp; And, for folks who&#8217;ve worked with Allie, you probably can predict what&#8217;s next. You know she&#8217;s not afraid to call it like she sees it, and she called me on my excessive dreaming. She asked me what actually was stopping me from getting that done. I don&#8217;t recall if I had an answer for her at the time. I, I probably didn&#8217;t, but ultimately, I think the answer was, most likely, that I was afraid to try. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you might be asking yourself, what has changed my mind since then? What has changed since 2020, when I was maybe too scared to get this done? Why does now feel like the right time compared to when I was first thinking through it? Well, for starters, when we look at then, we look at the context of then; it was my second year leading us. It was 2020, the year of COVID. And I was desperately trying to roll out a disaster recovery plan, incomplete though it was.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:06] <strong>Josepha:</strong> I wasn&#8217;t sure how much more disruption we as a community could stand, so I didn&#8217;t want to take any more risks than I had to. Which brings us to today. One of my big obstacles to tackle this year is our plateauing growth. I said it right there in my big-picture post for 2024. Re-engaging those gold standard users who are talking about us while making it clear that their contributions add to the success of the project seems like a high-impact opportunity to me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;ve kicked off our initial experiment for the Media Corps. As with many high-impact projects, there&#8217;s also a high potential for risk, so I&#8217;m trying to get a clear indication of success as early as possible. Because of that, the experiment is time-limited and has pretty strict guidelines up front. It&#8217;s also being paired with a pause on the current work with the marketing team, just so that we can focus as much attention to get that signal sooner rather than later.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:01] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Not everyone agrees with this plan, which is to be expected. There are so many seasoned marketing professionals in WordPress, myself included, and I mean, our software is a primary tool in so many marketing tool belts. It probably would be odd if we didn&#8217;t have any marketers around. So there you have it, a brief explanation of how we got to today&#8217;s Media Corps experiment.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Quick side note on why it&#8217;s a hard problem is that a good first step to acknowledging invisible work is removing the need for human recognition of the work. I&#8217;ve worked with teams, guided them since I got here to define contributions as granularly as possible so that we can find ways to attach automated triggers to them so that you don&#8217;t have to do a ton of invisible things for someone to notice them and give you props for them. Obviously, the more automation, the more dehumanization, and of course, the work of breaking things into tiny chunks feels like micromanagement; it feels like value assessment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:01] <strong>Josepha:</strong> It also often felt like kind of a toxic tallying of who was doing what where. None of that is what any of us wanted when I started that work, and it&#8217;s certainly not what I want now. But because it is so often misread as a way to, like, separate out good contributions from bad, not all teams have embarked on that journey with me. And for those who have done that with me, not all of them have actually implemented, kind of that definition of the individual types of contributions you can make so that we can do that kind of automated acknowledgment of the work.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:40] (Music interlude)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:47] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Which brings us now to our small list of big things. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>First on our list is WordPress 6.6. It&#8217;s our next major release. There are still a few volunteer roles that are available. I think documentation lead is one. So, if you are the sort of folk who just loves to write the docs, it&#8217;s been a while since you have done that for the WordPress project, with the WordPress project. That&#8217;s a great opportunity for you to kind of dip your toe in and see what&#8217;s going on in the world of WordPress. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:15] <strong>Josepha:</strong> The second thing on our list is a minor release that actually came out last week. It&#8217;s a maintenance release, but it&#8217;s one of those where it&#8217;s really important to get upgraded and make sure that you have the latest security and maintenance releases on all of your sites that are in production.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The third thing on our list is about Openverse. Openverse is now offering a new way to explore our collection. We&#8217;ve got over 800 million images and audio files in there. And so, the collection search makes it easier to view works that are belonging to an individual tag, creator, or source. It just kind of helps you filter it out a little bit more so that there are more decisions than there are options available in there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the fourth thing on my list is that the WordCamp Europe 2024 schedule has been released. We&#8217;ll be talking a bit more about this event as we get closer and closer to it. We are racing our way. It&#8217;s like a month away as we go. So take a look, plan your activities, and come and check out our community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:16] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And that, my friends, is your small list of big things. Don&#8217;t forget to follow us on your favorite podcast app or subscribe directly on WordPress.org/news. You&#8217;ll get a friendly reminder whenever there&#8217;s a new episode. If you liked what you heard today, share it with a fellow WordPresser. Or, if you had questions about what you heard, you can share those with me at WPBriefing@WordPress.org. I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Thanks for tuning in today for the WordPress Briefing, and I&#8217;ll see you again in a couple of weeks.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:44] (Music outro)&nbsp;</p>\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17253\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:2;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:57:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:6:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"WordPress 6.5.3 Maintenance Release\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:71:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/05/wordpress-6-5-3-maintenance-release/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 07 May 2024 16:42:58 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"Releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17246\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:338:\"WordPress 6.5.3 is now available! This minor release features 12 bug fixes in Core and 9 bug fixes for the block editor. You can review a summary of the maintenance updates in this release by reading the Release Candidate announcement. WordPress 6.5.3 is a short-cycle release. The next major release will be version 6.6 planned [&#8230;]\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"Aaron Jorbin\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7679:\"\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WordPress 6.5.3 is now available!</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>This minor release features <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&amp;milestone=6.5.3&amp;group=status&amp;col=id&amp;col=summary&amp;col=owner&amp;col=type&amp;col=priority&amp;col=component&amp;col=version&amp;col=keywords&amp;order=priority\">12 bug fixes in Core</a> and <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/61299\">9 bug fixes for the block editor</a>. You can review a summary of the maintenance updates in this release by reading the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/05/02/wordpress-6-5-3-rc1-is-now-available/\">Release Candidate announcement</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.5.3 is a short-cycle release. The next major release will be <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-6/\">version 6.6</a> planned for July 2024.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have sites that support automatic background updates, the update process will begin automatically.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.5.3.zip\">download WordPress 6.5.3 from WordPress.org</a>, or visit your WordPress Dashboard, click “Updates”, and then click “Update Now”.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For more information on this release, please <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/wordpress-version/version-6-5-3\">visit the HelpHub site</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Thank you to these WordPress contributors</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"is-style-default\">This release was led by <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin\">Aaron Jorbin</a> and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/grantmkin/\">Grant M. Kinney</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"is-style-default\">WordPress 6.5.3 would not have been possible without the contributions of the following people. Their asynchronous coordination to deliver maintenance fixes into a stable release is a testament to the power and capability of the WordPress community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"is-style-wporg-props-long\"><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin\">Aaron Jorbin</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adamsilverstein\">Adam Silverstein</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adrianduffell\">adrianduffell</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wildworks\">Aki Hamano</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alanfuller\">Alan Fuller</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/anlino\">Anders Norén</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oandregal\">André</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/afercia\">Andrea Fercia</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/azaozz\">Andrew Ozz</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andrewserong\">Andrew Serong</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/afragen\">Andy Fragen</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/annezazu\">annezazu</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dextorlobo\">Arun Sharma</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aslamdoctor\">Aslam Doctor</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benlk\">Ben Keith</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/britner\">Ben Ritner &#8211; Kadence WP</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bernhard-reiter\">bernhard-reiter</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ironprogrammer\">Brian Alexander</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/poena\">Carolina Nymark</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/costdev\">Colin Stewart</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/CookiesForDevo\">CookiesForDevo</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colorful-tones\">Damon Cook</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/talldanwp\">Daniel Richards</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/darerodz\">darerodz</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davecpage\">Dave Page</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidbaumwald\">David Baumwald</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/justlevine\">David Levine</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/DrewAPicture\">Drew Jaynes</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ellatrix\">Ella</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kebbet\">Erik</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/evanltd\">evanltd</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/flixos90\">Felix Arntz</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mamaduka\">George Mamadashvili</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/grantmkin\">Grant M. Kinney</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gziolo\">Greg Ziółkowski</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/isabel_brison\">Isabel Brison</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/macmanx\">James Huff</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jason_the_adams\">Jason Adams</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb\">Jb Audras</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/JeffPaul\">Jeffrey Paul</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeherve\">Jeremy Herve</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/luminuu\">Jessica Lyschik</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joedolson\">Joe Dolson</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joemcgill\">Joe McGill</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jordesign\">jordesign</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorgefilipecosta\">Jorge Costa</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/verygoode\">Joshua Goode</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kevin940726\">Kai Hao</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kevinwhoffman\">Kevin Hoffman</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/khokansardar\">Khokan Sardar</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/luisherranz\">luisherranz</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mmaattiiaass\">Matias Benedetto</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/webdevmattcrom\">Matt Cromwell</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/devsahadat\">Md Sahadat Husain</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mukesh27\">Mukesh Panchal</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/narenin\">Narendra Sishodiya</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ntsekouras\">Nik Tsekouras</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/swissspidy\">Pascal Birchler</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/peterwilsoncc\">Peter Wilson</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ramonopoly\">ramonopoly</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/roytanck\">Roy Tanck</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/salcode\">Sal Ferrarello</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mikachan\">Sarah Norris</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/SergeyBiryukov\">Sergey Biryukov</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sabernhardt\">Stephen Bernhardt</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/stevejonesdev\">Steve Jones</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/tomjcafferkey\">Tom Cafferkey</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nestea29950\">WilliamG</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/yguyon\">Yannis Guyon</a></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to contribute</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>To get involved in WordPress core development, head over to Trac, <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/report/6\">pick a ticket</a>, and join the conversation in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C02RQBWTW\">#core</a> and <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C06U06K50Q5\">#6-6-release-leads</a> channels. Need help? Check out the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/\">Core Contributor Handbook</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right\"><em>Thanks to <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/team/UGP7D7TBP\">@grantmkin</a>, </em><a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/angelasjin/\' class=\'mention\'><span class=\'mentions-prefix\'>@</span>angelasjin</a><em>, </em>and <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeffpaul/\' class=\'mention\'><span class=\'mentions-prefix\'>@</span>jeffpaul</a><em> for proofreading.</em></p>\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17246\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:3;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:61:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:7:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:83:\"WP Briefing: Episode 78: Guided Growth: Cultivating Contributors Through Mentorship\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:104:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/04/episode-78-guided-growth-cultivating-contributors-through-mentorship/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 29 Apr 2024 12:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:2:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Podcast\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"wp-briefing\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?post_type=podcast&p=17229\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:378:\"Explore the transformative world of the WordPress Contributor Mentorship Program with guest host Angela Jin and special guest and sponsored contributor Hari Shanker. Whether you\'re a long-time WordPress enthusiast or new to the scene, this episode is packed with insights, stories, and tips to help you engage more deeply with one of the most passionate open source communities.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:9:\"enclosure\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:0:\"\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:3:{s:3:\"url\";s:53:\"https://wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Enhanced.mp3\";s:6:\"length\";s:1:\"0\";s:4:\"type\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23878:\"\n<p>Explore the transformative world of the WordPress Contributor Mentorship Program with guest host Angela Jin and special guest and sponsored contributor Hari Shanker. Whether you&#8217;re a long-time WordPress enthusiast or new to the scene, this episode is packed with insights, stories, and tips to help you engage more deeply with one of the most passionate open source communities.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Credits</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Guest host: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/angelasjin/\">Angela Jin</a><br>Guest speaker: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/harishanker/\">Hari Shanker</a><br>Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dustinhartzler/\">Dustin Hartzler</a><br>Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiarce/\">Javier Arce</a><br>Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjmcsherry/\">Brett McSherry</a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/eidolonnight/\">Nicholas Garofalo</a><br>Song: Fearless First by Kevin MacLeod</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Notes</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/5\">Five for the Future</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/contributor-day/contributor-working-group/contributor-mentorship-program-for-wordpress/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">About the Contributor Mentorship Program</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/contributor-day/contributor-working-group/contributor-mentorship-program-for-wordpress/contributor-mentorship-program-cohorts/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Details of Mentorship Program Cohorts</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/04/08/wordpress-contributor-mentorship-2024-q1-cohort-graduates/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Mentorship Program Cohort 2 Graduation Post</a> &#8211; Express interest in the next cohort by&nbsp;leaving comment or sending a message to @harishanker in the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/chat/\">Making WordPress Slack</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Small List of Big Things</strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/support/2024/04/brainstorming-a-support-team-contributor-ladder/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Brainstorming a Support Team Contributor Ladder</a>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2019/06/17/observations-on-wordpress-contributor-team-structure/\">Observations on WordPress Contributor Team Structure</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpressfoundation.org/news/2024/kim-parsell-2024/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Apply for the Kim Parsell Memorial Scholarship for WordCamp US 2024</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Upcoming WordPress events:\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/\">WordCamp Europe 2024</a>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/tickets/\">Tickets</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Find upcoming events in your area on <a href=\"https://events.wordpress.org/\">events.WordPress.org</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Have a question you&#8217;d like answered? Submit them to&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:wpbriefing@WordPress.org\">WPBriefing@WordPress.org</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<span id=\"more-17229\"></span>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Angela:</strong> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project, some insights into the community that supports it, and get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks. I am your guest host, Angela Jin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s go!&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:30] (Intro Music)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:40] <strong>Angela:</strong> I am delighted to be guest hosting this episode of the WordPress Briefing and to talk about the Contributor Mentorship Program, a community-driven initiative in the WordPress space that is proving to really support contributor journeys. And joining me today is special guest, Hari Shanker, Five for the Future Program Manager. Welcome, Hari!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:02] <strong>Hari:</strong> Thank you, Angela. Excited to be here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:04] <strong>Angela:</strong> Now, before we dive into the Contributor Mentorship Program, can you first tell me a bit about yourself? I&#8217;d love to know a bit more about your role as Five for the Future Program Manager.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:16] <strong>Hari:</strong> Sure. So, my name is Hari Shanker. I live in India in a city called Kochi. And I&#8217;d like to share some context to explain what I do. I am a sponsored contributor working full-time on WordPress, and I have been contributing primarily to the WordPress Community Team full-time since April 2020, where I am a Community Program Manager, formerly known as a Super Deputy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Since September 2022, I have been working exclusively on projects that bolster the WordPress contributor experience. A key part of this work is my role as the Program Manager for the Five for the Future program, where my day-to-day work involves supporting and empowering companies and individuals that have pledged a part of their time to contribute to WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:00] <strong>Hari:</strong> In parallel, I also lead the Contributor Working Group of the WordPress Community Team, which has the goal of making the contributor experience in WordPress the best it can be. Our recent focus has been on running an experimental contributor mentorship program as well. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:16] <strong>Angela:</strong> Excellent. Thank you. So, I was recently at Open Source Summit, and figuring out funding and commitments to projects was a very hot topic. And people were really interested in Five for the Future. And so, Hari, would you mind giving us a quick overview of what Five for the Future is, and how it aims to support the WordPress open source project?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:44] <strong>Hari:</strong> Absolutely. The Cofounder of WordPress, Matt Mullenweg, launched Five for the Future in 2014 as a call to action for organizations and individuals who have benefited from WordPress, either the CMS or the community, to contribute up to 5 percent of their resources to the continued success of the WordPress project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:03] <strong>Hari:</strong> In 2019, this idea was formalized as a program with a pledging page that lives in the URL WordPress.org/five. Right now, this program attempts to foster generous collaboration towards the long-term health and stability of our project for the future. So, like any large and successful open source project, WordPress has a lot of big goals and tasks, not all of which can be accomplished by volunteers in that available time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here&#8217;s where sponsored contributors come in. Sponsored contributors have more time, availability, and bandwidth to make an impact on a lot of these tasks. They also work on some routine but important administrative and housekeeping tasks that are essential to keep the project running smoothly. At this time, the program has 868 contributors from 183 companies, who have pledged 7,722 hours of contribution time per week for the program. I can also share that roughly 70% of contribution activity in WordPress is coming from these sponsored contributors. That is the Five for the Future program in brief.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:15] <strong>Angela:</strong> Thanks, Hari. That&#8217;s incredible that so much of our contribution comes through sponsored time and clearly is very necessary to keep the WordPress open source project running. Wonderful. All right, well, I would love to dig into the Contributor Mentorship Program. Can you tell us a bit more about how this came to be? What is the Contributor Mentorship Program?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:41] <strong>Hari:</strong> Oh, absolutely. It is one of my favorite programs and one of the best things that I&#8217;ve worked on personally. So, the Contributor Mentorship Program aims to onboard new contributors to WordPress by providing them one-on-one and cohort-based mentorship for a period of typically four to six weeks. The mentorship program typically coincides a major WordPress release.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:04] <strong>Hari:</strong> And the idea behind the program is to help new contributors kickstart their WordPress contributor journey by providing them an in-depth overview of the WordPress project as well. To talk a bit about how this started, it all began in 2022-2023 when I started researching on the WordPress contributor experience. I discovered that there were gaps in the onboarding experience for new contributors. And I did some research on how we can solve this issue.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, while those gaps can be fixed by improving the overall WordPress contributor onboarding experience through technical changes or changes in the program. Mentorship really stood out as an excellent solution to solve the problem. Based on my discovery from this research, I worked on revitalizing the WordPress Contributor Working Group of the Community Team. And together, our group we started working on building a mentorship program. We did a few months of collaborative discussions and brainstorming. And as a result, the group put together the idea for a pilot cohort-based mentorship program, which paired up 13 new contributors as mentees with one mentor each. The cohort worked together for four weeks, and 11 of these mentees graduated after making impactful contributions to the project, with over half of the cohort staying on to make long-term contributions. In fact, we just wrapped up the second cohort of the program in February 2024, which had 52 participants, of which 44 graduated from the program.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:34] <strong>Angela:</strong> Amazing. Congratulations. And I speaking just for myself, I know how important mentorship was to, to a lot of my journeys, both within WordPress and outside of, and so I think it&#8217;s wonderful that we&#8217;re able to bring mentorship to this space. What sort of benefits are there to participating in this program, either as a new WordPress contributor or as a mentor?&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:04] <strong>Hari:</strong> There&#8217;s a bunch of benefits for both new contributors and mentors in this program, starting with new contributors. First and foremost, new participants in this program they get to kick off their WordPress contributor journey by making initial contributions. So, in my mind, the biggest benefit that they get is they get a chance to actually make their first contributions in the area of their choice with help from a mentor. The other main benefit that I see is that these mentees or new contributors. They get to learn a lot about the WordPress project and how it works. They get to learn about the WordPress release process broadly. And in short, participants in this program also get a chance to network with and learn from experienced WordPress contributors.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And finally, this program is a great opportunity for mentees or new contributors to pick up a lot of valuable skills that they can use in the real world. For mentors, they also get a lot of benefits from this program. In fact, to share another anecdote, some of our mentors they contributed for the first time to WordPress core in the last cohort.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:14] <strong>Hari:</strong> So, that is also something that they also get to learn, which means mentors also get to learn new skills when they be a part of this program. So, for mentors, even they get to enhance their skills, they get to expand the network within the WordPress community, but in my mind, the biggest benefit that they gain is they gain fulfillment from guiding new contributors. And personally, as a mentor myself, it&#8217;s one of the most valuable thing that you can gain from such a program. That feeling of belonging, that feeling of, you know, fostering sustainability and innovation in the project. I also feel that mentoring new contributors is a great way to bolster your leadership and communication skills, which is extremely valuable in any professional context.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:54] <strong>Angela:</strong> Absolutely. I definitely see that being able to share your experience and mentor others is a really valuable way to help the next generation of WordPressers be successful in our space. Now, you&#8217;ve talked a bit about what results you&#8217;re seeing from this program, and it&#8217;s really exciting to see that so many mentees are successfully graduating from this program. I&#8217;d love to hear more about the impact and results that you&#8217;re seeing from the mentorship program. Could you give us more details there?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:32] <strong>Hari:</strong> Absolutely. So, I shared some numbers earlier. We had 11 mentees out of 13 graduating from the 2023 cohort and 44 outta 52 mentees from the 2024 Q1 cohort graduating. From the first cohort we have six of these mentees continuing to make impactful contributions to the project, but we have more encouraging results from the second cohort, in fact. So, ten of our mentees in the second cohort got props for contributing to WordPress 6.5, and one of our mentees was a noteworthy contributor. That&#8217;s about 22% of all the mentees. Fourteen mentees from the latest cohort, which is 31%, they have committed to join the WordPress 6.6 release squad. And the program actually gave eight new core contributors to the project, which includes mentors, as I mentioned earlier.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:21] <strong>Hari:</strong> We did pre and post-cohort surveys, and the results are very interesting. I can definitely share some numbers here. So, we had a question on contributor familiarity. The familiarity of contribution for new contributors went up from 53% to 80%, that&#8217;s around 26% increase. The contribution confidence went from 57% to 82%, which is around 28%-29%. We asked if the mentees how many of these mentees were satisfied by the program. We heard that 88% of all the mentees were satisfied. 80% of mentees achieved their personal goals as part of the program. A key part of the program experience was that we asked mentees to create contribution plans to make future contributions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:06] <strong>Hari:</strong> 62% of our mentees actually made a future contribution plan. So which means, which is a 30, 60, 90-day plan. So, these mentees they&#8217;re gonna follow a plan to contribute to WordPress for the next three months. Finally, we also created a ton of learning materials for these mentees, and we are in the process of releasing them. So these are, most of these are videos, so we plan to release them in WordPress or TV and in the Learn WordPress platform. So, in my mind, seeing these mentees out in the world making impactful contributions that is the biggest impact that I&#8217;m seeing. So, having them in the project as long-term contributors. That is, in my mind, one of the biggest impacts that we&#8217;ve had from this program.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:46] <strong>Angela:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s really incredible to see that new contributors to WordPress, upon joining this program, able to better navigate this vast ecosystem and make important contributions to our space. And that they&#8217;ve made these connections, so they are sticking around and staying with us and continuing to help us build WordPress. That&#8217;s incredible.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:14] <strong>Angela:</strong> Now, I understand that between the first cohort and the second cohort, the Contributor Working Group made some important updates and iterated on the cohort itself. And one of the big changes, I understand, was to design cohorts around contributor projects. I&#8217;m curious now that we&#8217;ve talked about how fantastic this program is. Are there plans for future cohorts, and what might those cohorts look like?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:44] <strong>Hari:</strong> Absolutely. So, we have received a lot of interest in future cohorts. So, our working group just did a chat last week, and there was overwhelming positive interest and from all our working group members and other participants saying that we would love to be in a future cohort. So, short answer, yes, we will have a ton of these cohorts going forward. And we are, in fact, hosting a new cohort alongside WordPress 6.7. In October-November, 2024. And we will most likely continue to host at least one mentorship cohort every year. Ideally two, but I&#8217;m just saying one to make sure that we are sustainable. It is hard to predict how future cohorts will look like, but based on all the discussions our working group has had, I can definitely tell you how the next cohort is going to look like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:35] <strong>Hari:</strong> So, as per current plans, we will have around 20 to 30 mentees supported by mentors. And the cohort will most likely start early on in the 6.7 release process. The idea is that we would like our mentees to be more deeply involved in the 6.7 release as early as possible. We also plan to have a lot more learn-up sessions in the next cohort.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>One feedback that we heard was our mentees really enjoyed some of the learn-up sessions, and they would like these sessions to be scheduled in advance as much as possible so that they can attend as many of them as possible. So, more learn-up sessions. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:14] <strong>Hari:</strong> And finally, you mentioned projects when you spoke of the latest cohort. We are going to double down on projects in the next cohort. So the hope is to have a host of projects for folks to work on and, ideally, have all mentees work on some project or the other. So, we had projects as an experiment for the earlier cohort. Some mentees did work on projects, while some they were broadly contributing. So, ideally, for the next cohort, every mentee in the program will be a part of some project or the other. It could be a small one. It could be a big one, but there will be some project of some sort for every mentee in the program, ideally. And finally, some contributors in our cohort, they received a scholarship to participate in the last cohort. We hope to expand that. We hope to provide more opportunities for scholarship for contributors.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:05] <strong>Hari:</strong> I&#8217;m not sure how viable it is, but we did see that the folks who received scholarship, they got a chance to contribute more. So we would ideally like to provide more opportunities for scholarship, especially for folks from underrepresented backgrounds, so that they can contribute to WordPress and, you know, upskill as part of this program.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:23] <strong>Angela:</strong> Fantastic. Well, hopefully, we have convinced our listeners today to get involved in the Contributor Mentorship Program. And so, if somebody wanted to get involved, either as a mentee or a mentor, how should they go about doing so?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:42] <strong>Hari:</strong> That&#8217;s a great question. We have not opened up signups for mentors and mentees for the next cohort yet. As I mentioned, it&#8217;s going to happen later this year. However, those interested in the next cohort of the program can comment on the post. I think we can share the link in the show notes. We just published a post announcing the graduation of our mentees, and we had asked folks who are interested in joining the next cohort comment there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:07] <strong>Hari:</strong> So if you&#8217;re interested in joining the next cohort, either as a mentor or a mentee. You can comment on that post. Alternatively, you can also DM me. If you&#8217;re not comfortable commenting in a public space, my name is Hari Shanker. I am Hari Shanker, which is H-A-R-I-S-H-A-N-K-E-R. That&#8217;s my username in the Make WordPress Slack. You can DM me there expressing your interest, and I will make sure that we send you the call for interest form when it&#8217;s published.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Additionally, and this is especially to all the mentor applicants, we have a Contributor Working Group, which meets every third Thursday of the month in the Community Team channel on a text chat. It&#8217;s called a mentorship chat. It happens every month, and you can find a link to it in the Make WordPress meetings, P2 blog. So, if you&#8217;re interested in being a mentor, or if you&#8217;re interested in building the Contributor Mentorship Program, or contributing to the Contributor Mentorship Program, I would invite you to join our chat. So, the next chat is being held in May. Please join our next chat. That&#8217;s also a great way to contribute to this program, especially if you are interested in being a mentor.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:10] <strong>Angela:</strong> Wonderful. Thank you so much for joining me today, Hari. It&#8217;s been a pleasure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:16] <strong>Hari:</strong> Thank you. It&#8217;s been an honor, and thank you for inviting me to be a part of this program.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:19]&nbsp;(Music interlude)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:27] <strong>Angela:</strong> And now it is time for our small list of big things. We&#8217;ve got three things for you this week. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The first is a proposal to explore the Support Team contributor ladder. If you are not familiar with the concept of the contributor ladder, it is based on the five stages of volunteering, which examines how a volunteer gets onboarded and steps into progressive roles. By thinking through the contributor ladder, Make WordPress teams are able to improve onboarding, engagement, and connection with contributors and generally improve the health of their team. If this is of interest to you, we have a great overview post about the contributor ladder, and you can see the discussion in action over on the Support Team.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:14] <strong>Angela:</strong> Second, is that the WordPress Foundation has just announced the Kim Parcell Memorial Scholarship for 2024. This scholarship is in honor of Kim Parcell, an incredible long-time contributor, and is awarded to a current WordPress contributor who is a woman, has not previously attended WordCamp US, and requires financial assistance to attend this year&#8217;s event.&nbsp;The scholarship will provide travel assistance for the recipient to attend WordCamp US this year in Portland, Oregon, and covers travel from your home city, hotel, and your ticket to the event. The application is open through May 30th, and you can apply on the WordPress Foundation page.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Third is a reminder of our next big WordPress event, WordCamp Europe, which will be in beautiful Torino, Italy, June 13th through the 15th. You can still get tickets on their website. If you can&#8217;t make it to Italy, never fear. This time of year sees a good number of WordPress events around the world, and they are a great way to connect with WordPress friends and hear all about the latest and greatest in WordPress. You can go find upcoming events on events.WordPress.org to see what events are happening in your area. If there isn&#8217;t a WordPress event near you, you can become an organizer and start hosting events locally.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:42] <strong>Angela:</strong> And that, friends, is your small list of big things. Don&#8217;t forget to follow us on your favorite podcast app. Or subscribe directly on WordPress.org/news. You&#8217;ll get a friendly reminder whenever there&#8217;s a new episode. If you liked what you heard today, share it with a fellow WordPresser, or if you had questions about what you heard, you can share those by emailing WPBriefing@WordPress.org. I am your guest host, Angela Jin. Thanks so much for tuning in today for the WordPress Briefing. In a couple of weeks, Josepha will be back as your regular host for the next episode.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:21] (Music outro)&nbsp;</p>\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17229\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:4;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:63:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:6:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:38:\"How WordPress Is Creating a Faster Web\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:74:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/04/how-wordpress-is-creating-a-faster-web/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 15 Apr 2024 14:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:3:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"General\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Performance\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:2;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Updates\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17208\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:190:\"WordPress\'s massive reach of over 40% of the web comes with a similarly large responsibility. Read about what the WordPress project is doing to enhance performance for its users and the web.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Felix Arntz\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:6779:\"\n<p>Today, WordPress powers <a href=\"https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/content_management\">more than 40% of the web</a>. That’s a massive reach—one that comes with a similarly large responsibility. With so many people using the CMS, the WordPress community should always consider strategies for improving the visitor experience. This is where website performance plays a crucial role.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>How fast a web page loads, how quickly a page reacts when you click a button, or how smoothly it scrolls can all significantly impact the end-user experience. A more performant site can lead to <a href=\"https://web.dev/case-studies/vitals-business-impact\">higher reader engagement and more conversions</a>. Thankfully, over the past few years, the WordPress project has made major performance improvements across the board for the core platform, plugins, and themes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Many enhancements are available out of the box, with no configuration required. They improve the website frontend&#8217;s performance—the part visitors see—and various parts of the administrative experience, such as the editor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here’s a partial list of performance upgrades from the past year:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>WordPress 6.3 brought several <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/09/19/analyzing-the-core-web-vitals-performance-impact-of-wordpress-6-3-in-the-field/\">enhancements to image loading</a>. This resulted in an improvement of up to 21% in loading time for any WordPress page with a hero image.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>WordPress 6.5 launched with a <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/11/08/merging-performant-translations-into-core/\">more efficient translation engine</a>. In benchmark testing, it improved WordPress response time by 23% for all localized WordPress sites. <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/about/stats/\">More than 55% of all WordPress sites</a> worldwide use a language other than US English and would benefit from this enhancement.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>WordPress 6.5 also included several performance optimizations for the Block Editor, leading to <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/57935\">5x faster typing processing and 2x faster load times</a> when creating or editing content in the site and post editors.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>In addition to the Core enhancements listed above, the WordPress project continues to work on several efforts that indirectly benefit the ecosystem&#8217;s performance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For instance, WordPress Core leverages <a href=\"https://codehealth.vercel.app/project/wordpress\">automated tooling for continuously monitoring its performance</a>, covering every product update. This helps measure new features&#8217; performance improvements and enables contributors to detect potential performance problems during the development of a new feature or release so any issues can be proactively addressed long before end users are affected. A project is currently underway to make the same tooling used by WordPress Core developers available to plugin and theme authors as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Additionally, the new <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/plugin-check/\">WordPress plugin checker</a> allows checking any plugin for performance best practices, among other requirements and recommendations. The plugin checker should lead to more performance awareness in plugin authors and, eventually, faster plugins. If you develop plugins, consider integrating this tool into your development and testing workflow.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Last but not least, WordPress 6.5 introduced the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/03/04/interactivity-api-dev-note/\">Interactivity API</a>, which is a technical foundation that facilitates more performant user interactions. This new infrastructure drastically simplifies the implementation of interactive website features and can even centrally control certain aspects of performance, keeping multiple independent plugins operating efficiently.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>These performance updates result from a collaborative effort from all corners of the community, including the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/performance/handbook/about-the-team/\">WordPress Performance Team</a>. This team, founded in 2021, underscores the WordPress project’s commitment to performance. And the results are substantial: Compared to a year ago, 8% more WordPress sites <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/12/19/wordpress-performance-impact-on-core-web-vitals-in-2023/\">deliver good load time performance at scale</a>—significantly better than the overall web’s 5.5% load time improvement. The web is getting more performant, and WordPress is leading the way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress contributors are determined to continue this trend by working on further performance iterations. Whether you’re a WordPress end user, administrator, site builder, or developer, you can contribute to this effort. Anyone can test the performance features before being released in Core through individual feature plugins. Each feature can be tested via the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/performance-lab/\">Performance Lab plugin</a>, so please try them! Testing features early helps the team assess their impact and collect valuable feedback.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Are you eager for more WordPress performance news and updates? Then check out the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/performance/roadmap-2024/\">2024 performance roadmap</a>. Thanks to the entire community for your hard work. Not only does it ensure WordPress’ continued improvement and growth, but it benefits the entire open web.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right\"><em>Thank you to <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/annezazu/\' class=\'mention\'><span class=\'mentions-prefix\'>@</span>annezazu</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/clarkeemily/\' class=\'mention\'><span class=\'mentions-prefix\'>@</span>clarkeemily</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/tweetythierry/\' class=\'mention\'><span class=\'mentions-prefix\'>@</span>tweetythierry</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/swissspidy/\' class=\'mention\'><span class=\'mentions-prefix\'>@</span>swissspidy</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/westonruter/\' class=\'mention\'><span class=\'mentions-prefix\'>@</span>westonruter</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/adamsilverstein/\' class=\'mention\'><span class=\'mentions-prefix\'>@</span>adamsilverstein</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/joemcgill/\' class=\'mention\'><span class=\'mentions-prefix\'>@</span>joemcgill</a> for content review and <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/provenself/\' class=\'mention\'><span class=\'mentions-prefix\'>@</span>provenself</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/dansoschin/\' class=\'mention\'><span class=\'mentions-prefix\'>@</span>dansoschin</a> for editorial review.</em></p>\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17208\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:5;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:61:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:7:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:59:\"WP Briefing: Episode 77: Let’s Talk About Data Liberation\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:78:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/04/episode-77-lets-talk-about-data-liberation/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 15 Apr 2024 12:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:2:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Podcast\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"wp-briefing\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?post_type=podcast&p=17205\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:429:\"Explore the WordPress Data Liberation project in this exclusive behind-the-scenes episode discussing WordPress migrations. Joining us is WordPress Executive Director Josepha Haden Chomphosy, along with special guest and sponsored contributor Jordan Gillman. Together, they\'ll look at how the project is expanding opportunities to benefit from the freedom and flexibility WordPress offers. Don\'t miss this enlightening discussion!\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:9:\"enclosure\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:0:\"\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:3:{s:3:\"url\";s:51:\"https://wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/WPB077.mp3\";s:6:\"length\";s:1:\"0\";s:4:\"type\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43611:\"\n<p>Explore the WordPress Data Liberation project in this exclusive behind-the-scenes episode discussing WordPress migrations. Joining us is WordPress Executive Director Josepha Haden Chomphosy, along with special guest and sponsored contributor Jordan Gillman. Together, they&#8217;ll look at how the project is expanding opportunities to benefit from the freedom and flexibility WordPress offers. Don&#8217;t miss this enlightening discussion!</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Credits</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Host:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chanthaboune/\">Josepha Haden Chomphosy</a><br>Guest:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jordesign/\">Jordan Gillman</a><br>Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dustinhartzler/\">Dustin Hartzler</a><br>Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiarce/\">Javier Arce</a><br>Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjmcsherry/\">Brett McSherry</a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/eidolonnight/\">Nicholas Garofalo</a><br>Song: Fearless First by Kevin MacLeod</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Notes</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2023/04/13/idea-translate-wordpress-org-tour/\">Idea: translate.wordpress.org tour</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/\">WordPress Playground</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/data-liberation/\">Want to get involved with Data Liberation?</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/wordpress/data-liberation\">GitHub &#8211; Data Liberation</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/chat/\">Making WordPress Slack</a> &#8211; <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C069AKUBPHB\">data-liberation channel</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Small List of Big Things</strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/tickets/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">WordCamp US 2024 Tickets are now on Sale</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/download/releases/6-5/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">WordPress 6.5 Available to Download</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/04/08/dropping-support-for-php-7-1/\">Dropping support for PHP 7.0 and 7.1</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Have a question you&#8217;d like answered? Submit them to&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:wpbriefing@WordPress.org\">WPBriefing@WordPress.org</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<span id=\"more-17205\"></span>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:00]&nbsp;<strong>Josepha:</strong>&nbsp;Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project, some insight into the community that supports it, and get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Here we go!&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:28] (Intro Music)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:40] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Today, I want to talk about the Data Liberation project that we first introduced at State of the Word. It&#8217;s a very big project with a lot of philosophical underpinning. So today, I have with me Jordan Gillman, who&#8217;s going to help us dig in a little bit deeper.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jordan, welcome to the show. It&#8217;s so great to have you here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:57] <strong>Jordan:</strong> Thank you. It&#8217;s lovely to be here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:59] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Before we get started, why don&#8217;t you tell us a little bit about yourself? Like what parts of the WordPress project you contribute to, and how long you&#8217;ve been hanging around in open source?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:09] <strong>Jordan:</strong> Yeah, beautiful. I would love to. My name is Jordan. I live on the east coast of Australia, about an hour out of Sydney—about 10 minutes from the beach, which is a pretty great place to live. My relationship with WordPress began 19 or 18 years ago, I guess. I was tinkering with Movable Type, and they changed their license.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I went, I need to find something that&#8217;s free. And at that point, I had no idea what open source was. I just knew that I could use this WordPress platform for free to you know, tinker around and build websites. At the time, I was a graphic designer and, so web stuff was just fun. But gradually, that kind of took over, and I ended up doing a lot of front-end development and eventually freelancing for about ten years, building WordPress sites for churches and schools and kind of non-profit organizations like that. And through that, I&#8217;ve also then ended up doing some support for WordPress and landed being lucky enough now to be sponsored to contribute full-time into the WordPress project. I do a lot of work with the support team, so working in the public forums, particularly on core WordPress plugins and themes like Gutenberg and bundled themes, Twenty Twenty-Four.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:15] <strong>Jordan:</strong> But also working with the team itself, trying to make sure the forums are a nice place for people to hang out and answer questions and get their questions answered. And I also help out with a few other things around the place. I have an eye on the work the plugins team&#8217;s doing, working with the WordPress Foundation on a few different things. I&#8217;m lucky to have my fingers in a few pies but the biggest pie at the moment I have is the Data Liberation project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:36] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yeah. So let&#8217;s talk about that. We&#8217;re going to give everyone a quick like starting line. If, for some reason, you have not read or seen anything about the WordPress project plans so far in the last four months, you may not know what the Data Liberation project is, and that&#8217;s fine, too. Because Jordan and I are here to help you understand what it is. But, the Data Liberation project is something that Matt introduced to the project at State of the Word last year in December. And you, Jordan, are the one who are really helping us to take this project into a space where we have everything that we need, all the kind of tools and guides that users will need in order to do what exactly? Like, let&#8217;s go through what this Data Liberation project is from your standpoint and what made you excited to work on it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:27] <strong>Jordan:</strong> Thank you. Yeah, so the general idea of the Data Liberation project is it should be super duper easy for anyone to bring their site to WordPress. That&#8217;s the first main part of it, is that regardless of the platform you are on currently, be it something that&#8217;s pretty open, be it something that&#8217;s really kind of walls and closed, be it a social media platform, another web building platform, it should be really easy to bring your content over to a WordPress site, because once it&#8217;s in a WordPress site, it&#8217;s essentially free. You can then take it and do what you want with it once it&#8217;s in WordPress, but we want to make it as easy as possible to get it here, basically.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:03] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Free as in liberated, not free as in like, now the stuff that was in your mind has no value.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:10] <strong>Jordan:</strong> Yeah, free as in liberated, free as in you own it and can do what you want with it. So that&#8217;s a big part of it. It&#8217;s, let&#8217;s get, make it easier for people to come to WordPress. I think it&#8217;s also important that if we&#8217;re talking about Data Liberation and freedom of content and democratizing publishing, that also means we make it easier for people to take their content from WordPress and use it somewhere else if that&#8217;s the decision that they make. And there&#8217;s some moves we can make to make that easier and nicer for people as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:37] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, recently, we just finished up an outreach period where we were making sure that we were talking to, like, folks in the community and anyone, anyone who uses WordPress that wanted to talk to us about what they needed, what they were hoping for, what issues, what pain points they&#8217;ve had when they were looking at site migrations.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, what, to the best of your knowledge at the moment, like what are the big themes that you got out of that feedback loop? Out of that outreach?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:08] <strong>Jordan:</strong> Yeah, thank you. That was really enjoyable, actually. I was lucky enough to, I got to speak to a bunch of people in person at WordCamp Asia, which was great. We&#8217;d done some, some online, did a hallway hangout, and we&#8217;ve had a survey out for a while to folks predominantly kind of in the hosting agency freelancer space. So, folks who are working with end users who are often the ones doing migrations. We got a lot of feedback about WordPress to WordPress migration and the challenges of different hosting platforms and access from users and a bunch of information, which is useful and interesting but not immediately relevant to the comparison to migrating to WordPress from another platform entirely.<br><br>But at the same time, talking to particularly agencies who do a lot of big-scale migrations, there&#8217;s a lot of challenges just when it comes to, for starters, getting the content out of the platform. Some platforms are kind of helpful, and they&#8217;ll even provide a WordPress formatted export. For every one of those, there are&#8230;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:03] <strong><strong>Josepha:</strong> </strong>That&#8217;s very helpful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:05] <strong>Jordan:</strong> Yeah, those are super helpful. For every one of those there are probably two or three who aren&#8217;t as helpful, and you start to resort to tricks with, you know, manually exporting databases or getting RSS feeds and trying to convert them, or a lot of agencies said, &#8220;You know what? Often, we end up just copying and pasting page by page from the source site into a brand-new WordPress site.&#8221;<br><br>[00:06:27] <strong>Jordan:</strong> So, there&#8217;s challenges about the access to the content. There&#8217;s lots of challenges around getting the content from the shape of one platform into WordPress. What constitutes a page? What constitutes a post? How do we handle all of the extra metadata of images and dates and taxonomies, and anything else that might be associated with a blob of content in one platform?<br><br>How do we translate that into the way WordPress likes to handle those things? And particularly taking that to another level, even just bringing it into the Block Editor? It was great to hear how many people are just migrating straight to the Block Editor like they want the content in blocks, which is wonderful to hear.<br><br>[00:07:05] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yay!<br><br>[00:07:05] <strong>Jordan:</strong> But there are challenges. I know it&#8217;s great. But there are some, there are challenges with that and getting it to kind of format the way they expect, when it comes in particularly because there&#8217;s some kind of functional challenges with that in validating the way the content comes in because it all happens client side in the browser. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s hard to do that in big batches. So, there was some really great feedback around all of those kinds of places. It was really interesting to see how much of it centers around that getting the content and then getting the content, and yeah, for the agencies I spoke to, they do a lot of trial and error of, you know, custom scripts, and let&#8217;s try it. Oh, that did this. Let&#8217;s try again with a few tweaks. So I&#8217;m excited to see how we can kind of make that easier for them and, you know, maybe get it happening first time.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:49] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yeah, absolutely. It has been a long time since I migrated any sites personally, but I remember the first time that I tried to migrate a site. So, I was on Xanga before Xanga was on WordPress, and I remember that when I was like, I can&#8217;t figure out this WordPress thing, but I think I need some stuff in it so that, like, I know what it&#8217;s going to look like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:11] <strong>Josepha:</strong> I know what to move around cause I didn&#8217;t know the names for anything in, in CSS or HTML. Like I didn&#8217;t know what to look for in the code, but if I had a piece of content in it, I could be like, find the content in the code and then move that. And so I was like, I&#8217;m going to export everything because there was an export option in Xanga. And move it into WordPress, and WordPress was like if you can manage to get it out of Xanga, super easy to get it in. But it was actually really difficult to figure out how to get it out. And fortunately, I&#8217;d only been writing on it for like four years, three, four years at that point. So there wasn&#8217;t like, a huge amount of content, but also, I was a pretty prolific writer. I was a bad writer, but the only way to get better at things you&#8217;re bad at is to do it a lot. So, I did a lot of bad writing for three or four years. And I think that in the end, I did, like, just pay some service to scrape everything that was public on it, and then go through and get the private things and pull it out later.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:08] <strong>Josepha:</strong> I think later on down the road, I did an actual like full migration when it was easier to get it done and got all the content out, including like drafts and private posts and things. So that&#8217;s good. But yeah, it was really difficult then. And then, like, we have the blocks now that are supposed to help get a little bit more consistency in the way that you can move content in and out of a WordPress site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And is that something that we are then focusing on with the Data Liberation project? Is that something that&#8217;s being done in concert with our Gutenberg plugin, or like how are we accounting for that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:46] <strong>Jordan:</strong> That is a great question. The way things are looking at the moment, having come out of this feedback and the way we&#8217;re looking at going forward that, that work on getting content coming into blocks is going to be a really, really major part of Data Liberation. And it kind of sits in the middle of things to my mind.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:01] <strong>Jordan:</strong> The improvements that we can make with handling the way content is transformed into blocks gives us the potential of wins in a lot of places. So, as long as we can get to the content, this work on HTML to blocks for a better, lack of a better way of putting it, gives us wins with importing from another platform because we can take the content in whatever form it is, turn it into blocks in the post editor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It gives us wins with migrating from classic editor because, similarly, we can take the HTML of the classic editor generates and turn it into blocks. That already kind of happens, but there&#8217;s definitely some work that we can do to keep improving that. It gives us potential wins around the spaces of moving from between proprietary builders and block libraries and things. Because if we start to have a better-standardized set of ways to handle HTML into blocks. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Then, you can essentially move from whatever form your content is in into, you know, core native blocks in the editor. So, I think work there is going to be really important because it gives us a foundation to aim for from whatever the migration is happening from.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:09] <strong>Jordan:</strong> So, there&#8217;ll be some work there. There&#8217;s already work happening on the HTML API. Like, ongoingly and regularly and so we&#8217;ll be talking to those folks. There&#8217;s obviously going to be a lot of overlap with the work within Gutenberg as well, which is doing you know, parsing of content into blocks. So, it&#8217;s going to take a lot of collaboration and a lot of work from everyone, but I&#8217;m really excited because if we can get that foundational platform of transforming HTML into blocks really, really smooth, then what we can do is we can, you know, activate contributors in the community say, we&#8217;ve got this part figured out. If you can get it to here, it&#8217;s going to come in beautifully. So what we want your help with is to say, how do I get out of this platform to a format that we can do the rest? So, hopefully, we&#8217;re getting a common flow for a big part of that important migration process. And then we can throw it open to others to say, &#8220;You&#8217;ve got expertise with this platform. That&#8217;s excellent. Can you get us to here? And we&#8217;ll take it from there.&#8221; And maybe we&#8217;ll get some wins by doing that work in parallel, and we&#8217;ll really start to see some movement.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:13] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And speaking of the, we&#8217;ll take it from there. I know that also, in addition to the work that you are doing with Data Liberation and that is happening on the Gutenberg side and WordPress core in general, we also have a little bit of work happening on the after you get it to here point.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, the folks over at Playground have been doing a bit of research about how to use the guides and tools that are in the Data Liberation repo. To run all of that through Playground so that you can not only like import it, but you can put it into Playground and check it before you launch it in someplace else, which I think is a great user-facing, like, super important thing for an everyday user to be able to have at their fingertips that way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But then also the tour plugin that was built, I think specifically for the Polyglots team, is where we are looking at using, and I can&#8217;t remember which little project we&#8217;re doing some research on to make this possible, but we&#8217;re looking at taking that tour plugin and making it so that anyone can build a tour on anyone&#8217;s version of something in a browser so that you can just say, okay, so I did these things. I got it to here as you requested. I&#8217;m moving it to here. But now that I have got it into WordPress, what are the literal buttons I have to press in order to make sure it&#8217;s live? What do I literally have to press in order to make sure that I&#8217;m in the right time zone? Like, things like that. And we tested it on Wix, and it was able to work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:40] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Not that we&#8217;re trying to get anyone to Wix. But on the subject of, like, getting things out of WordPress and into someone else, that sounds counterintuitive for folks, like, you&#8217;re here listening to a WordPress podcast, and we&#8217;re talking about how and why we want to make it easier for people to get their content to us, of course, but then also, if needed, get it out of a version of WordPress and either into a different version of WordPress with a new host or, whatever.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Or if this is not your long-term destination, which we think it will be once you figure us out, but like, if it&#8217;s not, like, how to get out of it, too. So, from your perspective, how does that fit with the basic philosophies of open source or of WordPress in general?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:24] <strong>Jordan:</strong> Yeah, thank you. If I may, there&#8217;s a couple of things I wanted to touch on from what you&#8217;ve said. First of all the other work that is going on in the project at the moment that you mentioned, the tour guide and the Playground, I think both of those are going to be super important to the approach we take to Data Liberation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I wanted to elaborate just a little bit on the Playground because I&#8217;m particularly excited about the potential that gives for two particular scenarios two particular use cases for migration. One is, where I&#8217;ve already set up a WordPress site, I&#8217;ve got the theme that I&#8217;d like, and I&#8217;ve got some, you know, some plugins, maybe I&#8217;ve got a little bit there, but I want to import content, but I want to check how it is the potential for the Playground to make essentially a staging copy of my site and migrate the content into that staging copy so I can see how it lands in my chosen theme and check everything out and then go, yep, that looks great. And apply it. That&#8217;s great for it&#8217;s safe. You can check how it looks before it&#8217;s, you know, committed. So that&#8217;s brilliant. I&#8217;m excited about that. I&#8217;m also excited about the potential it has for people who don&#8217;t know WordPress, or don&#8217;t have a WordPress site, or they don&#8217;t have a host, they don&#8217;t have anything.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:30] <strong>Jordan:</strong> But if they can say, I want to see how this would go in WordPress. Playground, through some platform, somewhere, will allow them to just have an immediate in-browser preview of what their site would look like on WordPress. And if they like it, we then move them. We help them find a host. We help them export that in a way that they can use, but it helps the people who already have sites.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I think, more importantly, it helps those who don&#8217;t have a site yet. And they don&#8217;t have to set up an empty WordPress install in order to start migrating. They can just get into it.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:01] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And also, you don&#8217;t have to, like know who your host needs to be before you can take a look at the back end of a WordPress site and see if it makes sense to you. Like I think that that is a huge, huge win on behalf of users, current users, and future users of WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s the try before you buy. Come kick our tires without having to find a server. If you all don&#8217;t know what we&#8217;re talking about, if you have not heard of Playground yet, you can go to playground.WordPress.net and give it a try. It&#8217;s a one-click, serverless local version of WordPress that you can test out themes on and plugins, and just like put all your data into all your content into, and pretty soon also be able to export or just load directly onto the host of your choice. It&#8217;s really, really cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:44] <strong>Jordan:</strong> It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s pretty much magic, I think.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:47] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yes, I remember the first hackathon where we took it because we took it basically on a hackathon roadshow for six months. I remember the first one we took it to. Routinely, we could get developers, not me, routinely, Adam Zieliński could get a developer to do the thing, and they&#8217;d be like, I can do it if you&#8217;re next to me telling me what to do, but it&#8217;s literal magic. I don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s happening. And he was like, okay, I&#8217;ll come explain it to you. And like, he was using English, but also I was like, that is still magic. I&#8217;m so glad someone understands it. It&#8217;s brilliant.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:18] <strong>Jordan:</strong> Yeah, so the Playground I&#8217;m super excited by. I think it&#8217;s going to be really important. The tour stuff the tour functionality is going to be really important as well. Because on some level, We&#8217;re going to have to wrap all of this work on improving HTML to blocks, the process of taking an export file and importing it into WordPress, the process of telling people how to get the content, all that&#8217;s going to have to be ideally wrapped up in a nice user-friendly way so that users aren&#8217;t having to, you know, read plain text articles and then going and installing a plugin and all of those kinds of things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think the potential for the tours is we may have some kind of wrapper plugin or something which will detect the platform of your existing site if you put the URL in, and it will start walking you through the steps. So, part of that might be action you need to take on your existing platform, and we have some of that information already in the guides on the Data Liberation site at WordPress.org/data-liberation. That information is already there, but I&#8217;m hoping that we can start pulling those guides into the WP Admin so you just get walked through it while you&#8217;re there. And we can start using the tour functionality to really specifically pinpoint: you need to go here, now you can do this, go and click this, and just walk users through that migration process a little bit more neatly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:37] <strong>Jordan:</strong> I&#8217;m really excited that we&#8217;re going to be able to utilize a lot of these existing projects that are exciting and happening at the moment. And I think, ideally, they&#8217;re all going to make it much easier for users to not have to jump through so many hoops. And the hoops that they do have to jump through, we can hold their hand while they do it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:54] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yeah, absolutely. Create safe scaffolding for fun, I used to say.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:59] <strong>Jordan:</strong> So those are the two projects existing that are happening at the moment that I&#8217;m excited about rolling into and working with for the Data Liberation work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:07] <strong>Jordan:</strong> You also asked about the getting content back out, which is something that I&#8217;m particularly passionate about, I suppose. Which may be ironic when a lot of the aim of this project is to get people into WordPress. But I&#8217;m a really firm believer that if our mission is to democratize publishing, then that doesn&#8217;t mean just get everyone onto WordPress and go, yes, now you&#8217;re trapped. It&#8217;s like the Hotel California, you can never leave. If we&#8217;re going to be, you know, fully all in on democratizing publishing, then that means giving folks the freedom to take their content to do with it, whatever they want. It&#8217;s fair to say at the moment that that is possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you can export your content from WordPress. We don&#8217;t hang onto it. We don&#8217;t lock it down. You can take it. At the moment, the format that you get that content in has some limitations. It&#8217;s fair to say it doesn&#8217;t handle bringing the media of your site particularly well unless you&#8217;re turning it into another WordPress site somewhere else.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, the export functionality is very, very focused at the moment on migration to another host, or to a local site, or to another WordPress installation, basically. But if you want to use that content for something else, maybe another platform. Maybe you just want to have a copy of your blog posts that you can.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:17] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Print it into a book.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:18] <strong>Jordan:</strong> Yeah, to put into a book. Maybe you want to put it on a thumb drive and put it in a lockbox somewhere. Maybe you want some kind of hundred-year archive of your intellectual property that you&#8217;ve written and created. And so I think we&#8217;ve got some room to make improvements there. Not only to the way we provide content for other platforms to pick up and bring in but also just in the ways that we provide content to users who just really want to have a physical, digital copy of what they&#8217;ve created.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There are some challenges at the moment when you get an export, if you&#8217;ve got shortcodes in your content, if you&#8217;ve got content that&#8217;s generated by plugins, all kinds of dynamic content that is great when it&#8217;s a website, and WordPress is wonderful. And there&#8217;s all of these options, but if you take an export, you have references to those functions, and you have references to those shortcodes, which aren&#8217;t actually fully realized. So I think there&#8217;s some room for us to investigate what does a better export for other platforms look like and what does a better export for &#8220;I want to print it out or turn it into a book or just have a static version of that&#8221; content look like. And so I&#8217;m particularly excited about that, even though it&#8217;s kind of, bring it in, and we want to let them get it out. But that&#8217;s part of the whole liberation of data, I suppose, is, you know, the freedom to do with it what you want.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:40] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yes, absolutely. And everything that increases freedom on the open web, I think we are in favor of. So, I don&#8217;t know if you follow many, like WordPress futurists, our people who are out there saying, if only WordPress had these additional 2,500 hours worth of work, then we could do this with it. Like, I don&#8217;t know if you follow a lot of them.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:02] <strong>Josepha:</strong> But, a lot of them look at that thing that Matt said, like, I want to say, five years ago about WordPress becoming the operating system of the web and putting some thought into what would be required to make that possible. And when we look at composable CMSs, like the option to have something that is a framework and a core of what you are doing in your digital experience of the web. And making it possible to add anything to it required.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think that also the work that we&#8217;re doing with Data Liberation to provide a little bit more consistency and just standardization of the way that content comes in and out, I think, can only help with that potential future implementation of WordPress as the operating system for the web so that you have this basic place where you hold and manage all your content and also not only does WordPress cooperate nicely with all these other tools and applications that you can put on top of it but also all of the content has standard conversational touch points and so everything moves quickly in and out including the dynamic content that is maybe being created inside your WordPress core itself. I think that is also a really important not primary focus, but certainly future-like, if only we could get to that state kind of focus.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:31] <strong>Josepha:</strong> I&#8217;m really interested. I think that the Data Liberation project is big, and I know that we expected primarily only new contributors to work on it, but honestly, we know that&#8217;s not the case. It&#8217;s you&#8217;re working on old WordPress in here and so not necessarily new contributors. But I think that you&#8217;re right that the place for new contributors to help us is saying like we can get the content to here, we can get the data to here, and then we need help getting it into WordPress or help getting it into something else.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, as like a last question here, or if you have things to add to that, and then I can do last question.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:04] <strong>Jordan:</strong> Okay, so to loop back to your conversation about futurists and moving content and stuff, I am really excited about this idea that the open web at the moment, I think, is really, really exciting. I just started mucking around with federating my content in the fediverse. Again, recently, I tried it a little while ago and really struggled, but I&#8217;ve just started again, and it&#8217;s sitting really comfortably with me, and it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s feeling like it&#8217;s a great time for posting and owning your content, and then syndicating it elsewhere. I have seen a couple of really interesting conversations about what you were saying about, like I&#8217;ve seen the conversations in the past about, you know, operating system of the web, but also some talk and ideas recently about what would it look like if we stored all of our data in a WordPress instance?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What if all of my photos aren&#8217;t on Instagram? They are on my WordPress site. What if I pull in my Fitbit or my Strava information and just store it in WordPress so that I can do with it what I want once it&#8217;s there? What if I, I don&#8217;t know, what if I pull in kind of all of my different sources of data and I, and I house them in WordPress and then I can do with them what they want, would do with them what I want.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:08] <strong>Jordan:</strong> And that is when the Data Liberation stuff becomes especially important because if it&#8217;s your everything, you want to take your everything somewhere else. But I&#8217;m really excited for kind of all of that kind of space at the moment and giving people the freedom to own that data and when they create stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In actual fact, this is one of the things that you said in your talk at WordCamp Asia, which has really stuck with me was, and I can&#8217;t remember the exact phrase, but you said if you&#8217;re going to do all of this work of creating something, you may as well do it somewhere where you own it and can keep it. And that, for me, is just such a strong driver for getting people onto WordPress. Particularly from, at the moment, social media platforms. I&#8217;ve got two young daughters who are just getting to the age where they&#8217;re creating videos at home, which aren&#8217;t being published anywhere, but they&#8217;re starting to. They&#8217;ve got friends who are doing YouTube channels, and they&#8217;ve got friends on Instagram.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I&#8217;m looking at all of that going, I get the urge to create, and I get the urge to publish, but I want them to have an alternative to do all of that so that in five years&#8217; time, ten years time, whatever it is, when they go, wow, I did all of this stuff. I don&#8217;t want that owned by someone else. I&#8217;ve created all this, and I&#8217;m excited by the possibility of having that become a simpler, more user-friendly, accessible option to folks, where it becomes just as easy to have a WordPress site, which is your Instagram feed or a WordPress site, which is your YouTube channel or something like that, where you own it, and you just create it, and it exists. And Data Liberation means you want to take a copy of all that stuff, go for it, download an archive, you know, print out the photos, do whatever you want, but they&#8217;re yours. You have them. And so, it&#8217;s really feeling like all of that is coalescing together a little bit at the moment. I think it&#8217;s a really exciting time.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:52] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And also, like, since we&#8217;re just meandering around in philosophical spaces, two philosophical thoughts. One, I really, really feel like it&#8217;s important and valuable for people to document their lives. I have a pretty private social media presence; mostly, if you&#8217;re following me on social media, it&#8217;s because, like, you have literally been in my living room or you&#8217;re looking for WordPress news. Like that&#8217;s it. But I am constantly am documenting my life just for myself, like the folks who are listening, which is everybody, because we don&#8217;t do video, will not know that I have back behind me a shelf that is nothing but journals from my leadership journey, like from the moment that I realized that like leadership was something that was a skill and could change people&#8217;s lives like I&#8217;ve done nothing but document like I ran into this problem. This is the research that I did to figure out what was happening and not, and just like it&#8217;s really mundane things in my work now. But the work and the process of documenting, like, what&#8217;s happening for you and with you in your life and how you&#8217;re interacting with it, like, it&#8217;s just important for your mental health and for your understanding of the passage of time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:05] <strong>Josepha:</strong> But then also you were talking about, like, having a hundred-year archive of your thoughts and things, like, there will be a point at which digital information being ephemeral because it&#8217;s just electricity wandering around between screens, like, it&#8217;s prone to getting lost in the same way that physical things are prone to getting lost, but the loss is less acute in the moment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so you can accidentally lose it. And I think that that&#8217;s a real long-term not problem for society necessarily, but I think it is something from a societal standpoint where we&#8217;re gonna, at some point in the near future, realize that some of us have huge missing gaps where we, like just got rid of everything that we ever documented because we had a moment on social media or because it seemed like the only way to reclaim our content or our data or our privacy or whatever it was. And so I have a yeah. I love it. I love everything that we&#8217;re talking about, about the speculative future and WordPress. And so yes, now, well, now everybody knows all my thoughts on speculative WordPress.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:06] <strong>Jordan:</strong> There&#8217;s an interesting philosophical conversation which we&#8217;re like coming towards of what&#8217;s the equivalent in a hundred years, in 200 years of now, of the Library of Congress for philosophical and powerful writing. There is so much great stuff that is written on the web, and it just exists there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In a hundred years, when people are writing about the early work of an artist or a politician or, you know, a notable figure, we don&#8217;t, we&#8217;re not going to have handwritten letters. We&#8217;re not going to have correspondence. But we&#8217;ll have tweets. We could have blog posts. Like, it interests me to think, like, the stuff that we take for granted of historical creation is happening digitally now. And so, equivalently, in the future, how, how is that gonna get retained? How much amazing knowledge and thinking is gonna just, you know, have their hosting account expire and get removed? And it&#8217;s an, it&#8217;s it&#8217;s a big conversation, but it&#8217;s an interesting one.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:09] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yeah. Oh, what a fascinating discussion we&#8217;ve had today. So, by way of wrapping up our discussion here, why don&#8217;t you give us a sense for, like, if you are a user of WordPress and you were like, this sounds really interesting, I want to learn more, where can they go? But also, if you are someone who wants to learn how to contribute to WordPress and this sounds like a good opportunity for you to get started with that. Where can people find more about this project, about how to get started, how to contribute, all that stuff?&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:38] <strong>Jordan:</strong> If you are someone who is hearing about this for the first time and coming to it pretty fresh and haven&#8217;t been working in the WordPress community much before. The best place to go will be WordPress.org/data-liberation, that will give you not only access to the tools and guides that exist but also some information on where the development and discussion is happening.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s the easiest pathway to find your way into those conversations as well. For folks who already have a little bit of experience and, it may be contributed code or a part of discussions already. The place to go to would be github.com/WordPress/data-liberation. That&#8217;s where there&#8217;s a lot of discussion. That&#8217;s where the existing tools and guides are being managed and worked on. So, if you really want to dive in. Please come and join us there. There are discussions to be had. There are ideas to be floated. That&#8217;s where all of the boots-on-the-ground work is going to be happening.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:25] <strong>Jordan:</strong> The other great place is within the Make WordPress Slack organization. And we have a Data Liberation channel in there. That is primarily where we have higher-level conversations, and we chat about stuff, and I&#8217;m hoping that becomes a real hub for work-adjacent discussion. So GitHub is going to be for all of this is where all the work&#8217;s happening, but the Slack channel is where people can share their thoughts on what&#8217;s possible, and big picture ideas, and that kind of stuff. So those will be the three best places. WordPress.org/data-liberation for the overview, github.com/WordPress/data-liberation for where the work&#8217;s actually happening, and WordPress Slack in the Data Liberation channel. If you want to come and chat more about the possibilities and, you know, helping get the future of the open web happening.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:17] <strong>Josepha:</strong> I mean, that is an enticing call to action. We&#8217;ll have links to all of the, all three of those in the show notes, as well as links to everything that we kind of mentioned over the course of our conversation. But Jordan, thank you so much for joining me today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:32] <strong>Jordan:</strong> Thank you so much for having me. It&#8217;s been great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:34] (Music interlude)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:41] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And now it&#8217;s time for our small list of big things. I&#8217;ve got three things for you this week.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The first thing on the list is that WordCamp US tickets are now on sale. So that event is happening from September 17th through the 20th in Portland, Oregon. There are general admission tickets and micro sponsor tickets available. And if you have seen the cost of the ticket but had not quite noted the length of the event, I just want to assure you that the cost per day is the same now as it was and has been for years. It&#8217;s still that same 25-dollar-a-day ticket that you&#8217;ve got; it&#8217;s just that it&#8217;s four days long this time. We&#8217;ll have a link to the tickets in the show notes, but then also you can always wander over to us.wordcamp.org, and it&#8217;ll take you right there.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The second thing on our list is that WordPress 6.5 is here. It is named Regina. If you listened to our show last week, you know that it was a huge release and kind of has something for everyone. So, if you have not yet downloaded it to take a look at it, do that. If you have not updated your sites yet, run a backup because you should always do a backup and then get that on your site and start testing everything out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the third thing on our big list, our small list of big things, is actually that we&#8217;re looking at dropping support for PHP 7. 0 and 7. 1 in upcoming releases of WordPress this year. It should not be too disruptive a change. However, it is going to take a lot of people to test it and make sure that everything&#8217;s working as we want it to work and as we need it to work. And so while we head toward that, I want to make sure you&#8217;ve got the resources that you need to know what&#8217;s happening, where it&#8217;s happening, how it&#8217;s going to affect you. I&#8217;ll leave some resources in the show notes for that as well.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:27] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And that, my friends, is your small list of big things. Don&#8217;t forget to follow us on your favorite podcast app or subscribe directly on WordPress.org/news. You&#8217;ll get a friendly reminder whenever there&#8217;s a new episode. If you liked what you heard today, share it with a fellow WordPresser, or if you had questions about what you heard, you can share those with me at WPBriefing@WordPress.org. I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Thanks for tuning in today for the WordPress Briefing, and I&#8217;ll see you again in a couple of weeks.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:54] (Music outro)&nbsp;</p>\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17205\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:6;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:60:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:6:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"WordPress 6.5.2 Maintenance and Security Release\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:84:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/04/wordpress-6-5-2-maintenance-and-security-release/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 09 Apr 2024 22:00:18 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:2:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"Releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"Security\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17195\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:325:\"Note: Due to an issue with the initial package, WordPress 6.5.1 was not released. 6.5.2 is the first minor release for WordPress 6.5. This security and maintenance release features 2 bug fixes on Core, 12 bug fixes for the Block Editor, and 1 security fix. Because this is a security release, it is recommended that [&#8230;]\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"Aaron Jorbin\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4869:\"\n<p><strong>Note: Due to an issue with the initial package, WordPress 6.5.1 was not released. 6.5.2 is the first minor release for WordPress 6.5.</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>This security and maintenance release features <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&amp;id=!60398&amp;milestone=6.5.2&amp;group=status&amp;order=priority\">2 bug fixes on Core</a>, <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/60577\">12 bug fixes for the Block Editor</a>, and 1 security fix.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Because this is a security release, it is recommended that you update your sites immediately.</strong> Backports are also available for other major WordPress releases, 6.0 and later.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.5.2.zip\">download WordPress 6.5.2 from WordPress.org</a>, or visit your WordPress Dashboard, click “Updates”, and then click “Update Now”. If you have sites that support automatic background updates, the update process will begin automatically.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.5.2 is a short-cycle release. The next major release will be <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-6/\">version 6.6</a> and is currently planned for 16 July 2024.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Security updates included in this release</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>The security team would like to thank the following people for responsibly reporting vulnerabilities, and allowing them to be fixed in this release:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>A cross-site scripting (XSS) vulnerability affecting the Avatar block type; reported by <a href=\"https://johnblackbourn.com/\">John Blackbourn</a> of the WordPress security team. Many thanks to <a href=\"https://twitter.com/stealthcopter\">Mat Rollings</a> for assisting with the research.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Thank you to these WordPress contributors</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>This release was led by <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnbillion/\">John Blackbourn</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/isabel_brison/\">Isabel Brison</a>, and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin/\">Aaron Jorbin</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.5.2 would not have been possible without the contributions of the following people. Their asynchronous coordination to deliver maintenance and security fixes into a stable release is a testament to the power and capability of the WordPress community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"is-style-wporg-props-medium\"><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin/\">Aaron Jorbin</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wildworks\">Aki Hamano</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andraganescu\">Andrei Draganescu</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/artemiosans\">Artemio Morales</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/iCaleb\">Caleb Burks</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colind\">colind</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/talldanwp\">Daniel Richards</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ocean90\">Dominik Schilling</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fabiankaegy\">Fabian Kägy</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mamaduka\">George Mamadashvili</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gziolo\">Greg Ziółkowski</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/isabel_brison\">Isabel Brison</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb\">Jb Audras</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joemcgill\">Joe McGill</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnbillion\">John Blackbourn</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/desrosj\">Jonathan Desrosiers</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/thelovekesh\">Lovekesh Kumar</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mmaattiiaass\">Matias Benedetto</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mukesh27\">Mukesh Panchal</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/swissspidy\">Pascal Birchler</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/peterwilsoncc\">Peter Wilson</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sean212\">Sean Fisher</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/SergeyBiryukov\">Sergey Biryukov</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/coffee2code/\">Scott Reilly</a></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to contribute</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>To get involved in WordPress core development, head over to Trac, <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/report/6\">pick a ticket</a>, and join the conversation in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C02RQBWTW\">#core</a> channel. Need help? Check out the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/\">Core Contributor Handbook</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Thanks to <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnbillion/\">John Blackbourn</a>, <em><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ehtis\">Ehtisham S.</a>,</em></em> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb\">Jb Audras</a>, <em>and <em><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/angelasjin/\">Angela Jin</a></em> for proofreading.</em></p>\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17195\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:7;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:61:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:7:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:51:\"WP Briefing: Episode 76: A WordPress 6.5 Sneak Peek\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:73:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/04/episode-76-a-wordpress-6-5-sneak-peek/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 02 Apr 2024 20:18:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:2:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Podcast\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"wp-briefing\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?post_type=podcast&p=17158\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:276:\"Join WordPress Executive Director, Josepha Haden Chomphosy, as she offers an exclusive preview of the upcoming WordPress 6.5 release, accompanied by special guest Dave Smith, one of the Editor Tech leads for this release. Don’t miss this opportunity for an insider’s look!\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:9:\"enclosure\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:0:\"\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:3:{s:3:\"url\";s:51:\"https://wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/WPB076.mp3\";s:6:\"length\";s:1:\"0\";s:4:\"type\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:40462:\"\n<p>Join WordPress Executive Director, Josepha Haden Chomphosy, as she offers an exclusive preview of the upcoming WordPress 6.5 release, accompanied by special guest Dave Smith, one of the Editor Tech leads for this release. Don&#8217;t miss this opportunity for an insider&#8217;s look!</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Credits</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Host: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chanthaboune/\">Josepha Haden Chomphosy</a><br>Guest: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/get_dave/\">Dave Smith</a><br>Editor: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dustinhartzler/\">Dustin Hartzler</a><br>Logo: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiarce/\">Javier Arce</a><br>Production: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjmcsherry/\">Brett McSherry</a> and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/eidolonnight/\">Nicholas Garofalo</a><br>Song: Fearless First by Kevin MacLeod</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Notes</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/download/\">WordPress Download</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-5/#:~:text=To%20get%20involved%20in%20WordPress,leave%20feedback%20on%20the%20ticket.\">WordPress 6.5 Development Cycle</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/03/07/unblocking-wp6-5-font-library-and-synced-pattern-overrides/\">Unblocking WP6.5 – Font Library and Synced Pattern Overrides</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/block-editor/reference-guides/packages/packages-dataviews/\">Data Views</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/07/12/admin-design/\">WP-Admin Redesign</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/59166\">Font Library</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/02/29/an-introduction-to-block-based-mega-menus/\">An Introduction to Block-Based Mega Menus</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/daveonwp\">Dave on WP</a>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySyJRYAbU_M\">These TINY Link Editing CHANGES Just Made WORDPRESS 6.5 So Much Better</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/03/04/interactivity-api-dev-note/\">Interactivity API in 6.5</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2024/01/13/early-opportunities-to-test-wordpress-6-5/\">Opportunities to Test WordPress 6.5</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Small List of Big Things</strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/03/08/asia-meetup-revival-project-2024/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Asia Meetup Revival Project 2024</a> </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/meetings/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Upcoming WordPress Meetings</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2024/03/20/making-a-wordpress-media-corps/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Making a WordPress Media Corps</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Have a question you’d like answered? Submit them to&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:wpbriefing@WordPress.org\">WPBriefing@WordPress.org</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<span id=\"more-17158\"></span>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project, some insight into the community that supports it, and get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Here we go!&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:28] (Intro Music)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:39] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Dave, I&#8217;m so excited to have you here with us today. Welcome.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:42] <strong>Dave:</strong> Thank you. I&#8217;m really excited to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:46] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yeah. So before we get much further, how about you tell us a little bit about what you do on the WordPress project? And if I recall correctly, that you have a role on the release squad. So just let us know a bit about what that role is and what that looks like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:00] <strong>Dave:</strong> Sure. Absolutely. Well, obviously said I&#8217;m Dave Smith. I&#8217;m from England in the United Kingdom, and I am full-time contributor to WordPress. I&#8217;ve focused primarily on the Block Editor during that time. And I&#8217;ve been doing it for about three years now. And fortunately for me, I am sponsored by Automattic, so that allows me to contribute full-time to the project, which is fantastic.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But my history of WordPress goes back a fair way longer than that, and I used to work in agency land, and so I used WordPress for making things for a living before I worked in WordPress if you see what I mean.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:35] <strong>Josepha:</strong> I, no, I definitely understand. I also was agency before WordPress.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:40] <strong>Dave:</strong> I think it&#8217;s a common origin story, if you see what I mean. And yes, you&#8217;re absolutely right. I&#8217;ve been fortunate enough in this release, WordPress 6.5, to be the Co-editor Tech Lead. Obviously alongside my colleague which is Riad Benguella. Some of you may know him. He is the lead architect of Gutenberg. So yeah, it&#8217;s been fantastic to work alongside him.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:00] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yeah, excellent. One of these days, I&#8217;m going to get Riad on here. I think I&#8217;ve never had him on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:05] <strong>Dave:</strong> Oh, you should definitely.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:06] <strong>Josepha:</strong> He&#8217;s so kind and reasonable. And I was just gonna tell a personal anecdote about Riad, and I don&#8217;t know that it makes any sense, but I&#8217;m gonna do it anyway. I&#8217;m gonna do it anyway. I saw him at an event like right after he came back from his most recent sabbatical, and he was like, it was great being away, but also like, I had forgotten what kind of energy events like this really bring in.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And he has always struck me as an introvert, but I think maybe he&#8217;s like an outgoing introvert or something. Cause normally, like, introvert introverts are not like, this gives me so much energy. They&#8217;re like, I know that this is important work, and I&#8217;m here. And so that&#8217;s my personal anecdote about Riad, I am, gonna get him on here someday, but be that as it may, we&#8217;re delighted to have you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, 6.5 is coming out are you excited, number one?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:54] <strong>Dave:</strong> I am very excited. Yeah, it&#8217;s been a long road into this release. As you may know, well, as you do know, it&#8217;s, it was delayed by one week. That was actually, I think was, was a good decision. We&#8217;ve had a lot of work needing to go into the Font Library feature. I&#8217;ve seen a few posts saying there were bugs.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:09] <strong>Dave:</strong> I think mainly it was a decision about where to upload fonts to, which seems quite amazing when you think about it. I was talking to my wife about it the other day, and she said, really, you&#8217;re delaying a release because of where to upload things. But, yeah, this is software that runs a considerable part of the web.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So when we make these decisions about where things uploaded, we&#8217;ve got to be really confident that they are the right decisions. And so, yeah, that decision to delay the release has been good. And we&#8217;ve had an opportunity to make sure the release is fully robust and ready to go out. So yeah, I&#8217;m super excited to see it land.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:40] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yeah. I have some follow up questions about just like, how doing all of that work in public feels. But probably, we should get through the bulk of the sorts of things that people tune into this episode for, so like, let&#8217;s talk about some of the big features that are going into 6.5 so that folks have a sense for that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then we&#8217;ll take a look at just like things that you&#8217;re excited to get in, things that I&#8217;m excited to get in. And maybe like if there&#8217;s a hidden surprise for users, things that will be really beneficial to users, but they don&#8217;t quite see it yet. We can maybe cover that too, but like, what are the big things going into this release from your perspective?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:17] <strong>Dave:</strong> Sure. There&#8217;s some highlights, I think that the key highlights, and we should probably cover them. So the first one we&#8217;ve already touched on it is the Fonts Library. And this has been brewing for a while now, and it&#8217;s finally come to fruition. And it basically allows you to manage, install, and upload custom fonts for use on your website. And it&#8217;s really, really powerful. It&#8217;s, I think it&#8217;s going to really change the way people create themes and create their websites. It is unlocking a lot of power for users.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:46] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And for folks who&#8217;ve been listening to this podcast for a long time, you have heard me say for, I think, like a year, basically every release podcast where we&#8217;re looking at what&#8217;s coming up. I&#8217;m like, and this time it&#8217;s fonts. I&#8217;m so excited. And so I&#8217;m saying it again this time, &#8217;cause it&#8217;s really happening this time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:03] <strong>Dave:</strong> It&#8217;s finally here. Yeah, it&#8217;s a great feature. There&#8217;s a lot of work gone into it. It&#8217;s really, really good.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:07] <strong>Josepha:</strong> So much work. We&#8217;ve been working on it for like two or three years. And it&#8217;s at the point where like getting it out in front of people is the only way to figure out where the remaining problems will be. And it is the most scary part of any software release, I assume, the things where you&#8217;re like, this is time for people to tell us how it&#8217;s broken. Please look at it and break it for a while.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:29] <strong>Dave:</strong> Yeah, absolutely. We&#8217;ve been working on resolving any bugs that we could find, but there&#8217;s always going to be things we haven&#8217;t noticed. So yeah, we can&#8217;t wait for users to get their hands on it. Exactly. Other than fonts, we&#8217;ve also got revisions that are now in place in the Site Editor. And this is more than just undo, redo that people may be already familiar with in the editor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It actually gives you the ability to fully revert your site back to any state that you previously had it. So you could make some changes in the editor. You could completely close down your computer, go away for a week, come back. And you&#8217;ve still got the opportunity to say, &#8220;Ah, do you know what? I don&#8217;t like the way that looks. I&#8217;m just gonna; I&#8217;m gonna roll that back.&#8221; And there&#8217;s a nice UI that shows you what it will affect. And you can even roll back styles, you know, like style changes. So it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s super, super powerful. And it&#8217;s just something we&#8217;ve been waiting for for such a long time. Just, it&#8217;s fantastic to see it land.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:17] <strong>Josepha:</strong> I&#8217;m really excited about this one personally because I have been to so many meetup events with like new users being taught how to do things with WordPress. And invariably, in the last two or three years, the people who are presenting to new users are saying consistently like, &#8220;You can do any experimental thing that you feel like you need to do with your sites because there&#8217;s an undo button. WordPress wouldn&#8217;t let you do things that fully break your site.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like there is a lot of trust in our kind of like time machine, roll-it-back kind of implementations. And so I&#8217;m really excited about this one. I think that for all of our new and mid-level users. Who like, have a little bit of fear, but mostly joy around it. Like, this will only increase that and so I&#8217;m super excited for this one to go in there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:09] <strong>Dave:</strong> Yeah, it&#8217;s really nice. Other than that, the two things I wanted to touch on as well, which is we&#8217;ve got these new views now for key objects in WordPress. So things like pages, patterns, templates, and template parts in the Site Editor. You can now view these in a sort of a table layout or in a grid layout. So it gives you a much easier way to sort them, find them, filter them. And I think it points us forward to the possibilities we&#8217;ve got in the future for the editor sort of taking some parts of WP Admin and making them more accessible without having to leave the Site Editor. And it&#8217;s extremely powerful; you can search in real-time, find things very, very quickly, do all the things you&#8217;re used to from the post listing screen, but all within the Site Editor. And it&#8217;s for these key objects that you use quite a lot of the time. So I think it&#8217;s going to be really, a really great thing for users to get hold of.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:55] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Is this related to the Data Views work that we&#8217;ve been doing in the first part of the year here?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:00] <strong>Dave:</strong> Exactly that exactly. The Data Views work has been a major feed into this, and this is where we see the fruits of all that work coming to the fore for the first time. And I expect to see more of that in future releases as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:12] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yeah. For folks who are really, really watching, like, our administrative side of things, you probably are aware that we, I don&#8217;t know, I wouldn&#8217;t say that we paused the phase three roadmap for this, but I do think that we made a clear choice to get this Data Views work done first so that we could, in parallel with phase three, do a bit of work on the WP Admin redesign, the dashboard redesign, which we all know, like, we love this dashboard, but also this dashboard, it needs a sprucing up, it needs a little bit of, of polish and a little bit of 2024 style I was going to say design. I don&#8217;t know if the design folks would love if I just was like, it needs to be modernized that way, but also like it, it does, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:00] <strong>Dave:</strong> Yeah, and I mean, you know, we all know that the Site Editor is being used more and more. If you&#8217;ve got a Block theme, you&#8217;re using the Site Editor increasingly, and you&#8217;re spending less and less time sort of going between screens in WP Admin. So it makes sense that, you know, these things are accessible within that one interface of the Site Editor. So, yeah, it&#8217;s only going to be a good thing for users going forward.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:20] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yeah, absolutely. I probably should have like a whole episode about Data Views and what it&#8217;s intending to do, what it&#8217;s actually doing, what it&#8217;s going to look like as it goes because that&#8217;s such a big project. And so many things rely on it. And so, note to self and all listeners, that&#8217;s the thing that you should keep an eye out for. We&#8217;re going to get it done. But you said you had a final thing also.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:40] <strong>Dave:</strong> Yeah, I&#8217;ve got one more which is this is for our users of classic themes. We haven&#8217;t forgotten about you. Basically, we now have support for appearance tools. So in prior releases, the Block themes have got these really cool design tools like ability to set border colors, border radius, link colors, you name it. We&#8217;ve got all these tools, but they haven&#8217;t been always available to classic themes. And classic themes can use the Block Editor; they may not be using the Site Editor in the same way, but they can use the Block Editor. And we&#8217;ve not made those things available in the same way, but there&#8217;s been work going into this release to allow that to happen.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:11] <strong>Dave:</strong> So now you can opt into those if you so wish. And it is an opt-in basis. So none your themes will break out of the box if you&#8217;ve got classic theme or classic site. But it is a powerful tool to those people who are using classic themes, and that&#8217;s completely legitimate.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:26] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And so is the opt in like something that you can do for yourself or something that your developer needs to do?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:32] <strong>Dave:</strong> You would need to do it in your theme code. So you&#8217;d need to do that with PHP. So, your theme developer, if they choose to update their theme and provide support for these things. Then, they would obviously need to test their theme works with those new tools, make sure it&#8217;s ready, and then they would ship that update.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so maybe after 6.5 is released, you may see some themes incrementally adding support. My understanding at the moment is that the core themes, the Block themes, will not automatically add those straight away. I think they need more time to allow them to bed in and more time to get them ready for prime time if you see what I mean, but you know the fact that they&#8217;re there and ready means that the wider theme audience and theme developers can start taking advantage of them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:15] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Nice, nice. I have been wondering lately, this is only marginally related, but I&#8217;m gonna wonder it out loud anyway. I&#8217;ve been wondering lately if like, our classic themes, our most favorite, our most loved classic themes do need a little bit of help moving into a Block theme future. And I think that this will help. I think, on the one hand this will help, and on the other hand, like, what would it take for us to just say, and you&#8217;re not the theme person I know, but like, what would it take for us to just say, &#8220;These are our top five most favorite, most used, classic themes that we&#8217;ve got in WordPress. Let&#8217;s rebuild it in blocks and just ship the block version of it and help the classic themes users that love the design, love the look, love the features get introduced to this new block territory so that they can see that not only do they have the look, the feel, the features, but also the flexibility that comes with that and a little bit more feeling of safety as they wander around modifying themes.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:18] <strong>Josepha:</strong> I have no fear of any code changes and didn&#8217;t when I started working with WordPress, as opposed to working in WordPress, but I think that that&#8217;s not the way that that works right now. Like there&#8217;s a whole lot of like, I need to get it right-ish with folks who are using our software. And so I just wonder if that will help everybody feel a little more confident in what they&#8217;re doing, knowing they&#8217;re not going to break things because we&#8217;ve built it so you can&#8217;t.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:45] <strong>Dave:</strong> It could do, it could do. And I was just thinking as you were talking, like, do we have any themes that already do that? And, of course, we do have 2021. If you can think back that far into the mists of time, we had 2021 classic, which is that it&#8217;s called 2021, but we also 2021 blocks, which is doing very much what you&#8217;ve just described.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:03] <strong>Dave:</strong> So we haven&#8217;t pursued that for the new default themes or block themes, but, you know, it might be something to look at for onboarding if there are any of classic themes from the more distant past, you know, maybe some of those could do with a block theme equivalent just to let people on board to that experience and just feel comfortable. Yeah, interesting, interesting. You should definitely talk to the theme people about that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:23] <strong>Josepha:</strong> I&#8217;m going to. They&#8217;re going to love it. They&#8217;re going to be like, Yay! Of course! Of course! I don&#8217;t know, actually. I don&#8217;t know if anyone ever loves the things that I suggest, but that doesn&#8217;t mean that they&#8217;re not going to get suggested. I have all these ideas, and they got to come out somewhere. Okay. So do you have something that you worked on that&#8217;s not in this big list of features or that you helped people to really shepherd into the release that you think is really cool? Like, maybe it&#8217;s not going to be super visible or something, but like that you&#8217;ve personally felt was like a cool feature, excited for it to get into the release.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:53] <strong>Dave:</strong> Yeah, there are a couple of things, a couple of things at the top of mind. One of them is user-facing and one of them is more developer-facing features. So, I&#8217;ll start with the developer feature first. And this one is a change to an API. Now, that API is always a slightly intimidating word, I think, but it just means a set of tools, a standardized set of tools that developers can use to do something. And in this case, it&#8217;s the allowed blocks API.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:20] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Sounds so fun.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:21] <strong>Dave:</strong> Yeah, I know it&#8217;s riveting, isn&#8217;t it? But trust me, it does come with some benefits. So the Navigation block is a good example. It&#8217;s a block that acts as a container and it&#8217;s got child blocks. Okay. But you can only insert certain blocks. You can insert links, you can insert social icons, you can insert search. But if you want to insert, I don&#8217;t know, an Icon block, for example. You can&#8217;t do that, but you can with WordPress 6.5 because of the change to the allow box API. And what it allows you to do is say, &#8220;I want to additionally allow the following blocks to be inserted as well.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So as a developer, you can hook into this filter and change those blocks. Now, okay, so far, so good. &#8220;What&#8217;s the big deal?&#8221; you might say, well, it&#8217;s open the door, is open the door to some very, very interesting explorations. Some of which I&#8217;ve no doubt that you and your listeners would have already encountered. And one is by a colleague of mine called Nick Diego. And I think it&#8217;s on the WordPress Developer blog right now. I think he&#8217;s done a fantastic inspiration into mega menus in the navigation block. I&#8217;m someone who&#8217;s worked on the Navigation block extensively in the past, and I&#8217;m very aware of how much users want mega menus to be a part of the Navigation block.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:30] <strong>Dave:</strong> I was never convinced it was going to be something we were going to do in core, because it requires so many different things. But Nick has actually managed with this allow blocks API and some other tweaks as well to build a mega menu as a plugin for WordPress using the standard Navigation block.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think that&#8217;s just one example of the utility of this API. But for example, I mentioned that you could add icons to your Navigation block and you can&#8217;t really do that at the moment. It&#8217;s pretty powerful. It&#8217;s kind of hidden away. It&#8217;s in the release notes, but it&#8217;s not massively clear, but it does open some pretty big doors. And I think if you&#8217;re a developer or a theme author, indeed, you should you should definitely be looking into that and see what it enables for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:06] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yeah, we&#8217;ll put a link to Nick&#8217;s post in the show notes, and we&#8217;ll share it around the social spaces. So like, I hear you saying it&#8217;s buried, it&#8217;s hard to see, it won&#8217;t necessarily be exciting now, but will be exciting later, but like mega menus and sliders, those are the most contested things that people want to put on sites all the time. Like from my agency days, like when I was thinking in the mindset of a strategist, a data person, that&#8217;s what I was doing. Like, I never wanted sliders. I never wanted mega menus because it just implied that we didn&#8217;t have a decision about the sites we were making, like we had not decided the primary purpose, and also it was just hard to track, but it was always literally every single time people are like well if Amazon has it why can&#8217;t we have it? You&#8217;re like, yeah, I know, but they&#8217;re Amazon. They&#8217;re not the same like mega menus sliders. I know that from a project perspective that we&#8217;re like, that should be a theme thing. That should be in theme territory. But I think it makes sense to have in core because so many people want to be able to do it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:14] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And just because like someone like me feels like it&#8217;s not the right call for your business doesn&#8217;t mean that you shouldn&#8217;t be able to make that decision for yourself, you know, I think that&#8217;s a, I think that&#8217;s a great, a great feature to call out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:28] <strong>Dave:</strong> Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. I can look for my agency days. I can exactly imagine that sort of thing. We have a lot of people, a problem that a lot of people are facing. So it&#8217;s really important that we provide the tools to allow people to do that now. And we can always look at if it&#8217;s valid to include it in core later, then we can look at that as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. So that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s the first one I had. The second one is a little bit more user-facing. I would say it&#8217;s hidden away. But I&#8217;m not 100 percent sure it is. I mean, Josepha, how often do you create links when you&#8217;re working with WordPress?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:58] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Like every time that I&#8217;m in WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:00] <strong>Dave:</strong> Yeah, exactly. Same here. I do it all the time, right? And a lot of people do. And for a long while, contributors to the editor have been sort of collecting and collating the feedback that&#8217;s come in from people about their frustrations with the built in link interface in the Block Editor. So if you&#8217;re creating a hyperlink to, you know, hyperlink to another page or, you know, you&#8217;re going to link to Nick&#8217;s mega menu article, you&#8217;re going to be doing that a lot, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s something that people do when they&#8217;re creating content in WordPress. And so we worked a lot to refine that with a contributor who, who you may know, Rich Tabor. Who&#8217;s also, I think, on the release squad as well. An influencer in the WordPress space as well. He spent a lot of time looking at the UX and myself and a number of other contributors have spent a lot of time in this release refining that. And I think it&#8217;s surprisingly difficult to get right, but I think we&#8217;ve, I think we&#8217;ve made some nice improvements to that will be nice quality of life for people who, to do this sort of content creation quite a lot.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So there&#8217;s things like now when you create the link for the first time, it remains open on the initial creation of the link. So that means you can quickly then easily adjust the link. I mean, it seems obvious, doesn&#8217;t it? Yeah, but it&#8217;s not happening. It just used to just automatically close, and the people are like, &#8220;Hey, I wanted to make more adjustments.&nbsp;&#8220;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:08] <strong>Josepha:</strong> I wasn&#8217;t done yet.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:10] <strong>Dave:</strong> Exactly. Yeah, exactly. We&#8217;ve, we&#8217;ve streamlined the UI. We&#8217;ve removed a lot of clutter, but we&#8217;ve also added some useful tools, like ability to copy a link and remove the link directly from the control itself. And lastly along with lots of other accessibility changes in this release. We have worked a lot on refining the implementation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that is discoverable for, for users of assistive tech because we spent a lot of time talking to core accessibility team and other people, and they were finding it very hard to perceive that the UI was there because of the way that keyboard interactions work and you&#8217;ve got the block toolbar in the way and things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We think we&#8217;ve nailed on a really good solution now that works for, not only uses assistive tech, but actually provides benefits for sighted users as well. It&#8217;s kind of difficult to talk about. I mean, I have got a video covering this on my YouTube channel, which kind of shows it in a bit more detail, but we&#8217;re happy it&#8217;s in a much better place.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:02] <strong>Dave:</strong> And yeah if people have got feedback about it, and when, when 6.5 comes out, we&#8217;re always happy to hear that. And you can go to the WordPress GitHub repository and raise an issue. And one of us will jump on it and see what we can do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:13] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And we can include a link to that video also. So like, for folks where this sounded intriguing, but they don&#8217;t quite get the concept, like video content all day, let&#8217;s pop it into our show notes. And everybody can take a look at it there. I think that&#8217;s a great idea.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:28] <strong>Dave:</strong> Great. Yeah, I appreciate that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:30] <strong>Josepha:</strong> So final question, maybe, maybe final question, final planned question. Is there anything from a user-facing perspective again that you feel has not really gotten the airtime that it needs so far?&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:44] <strong>Dave:</strong> I think there&#8217;s a lot of technical changes that have happened in this release. So it&#8217;s easy to look at those. I mean, we&#8217;ve covered quite a lot of the key ones that will be user-facing in terms of Font Library and Revisions. We&#8217;ve got things that are going to this release that enable things a lot for people to experience in the future, I think, so underlying changes like the Interactivity API becoming public. Now that&#8217;s public, plugin developers can start to make sites much more interactive on the front of the site rather than just in the editor. So I think that once 6.5 has gone in, and people have started to explore the Interactivity API in more detail, we might see more plugins offering sort of interactivity on the fronts of their sites. An example is obviously the lightbox you&#8217;ve got with images in core, but I can; there&#8217;s way more stuff that you can do with that. So we&#8217;re going to see more of that.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:28] <strong>Dave:</strong> We&#8217;ve got Block Hooks that have landed in 6.5, and this is going to open for things like ecommerce plugins and to be able to add, you know, cart blocks or log in, log out blocks to things like navigation, for example, or you might want a ability to like all your comments, and you can do that with Block Hooks and then a plugin developer can just, you know, when the plugin is enabled, they can just make it so that those things just appear on your site, but you still got control over the design.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So there&#8217;s a lot of like hidden things I think are going to uncover new features for users over time as a result of the community getting involved and changing their plugins and themes to do these take advantage of these new tools.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:07] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yeah, so the Interactivity API, obviously it has &#8220;API&#8221; on it. And so no one&#8217;s thinking, well, this is a user-facing thing. And while the API is not a user facing thing, like, I think that you&#8217;re right. That what it enables absolutely is going to be really useful and hopefully really engaging for like end-to-end users, like the users that are not listening to this podcast and they don&#8217;t know we exist, like they don&#8217;t know that WordPress has a community building it, they&#8217;re just like, it exists, there&#8217;s a software that came out of nowhere, like, I&#8217;m really excited to see how our developers in the community start to use that in their plugins and themes and get that out to end users. I&#8217;m really, really excited to see how creative they get with it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Did you have a final thing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:51] <strong>Dave:</strong> There&#8217;s a lot of design changes, I think. I mean, we can&#8217;t cover them all, obviously, in verbal form in this podcast, but some things that are just standing out to me if we look at the source of truth for, for WordPress 6.5, it is, it is big. There&#8217;s a lot in this release. But there&#8217;s some very cool things for, I don&#8217;t know, quality. I like to see them as like quality of life design design changes. Things like, if you drop an image, as a background image of a cover block, it automatically sets the overlay color for that cover block to match the most prominent color of the background image. Like things like that, they seem small, but over time, they just, you just drop that thing, and it just does it. And it&#8217;s like, this is nice. And it feels like a nice tool to use that just is intuitive. And I think there&#8217;s, we&#8217;ll see a lot of those things landing in this release that can just make the experience of working with WordPress and working in the Site Editor much, much nicer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:41] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yeah. I remember when I first ran into that particular thing, it was on the Showcase, our most recent redesign of it. We&#8217;re using that functionality in there before it was available in core. Obviously, I know, but it was really fascinating. I&#8217;m not great with color combinations. Like, I don&#8217;t have a sense for, like, oh, that&#8217;s the primary thing. That&#8217;s not. And so having that being done kind of automatically so that my stuff looks good anyway, despite what my color sense said to do or not. I thought it was great. Makes you look good as somebody who&#8217;s running a business. You don&#8217;t have to know how things work in order to have excellently functional, really beautiful things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:21] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And I think that&#8217;s a great thing about all of our releases. Obviously, everything is supposed to work that way, but like this one has a lot of really cool things like that available. I think those are really the questions that I had. Is there anything you want to make sure to share before we kind of give last thoughts and head out?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:39] <strong>Dave:</strong> Yeah, I was, I was thinking a lot about, you know, the community we&#8217;ve got with WordPress, and I think that people outside of WordPress may not really understand that how amazing this community is that we&#8217;ve got here, but I wanted to say to people like don&#8217;t shy away from contributing to WordPress. I get that, you know, people like myself are fortunate enough to be sponsored to do it. But there&#8217;s always something that people can do, even if that&#8217;s just spending like 30 minutes testing a release or donating some of your time to run one of the meetings. It can really make a difference overall. Even just filing a bug report for something you see in WordPress 6.5 or testing 6.5 before it goes out, those little things do make a big difference. And if you&#8217;re not sure where to go, then we can signpost you with links, no doubt in this, in the podcast description with where where&#8217;s to go. But yeah, I just want to encourage people to get involved, basically.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:27] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Yeah. And it&#8217;s all working out in public, like we&#8217;ve got developers, designers, marketing folks, community folks like all doing this work out where everybody can see it. And so that, I know, can look really kind of overwhelming. But I want to just highlight, like, you don&#8217;t have to know everything about what&#8217;s happening in the project in order to get involved in the project. Like every small bit of contribution toward like finding a new bug or confirming that a bug happens across other devices, other setups, things like that, like those all help make things better and keep things moving as quickly as we are able to make them move. And so, yeah, I&#8217;ll second that every little thing that you think like that won&#8217;t make a difference. It does. We can&#8217;t tell that things are broken or things are working or things are in need of some care unless you highlight those for us. And this is the best way to do it is to show up and give 30 minutes to send out a group testing invite to your meetup group or whatever it is that you all have been thinking you should do, like, this is your sign. You can do it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:34] <strong>Dave:</strong> Everyone should get involved if they can.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:37] <strong>Josepha:</strong> I agree. I agree. Dave, this has been such an excellent conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:42] <strong>Dave:</strong> Oh, thank you very much. It&#8217;s a pleasure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:43] (Music interlude)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:49] <strong>Josepha:</strong> What an interesting release we&#8217;ve got coming out this week. I&#8217;m so glad you all made it this far in the pod, and now it&#8217;s time for our small list of big things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:00] <strong>Josepha:</strong> First up, following up on the WordPress meetup reactivation project that we had in 2022, we aim to revive some meetup groups in big cities that are inactive or help the local WordPress community that are not yet part of our meetup chapter program to join our program. There is a post out on the community P2 on the community site. That is titled Asia Meetup Revival Project 2024. I&#8217;ll leave a link to that in the show notes if you want to read more about that and figure out how to get involved.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And speaking of getting involved, we have roughly a million meetings. Because it&#8217;s a new month, we&#8217;re in April now. New month, new opportunities. There are a lot of things happening in April. We will be coming out of a major release, obviously, and so there will be some minor release follow up to do. There will be a lot of discussion about what&#8217;s coming next, what&#8217;s in trunk, what&#8217;s not in trunk. But also a lot of work being done around our next big major events, our next big major training initiatives. There&#8217;s just so much happening. Spring is a time when we are looking at stuff that&#8217;s new, what we want to invest in, what we want to grow. And so if you have not attended one in a while or even at all if you&#8217;ve never attended a meeting in the community, then this is a great time to start and join your fellow community members trying to make WordPress better every day.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:23] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And then the final thing on our small list of big things is I am looking at helping to shift the focus of our WordPress marketing community. We&#8217;ve had a bit of a struggle over the years to figure out what our primary focus and our primary impact can be. So there&#8217;s a post up called &#8216;Making a WordPress Media Corps&#8217;. It&#8217;s gotten quite a bit of attention, and I do really think that it has a lot of potential for solving some of the issues that we have and kind of getting some quick wins into our recent history of that team so that we can move forward confidently together. So pop on over, give it a read, share your thoughts. And if you are one of these qualified media partners, also let us know.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:08] <strong>Josepha:</strong> That, my friends, is your small list of big things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Don&#8217;t forget to follow us on your favorite podcast app or subscribe directly on WordPress.org/news. You&#8217;ll get a friendly reminder whenever there&#8217;s a new episode. And if you liked what you heard today, share it with a fellow WordPresser, or if you had questions about what you heard, you can share those with me at WPBriefing@WordPress.org. I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Thank you for tuning in today for the WordPress Briefing, and I&#8217;ll see you again in a couple of weeks.&nbsp;</p>\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17158\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:8;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:66:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:6:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:26:\"WordPress 6.5 “Regina”\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:42:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/04/regina/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 02 Apr 2024 18:42:28 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:4:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"General\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"Releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:2;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3:\"6.5\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:3;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17132\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:202:\"WordPress 6.5 \"Regina\" is here! Named in honor of Regina Carter, renowned jazz violinist and educator, this release was made possible by over 700 contributors. Download WordPress 6.5 “Regina” today.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Matt Mullenweg\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:73173:\"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img fetchpriority=\"high\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Release-Edition-Inline-Image.png?resize=1024%2C683&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"WordPress 6.5 &quot;Regina&quot;\" class=\"wp-image-17178\" srcset=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Release-Edition-Inline-Image.png?resize=1024%2C683&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Release-Edition-Inline-Image.png?resize=300%2C200&amp;ssl=1 300w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Release-Edition-Inline-Image.png?resize=768%2C512&amp;ssl=1 768w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Release-Edition-Inline-Image.png?resize=1536%2C1024&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Release-Edition-Inline-Image.png?resize=2048%2C1365&amp;ssl=1 2048w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Release-Edition-Inline-Image.png?w=3000&amp;ssl=1 3000w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1000px) 100vw, 1000px\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<p>Say hello to WordPress 6.5 “Regina,” inspired by the dynamic versatility of renowned jazz violinist <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regina_Carter\">Regina Carter</a>. An award-winning artist and storied jazz educator known for transcending genre, Regina’s technical foundations in classical music and deep understanding of jazz have earned her the reputation of boldly going beyond what’s possible with the violin.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let the stunning twists and subtle turns of <a href=\"https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1DZ06evO1WEiVo?si=534335c984804713\" data-type=\"link\" data-id=\"https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1DZ06evO1WEiVo?si=534335c984804713\">Regina’s genre-bending sound</a> surprise you as you explore everything 6.5 offers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This latest version of WordPress puts more power into the details. It offers new and improved ways to fine-tune and enhance your site-building experience, letting you take control in ways that make it your own. You’ll find new ways to manage your site’s typography, more comprehensive revisions available in more places, and a collection of Site Editor updates paired with impressive performance gains to help you get things done smoother and faster.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;Regina&#8221; also marks the introduction of some breakthrough developer tools that will start transforming how you use and extend blocks to craft engaging experiences. The Interactivity API opens up a world of creative front-end possibilities, while the Block Bindings API makes dynamic connections between blocks and data seamless. These, among other developer-focused improvements and updates, are ready to help you evolve how you build with WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-layout-flex wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"https://wordpress.org/download/\">Download WordPress 6.5 &#8220;Regina&#8221;</a></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What&#8217;s inside 6.5</h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Add and manage fonts across your site</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The new Font Library puts you in control of an essential piece of your site’s design—typography—without coding or extra steps. Effortlessly install, remove, and activate local and Google Fonts across your site for any Block theme. The ability to include custom typography collections gives site creators and publishers more options when it comes to styling content.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"656\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Font-Manager-2.png?resize=1024%2C656&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17167\" srcset=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Font-Manager-2.png?resize=1024%2C656&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Font-Manager-2.png?resize=300%2C192&amp;ssl=1 300w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Font-Manager-2.png?resize=768%2C492&amp;ssl=1 768w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Font-Manager-2.png?w=1320&amp;ssl=1 1320w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1000px) 100vw, 1000px\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Get more from your revisions—including revisions for templates and template parts</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Work through creative projects with a more comprehensive picture of what’s been done—and what you can fall back on. Get details like time stamps, quick summaries, and a paginated list of all revisions. View revisions from the Style Book to see how changes impact every block. Revisions are also now available for templates and template parts.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"656\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Revisions-1.png?resize=1024%2C656&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17168\" srcset=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Revisions-1.png?resize=1024%2C656&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Revisions-1.png?resize=300%2C192&amp;ssl=1 300w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Revisions-1.png?resize=768%2C492&amp;ssl=1 768w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Revisions-1.png?w=1320&amp;ssl=1 1320w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1000px) 100vw, 1000px\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Play with enhanced background and shadow tools</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>Control the size, repeat, and focal point options for background images in Group blocks so you can explore subtle or splashy ways to add visual interest to layouts.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Set aspect ratios for Cover block images and easily add color overlays that automatically source color from your chosen image.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Add box shadow support to more block types and create layouts with visual depth, or throw a little personality into your design.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"656\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/design-tools-1.png?resize=1024%2C656&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17169\" srcset=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/design-tools-1.png?resize=1024%2C656&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/design-tools-1.png?resize=300%2C192&amp;ssl=1 300w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/design-tools-1.png?resize=768%2C492&amp;ssl=1 768w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/design-tools-1.png?w=1320&amp;ssl=1 1320w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1000px) 100vw, 1000px\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Discover new Data Views</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Every piece of your site comes with a library of information and data—now, you can find what you need quickly and organize it however you like. Data views for pages, templates, patterns, and template parts let you see data in a table or grid view, with the option to toggle fields and make bulk changes.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"656\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Data-Views-1.png?resize=1024%2C656&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17165\" srcset=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Data-Views-1.png?resize=1024%2C656&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Data-Views-1.png?resize=300%2C192&amp;ssl=1 300w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Data-Views-1.png?resize=768%2C492&amp;ssl=1 768w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/Data-Views-1.png?w=1320&amp;ssl=1 1320w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1000px) 100vw, 1000px\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Smoother drag-and-drop</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Feel the difference when you move things around, with helpful visual cues like displaced items in List View or frictionless dragging to anywhere in your workspace—from beginning to end.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"656\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/drag-and-drop-1.png?resize=1024%2C656&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17170\" srcset=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/drag-and-drop-1.png?resize=1024%2C656&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/drag-and-drop-1.png?resize=300%2C192&amp;ssl=1 300w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/drag-and-drop-1.png?resize=768%2C492&amp;ssl=1 768w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/drag-and-drop-1.png?w=1320&amp;ssl=1 1320w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1000px) 100vw, 1000px\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Improved link controls</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Create and manage links easily with a more intuitive link-building experience, like a streamlined UI and a shortcut for copying links.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"656\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/link-controls-1.png?resize=1024%2C656&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17171\" srcset=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/link-controls-1.png?resize=1024%2C656&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/link-controls-1.png?resize=300%2C192&amp;ssl=1 300w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/link-controls-1.png?resize=768%2C492&amp;ssl=1 768w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/04/link-controls-1.png?w=1320&amp;ssl=1 1320w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1000px) 100vw, 1000px\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What&#8217;s fresh for developers in 6.5</h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bring interactions to blocks with the Interactivity API</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/03/04/interactivity-api-dev-note/\">Interactivity API</a> offers developers a standardized method for building interactive front-end experiences with blocks. It simplifies the process, with fewer dependencies on external tooling, while maintaining optimal performance. Use it to create memorable user experiences, like fetching search results instantly or letting visitors interact with content in real time.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Connect blocks to custom fields or other dynamic content</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Link core block attributes to custom fields and use the value of custom fields without creating custom blocks. Powered by the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/03/06/new-feature-the-block-bindings-api/\">Block Bindings API</a>, developers can extend this capability further to connect blocks to any dynamic content—even beyond custom fields. If there’s data stored elsewhere, easily point blocks to that new source with only a few lines of code.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Add appearance tools to Classic themes</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Give designers and creators using Classic themes access to an upgraded design experience. Opt in to support for spacing, border, typography, and color options, even without using theme.json. Once support is enabled, more tools will be automatically added as they become available.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Explore improvements to the plugin experience</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s now an <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/03/05/introducing-plugin-dependencies-in-wordpress-6-5/\">easier way to manage plugin dependencies</a>. Plugin authors can supply a new <code>Requires Plugins</code> header with a comma-separated list of required plugin slugs, presenting users with links to install and activate those plugins first.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">From fast to faster: Performance updates</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>This release includes 110+ performance updates, resulting in an impressive increase in speed and efficiency across the Post Editor and Site Editor. Loading is over two times faster than in 6.4, with input processing speed up to five times faster than the previous release.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&nbsp;Translated sites see up to 25% improvement in load time for this release courtesy of <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/02/27/i18n-improvements-6-5-performant-translations/\">Performant Translations</a>. Additional performance highlights include <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/02/23/wordpress-6-5-adds-avif-support/\">AVIF image support</a> and improvements for <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/02/29/performance-improvements-for-registering-block-variations-with-callbacks/\">registering block variations with callbacks</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">A tradition of inclusion</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>This release includes more than 65 accessibility improvements across the platform, making it more accessible than ever. It contains an important fix that unblocks access to the admin submenus for screen reader users and others who navigate by keyboard. This release also adds fixes to color contrast in admin focus states, positioning of elements, and cursor focus, among many others, that help improve the WordPress experience for everyone.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Learn more about WordPress 6.5</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Check out the new&nbsp;<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/download/releases/6-5/\">WordPress 6.5 page</a>&nbsp;to learn more about the numerous enhancements and features of this release—including short demos of some of the highlighted features. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Explore <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn WordPress</a> for quick how-to videos, <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/social-learning/\">online workshops</a>, and other free resources to level up your WordPress knowledge and skills.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Check out the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/03/15/wordpress-6-5-field-guide/\">WordPress 6.5 Field Guide</a> for detailed technical information and <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/dev-notes-6-5/\">developer notes</a> to help you build with WordPress and get the most out of this release. Don’t forget to subscribe to the <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/\">Developer Blog</a> for developer updates, feature tutorials, and other helpful WordPress content from a developer perspective.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For more information about installation, file changes, fixes, and other updates, read the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/documentation/wordpress-version/version-6-5/\">6.5 release notes</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The 6.5 release squad</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Every release has many moving parts with its own triumphs and challenges. It takes a dedicated team of enthusiastic contributors to help keep things on track and moving smoothly. 6.5 is made possible by a cross-functional group of contributors, always ready to champion ideas, remove blockers, and resolve issues.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>Release Lead: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matt/\">Matt Mullenweg</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Release Coordinators: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/akshayar/\">Akshaya Rane</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/priethor/\">Héctor Prieto</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marybaum/\">Mary Baum</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Core Tech Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidbaumwald/\">David Baumwald</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/swissspidy/\">Pascal Birchler</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Editor Tech Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/get_dave/\">David Smith</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/youknowriad/\">Riad Benguella</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Core Triage Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chaion07/\">Ahmed Kabir Chaion</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb/\">Jb Audras</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rajinsharwar/\">Rajin Sharwar</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Editor Triage Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/annezazu/\">Anne McCarthy</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fabiankaegy/\">Fabian Kägy</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Design Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benjamin_zekavica/\">Benjamin Zekavica</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/richtabor/\">Rich Tabor</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Marketing and Communication Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dansoschin/\">Dan Soschin</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/laurlittle/\">Lauren Stein</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Documentation Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/estelaris/\">Estela Rueda</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/leonnugraha/\">Leonardus Nugraha</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/stevenlinx/\">Steven Lin</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Performance Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joemcgill/\">Joe McGill</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mukesh27/\">Mukesh Panchal</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Test Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oglekler/\">Olga Gleckler</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lumiblog/\">Patrick Lumumba</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/vipuljnext/\">Vipul Ghori</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Default Themes Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/poena/\">Carolina Nymark</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Thank you, contributors</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress believes in democratizing publishing and the <a href=\"https://opensource.org/osd-annotated\">freedoms that come with open source</a>. Supporting this idea is a global and diverse community of people collaborating to strengthen the software.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.5 reflects the countless efforts and passion of around 700 contributors in at least 57 countries. This release also welcomed over 150 first-time contributors!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Their collaboration delivered more than 2,500 enhancements and fixes, ensuring a stable release for all—a testament to the power and capability of the WordPress open source community.</p>\n\n\n<p class=\"is-style-wporg-props-long alignfull\"><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benniledl/\">!Benni</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/_ck_/\">_ck_</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin/\">Aaron Jorbin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aaronrobertshaw/\">Aaron Robertshaw</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/abmamun007/\">Abdullah Mamun</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/webcommsat/\">Abha Thakor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fitehal/\">Abhishek Deshpande</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/abletec/\">abletec</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/acosmin/\">acosmin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adampickering/\">Adam Pickering</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adamsilverstein/\">Adam Silverstein</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adarshposimyth/\">Adarsh Akshat</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ajmcfadyen/\">admcfajn</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adrianduffell/\">adrianduffell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chaion07/\">Ahmed Chaion</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/engahmeds3ed/\">Ahmed Saeed</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ajithrn/\">Ajith R N</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/skyakash12/\">Akash Muchandikar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wildworks/\">Aki Hamano</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/atachibana/\">Akira Tachibana</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/akmelias/\">akmelias</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wpfy/\">Akramul Hasan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/akshayar/\">Akshaya Rane</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/schlessera/\">Alain Schlesser</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alanfuller/\">Alan Fuller</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ahoereth/\">Alex</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/xknown/\">Alex Concha</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alexkingorg/\">Alex King</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/akirk/\">Alex Kirk</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ajlende/\">Alex Lende</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/viper007bond/\">Alex Mills</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alexstine/\">Alex Stine</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alexandrebuffet/\">Alexandre Buffet</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alexanderkoledov/\">AlexKole</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alh0319/\">Amber Hinds</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sabreuse/\">Amy Hendrix (sabreuse)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amykamala/\">Amy Kamala</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/anandau14/\">Anand Upadhyay</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/anlino/\">Anders Nor&#233;n</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/afercia/\">Andrea Fercia</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andraganescu/\">Andrei Draganescu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/euthelup/\">Andrei Lupu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andrewhayward/\">Andrew Hayward</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/l1nuxjedi/\">Andrew Hutchings</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nacin/\">Andrew Nacin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/norcross/\">Andrew Norcross</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/azaozz/\">Andrew Ozz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andrewserong/\">Andrew Serong</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andrewleap/\">andrewleap</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andbalashov/\">Andrii Balashov</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oandregal/\">André Maneiro</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/afragen/\">Andy Fragen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/apeatling/\">Andy Peatling</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aneeshd16/\">Aneesh Devasthale</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ankit-k-gupta/\">Ankit K Gupta</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ankitmaru/\">Ankit Panchal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/annezazu/\">Anne McCarthy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/antpb/\">Anthony Burchell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ant1busted/\">Antoine</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/antonlukin/\">Anton Lukin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/atimmer/\">Anton Timmermans</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/antonvlasenko/\">Anton Vlasenko</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lighthouse79/\">Antonella</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colomet/\">Antonio D.</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/antonisme/\">Antonis Lilis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/arena94/\">arena94</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aristath/\">Ari Stathopoulos</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/passoniate/\">Arslan Kalwar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/artemiosans/\">Artemio Morales</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/arthur791004/\">Arthur Chu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/iamarunchaitanyajami/\">Arun Chaitanya Jami</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dextorlobo/\">Arun Sharma</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ideag/\">Arunas Liuiza</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/iamasadpolash/\">Asad Polash</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ashfame/\">Ashish Kumar (Ashfame)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mohonchandra/\">Asish Chandra Mohon</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aslamdoctor/\">Aslam Doctor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audunmb/\">audunmb</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aurooba/\">Aurooba Ahmed</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/filosofo/\">Austin Matzko</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/axwax/\">axwax</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ayeshrajans/\">Ayesh Karunaratne</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/beryldlg/\">B&#233;ryl de La Grandi&#232;re</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bahia0019/\">bahia0019</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/balub/\">Balu B</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bangank36/\">bangank36</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/barry/\">Barry</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/barryhughes-1/\">Barry</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bartkalisz/\">Bart Kalisz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bartkleinreesink/\">bartkleinreesink</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/beafialho/\">Beatriz Fialho</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/beaulebens/\">Beau Lebens</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bedas/\">Beda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benharri/\">ben</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/scruffian/\">Ben Dwyer</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ubernaut/\">Ben Hansen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/husobj/\">Ben Huson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benlk/\">Ben Keith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/blobaugh/\">Ben Lobaugh (blobaugh)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/britner/\">Ben Ritner - Kadence WP</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/retlehs/\">Ben Word</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benjamingosset/\">Benjamin Gosset</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benjamin_zekavica/\">Benjamin Zekavica</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benjaminknox/\">benjaminknox</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benoitchantre/\">Benoit Chantre</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benoitfouc/\">benoitfouc</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bernhard reiter/\">Bernhard Reiter</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bernhard-reiter/\">bernhard-reiter</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/billseymour/\">billseymour</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bplv/\">Biplav</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bph/\">Birgit Pauli-Haack</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bobbingwide/\">bobbingwide</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/boonebgorges/\">Boone Gorges</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/born2webdesign/\">born2webdesign</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjorsch/\">Brad Jorsch</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bradparbs/\">Brad Parbs</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/williamsba1/\">Brad Williams</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kraftbj/\">Brandon Kraft</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/drrobotnik/\">Brandon Lavigne</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ironprogrammer/\">Brian Alexander</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bacoords/\">Brian Coords</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fischfood/\">Brian Fischer</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bgardner/\">Brian Gardner</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/masteradhoc/\">Brian Haas</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/brianhenryie/\">Brian Henry</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/brookemk/\">Brooke</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/burnuser/\">burnuser</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/icaleb/\">Caleb Burks</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ecc/\">camya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/karl94/\">Carlo Cannas</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbravobernal/\">Carlos Bravo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/carlosgprim/\">Carlos G. P.</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/poena/\">Carolina Nymark</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cenkdemir/\">cenkdemir</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cfinnberg/\">cfinnberg</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shireling/\">Chad Chadbourne</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chasedsiedu/\">chased@si.edu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mel_cha/\">chiilog (Chiaki Okamoto)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chouby/\">Chouby</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chrisdavidmiles/\">Chris David Miles</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jazzs3quence/\">Chris Reynolds</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chriscct7/\">chriscct7</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/itschristiandale/\">christian-dale</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/christopherplus/\">Christopher</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chrystl/\">Chrystl</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/codepo8/\">codepo8</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cdevroe/\">Colin Devroe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/costdev/\">Colin Stewart</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colind/\">colind</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cookiesfordevo/\">CookiesForDevo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/coreyw/\">Corey Worrell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbirdsong/\">Cory Birdsong</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/courane01/\">Courtney Robertson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/creativeslice/\">Creative Slice</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/crstauf/\">crstauf</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cwhitmore/\">Cullen Whitmore</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cu121/\">Cupid Chakma</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cvorko/\">cvorko</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/didierjm/\">cybeardjm</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cyberchicken/\">Cyberchicken</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colorful-tones/\">Damon Cook</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dansoschin/\">Dan Soschin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/danielbachhuber/\">Daniel Bachhuber</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mzaweb/\">Daniel Dvorkin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mapumba/\">Daniel K&#228;fer</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/talldanwp/\">Daniel Richards</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/schutzsmith/\">Daniel Schutzsmith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/danieldudzic/\">danieldudzic</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mte90/\">Daniele Scasciafratte</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/danieltj/\">danieltj</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nerrad/\">Darren Ethier (nerrad)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/darshitrajyaguru97/\">Darshit Rajyaguru</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/darssen/\">darssen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davecpage/\">Dave Page</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/darerodz/\">David Arenas</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dartiss/\">David Artiss</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidbaumwald/\">David Baumwald</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidbinda/\">David Biňovec</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dpcalhoun/\">David Calhoun</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dlh/\">David Herrera</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/justlevine/\">David Levine</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dglingren/\">David Lingren</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidperez/\">David Perez</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/get_dave/\">David Smith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dsas/\">Dean Sas</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/denis-de-bernardy/\">Denis de Bernardy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dingo_d/\">Denis Žoljom</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dionysous/\">Dennis Hipp</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dmsnell/\">Dennis Snell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dennysdionigi/\">Dennys Dionigi</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/derekblank/\">Derek Blank</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/valendesigns/\">Derek Herman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/derekspringer/\">Derek Springer</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/designsimply/\">designsimply</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/desrosjbot/\">Desrosj Bot</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dernin/\">Devin Curtis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dlocc/\">Devin Walker</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dharm1025/\">Dharmesh Patel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dhrumilk/\">Dhrumil Kumbhani</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dhruvishah2203/\">Dhruvi Shah</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dilipbheda/\">Dilip Bheda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dd32/\">Dion Hulse</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ocean90/\">Dominik Schilling</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dougal/\">Dougal Campbell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/drewapicture/\">Drew Jaynes</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lots0logs/\">Dustin Falgout</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/elrae/\">Earle Davies</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ehtis/\">Ehtisham Siddiqui</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ellatrix/\">Ella van Durpe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/codex-m/\">Emerson Maningo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/emirpprime/\">emirpprime</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/manooweb/\">Emmanuel Hesry</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/endymion00/\">Endymion00</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/enwikuna/\">Enwikuna</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ericlewis/\">Eric Andrew Lewis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ethitter/\">Erick Hitter</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kebbet/\">Erik</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/estelaris/\">Estela Rueda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/evanltd/\">evanltd</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fabiankaegy/\">Fabian Kägy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gaambo/\">Fabian Todt</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fabiorubioglio/\">Fabio Rubioglio</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/faisalahammad/\">Faisal Ahammad</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/faisalahmed29/\">Faisal Ahmed</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/faisal03/\">Faisal Alvi</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fanly/\">Fanly</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/feastdesignco/\">Feast Design Co.</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/felipeelia/\">Felipe Elia</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/flixos90/\">Felix Arntz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fgiannar/\">fgiannar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/flhz/\">Florent Hernandez</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/francina/\">Francesca Marano</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/francescocarlucci/\">FrancescoCarlucci</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fotodrachen/\">Frank J&#228;ger</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nexflaszlo/\">Frank Laszlo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wazeter/\">Frank Wazeter</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fushar/\">fushar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gajendrasingh/\">Gajendra Singh</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ecgan/\">Gan Eng Chin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/garibiza/\">Garbi&#241;e</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pento/\">Gary Pendergast</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gavande1/\">gavande1</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/soulseekah/\">Gennady Kovshenin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mamaduka/\">George Mamadashvili</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/georgestephanis/\">George Stephanis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gerardreches/\">Gerard Reches</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/geriux/\">Gerardo Pacheco</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/girishpanchal/\">Girish Panchal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/giuseppemazzapica-1/\">Giuseppe Mazzapica</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/glendaviesnz/\">Glen Davies</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/goldenapples/\">goldenapples</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/grantmkin/\">Grant M. Kinney</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gziolo/\">Greg Ziółkowski</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gregbenz/\">gregbenz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wido/\">Guido Scialfa</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/poran766/\">H.M. Mushfiqur Rahman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hanneslsm/\">hanneslsm</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hztyfoon/\">Hanzala Taifun</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hardik2221/\">Hardik Raval</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hareesh-pillai/\">Hareesh S</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/harshgajipara/\">Harsh Gajipara</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/harsh175/\">Harsh Patel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hasanuzzamanshamim/\">Hasanuzzaman Shamim</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/halounsbury/\">Heather Wilkins</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/muhme/\">Heiko L&#252;bbe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/helen/\">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/helgatheviking/\">HelgaTheViking</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/tejwanihemant/\">Hemant Tejwani</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kurudrive/\">Hidekazu Ishikawa</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/panchalhimani711/\">Himani Panchal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hbhalodia/\">Hit Bhalodia</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hiteshtalpada/\">Hitesh Talpada</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/h71/\">Hossein</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/howdy_mcgee/\">Howdy_McGee</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hrrarya/\">Hridoy Mozumder</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hrithikd/\">Hrithik Dalal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hlashbrooke/\">Hugh Lashbrooke</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ganon/\">Hugo Chinchilla</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hugod/\">hugod</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/huubl/\">huubl</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/huzaifaalmesbah/\">Huzaifa Al Mesbah</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/priethor/\">Héctor Prieto</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ianbelanger/\">Ian Belanger</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/iandunn/\">Ian Dunn</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/idad5/\">idad5</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/igmoweb/\">Ignacio Cruz Moreno</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ignatiusjeroe/\">ignatiusjeroe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shaampk1/\">Ihtisham Zahoor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fnpen/\">Ilya Zolotov</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/isabel_brison/\">Isabel Brison</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/iseulde/\">iseulde</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/itpathsolutions/\">IT Path Solutions</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/itecrs/\">itecrs</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ivanzhuck/\">Ivan Zhuck</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jacobcassidy/\">Jacob Cassidy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jadpm/\">jadpm</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jamescollins/\">James Collins</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/macmanx/\">James Huff</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jameskoster/\">James Koster</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/james roberts/\">James Roberts</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jamieblomerus/\">Jamie Blomerus</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/perrelet/\">Jamie Perrelet</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/janthiel/\">Jan Thiel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jane/\">jane</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/whiteshadow/\">Janis Elsts</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jsandtro/\">jansan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/japh/\">Japh</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jsnajdr/\">Jarda Snajdr</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jarednova/\">jarednova</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jason_the_adams/\">Jason Adams</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/boogah/\">Jason Cosper</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pbking/\">Jason Crist</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/coolmann/\">Jason Crouse</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jsnjohnston/\">Jason Johnston</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/madtownlems/\">Jason LeMahieu (MadtownLems)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiercasares/\">Javier Casares</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jayadevankbh/\">Jayadevan k</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jbobich/\">jbobich</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb/\">Jean-Baptiste Audras</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jffng/\">Jeff Ong</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cheffheid/\">Jeffrey de Wit</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeffpaul/\">Jeffrey Paul</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jdy68/\">Jenny Dupuy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeremyfelt/\">Jeremy Felt</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeherve/\">Jeremy Herve</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeryj/\">jeryj</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amieiro/\">Jes&#250;s Amieiro</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/luminuu/\">Jessica Lyschik</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jghazally/\">jghazally</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jipmoors/\">Jip Moors</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jivygraphics/\">jivygraphics</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jltallon/\">jltallon</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joanrodas/\">Joan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/morehawes/\">Joe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joedolson/\">Joe Dolson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joehoyle/\">Joe Hoyle</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joemcgill/\">Joe McGill</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joelcj91/\">Joel James</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joen/\">Joen Asmussen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnbillion/\">John Blackbourn</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnjamesjacoby/\">John James Jacoby</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnciacia/\">johnciacia</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jb510/\">Jon Brown</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/duck_/\">Jon Cave</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jonsurrell/\">Jon Surrell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/psykro/\">Jonathan Bossenger</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jbrinley/\">Jonathan Brinley</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/desrosj/\">Jonathan Desrosiers</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/spacedmonkey/\">Jonny Harris</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joppuyo/\">joppuyo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jordesign/\">jordesign</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorgefilipecosta/\">Jorge Costa</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorgevilchez/\">Jorge Vilchez</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jornp/\">jornp</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joefusco/\">Joseph Fusco</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chanthaboune/\">Josepha</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joshcanhelp/\">joshcanhelp</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/verygoode/\">Joshua Goode</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joshuatf/\">joshuatf</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joyously/\">Joy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jrtashjian/\">JR Tashjian</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jsmoriss/\">JS Morisset</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/juanfra/\">Juan Aldasoro</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/juanmaguitar/\">JuanMa Garrido</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/juhise/\">Juhi Saxena</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jrf/\">Juliette Reinders Folmer</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/greenshady/\">Justin Tadlock</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ashikur698/\">K M Ashikur Rahman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kadamwhite/\">K. Adam White</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kafleg/\">KafleG</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kevin940726/\">Kai Hao</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bosskhj/\">Kamrul Hasan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/karinclimber/\">Kari Anderson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/karlijnbk/\">Karlijn Bok</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/karolmanijak/\">Karol Manijak</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/thekt12/\">Karthik Thayyil</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/tadamarketing/\">Katka</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kawsaralameven/\">kawsaralameven</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ryelle/\">Kelly Choyce-Dwan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kbat82/\">Kevin Batdorf</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kevincoleman/\">Kevin Coleman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kevinwhoffman/\">Kevin Hoffman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ktaron/\">Kevin Taron</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kharisblank/\">Kharis Sulistiyono</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/khokansardar/\">Khokan Sardar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kirasong/\">Kira Schroder</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kishanjasani/\">Kishan Jasani</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kitchin/\">kitchin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kjellr/\">Kjell Reigstad</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kkmuffme/\">kkmuffme</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/knutsp/\">Knut Sparhell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/koen12344/\">Koen Reus</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/koesper/\">Koesper</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/obenland/\">Konstantin Obenland</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/krupajnanda/\">Krupa Nanda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/krupalpanchal/\">Krupal Panchal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kurtpayne/\">Kurt Payne</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kushang78/\">Kushang Tailor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kdowns/\">Kylen Downs</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/laumindproductscomau/\">lau@mindproducts.com.au</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lada7042/\">Laura Adamonis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/laurlittle/\">Lauren Stein</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wplmillet/\">Laurent MILLET</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lakshmananphp/\">Lax Mariappan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/0mirka00/\">Lena Morita</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/munizleo/\">Leo Muniz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/leonnugraha/\">Leonardus Nugraha</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lgladdy/\">Liam Gladdy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/liammcarthur/\">LiamMcArthur</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rudlinkon/\">Linkon Miyan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/liviopv/\">liviopv</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lkraav/\">lkraav</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/logikal16/\">logikal16</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/thelovekesh/\">Lovekesh Kumar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/luboslives/\">luboslives</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lucasbustamante/\">lucasbustamante</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zaguiini/\">Luis Felipe Zaguini</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/luisherranz/\">Luis Herranz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lpawlik/\">Lukas Pawlik</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wpfed/\">Lukasz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lukefiretoss/\">Luke Cavanagh</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/maartenbelmans/\">Maarten</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mrdollu/\">Madhu Dollu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/madhudollu/\">Madhu Dollu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/onemaggie/\">Maggie Cabrera</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mhimon/\">Mahbub Hasan Imon</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mahnewr/\">mahnewr</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/maahrokh/\">Mahrokh</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/malae/\">Malae</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/manfcarlo/\">manfcarlo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/manyourisms/\">manyourisms</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marc_j/\">Marc_J</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fullofcaffeine/\">Marcelo de Moraes Serpa</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mciampini/\">Marco Ciampini</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marcoevich/\">Marcoevich</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/margolisj/\">margolisj</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chaton666/\">Marie Comet</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/tyxla/\">Marin Atanasov</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/santosguillamot/\">Mario Santos</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/clorith/\">Marius L. J.</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/markhowellsmead/\">Mark Howells-Mead</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/markjaquith/\">Mark Jaquith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/markoheijnen/\">Marko Heijnen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/markoserb/\">Marko Ivanovic</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/flootr/\">Markus</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/martinkrcho/\">martin.krcho</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marybaum/\">Mary Baum</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mathewemoore/\">mathewemoore</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mmaattiiaass/\">Matias Benedetto</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matveb/\">Matias Ventura</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matiasrecondo77/\">matiasrecondo77</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/webdevmattcrom/\">Matt Cromwell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matt/\">Matt Mullenweg</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matteoenna/\">Matteo Enna</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cadic/\">Max Lyuchin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/maxpertici/\">Maxime Pertici</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mayur8991/\">Mayur Prajapati</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mhshohel/\">Md Hossain Shohel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hrshahin/\">Md HR Shahin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/devsahadat/\">Md Sahadat Husain</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/megphillips91/\">Meg Phillips</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/megane9988/\">megane9988</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/meher/\">Meher Bala</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/melchoyce/\">Mel Choyce-Dwan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/melcarthus/\">melcarthus</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/meta4/\">meta4</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/metropolis_john/\">metropolis_john</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/254volkan/\">mevolkan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wpscholar/\">Micah Wood</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mshowes/\">Michael Showes</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/czapla/\">Michal Czaplinski</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/michalooki/\">Michalooki</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mcsf/\">Miguel Fonseca</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/miguelsansegundo/\">miguelsansegundo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/miikkamakela/\">Miikka</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mbijon/\">Mike Bijon</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mikejolley/\">Mike Jolley (a11n)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mikeschinkel/\">Mike Schinkel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mikeschroder/\">Mike Schroder</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mikinc860/\">Mikin Chauhan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gonzomir/\">Milen Petrinski - Gonzo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mimitips/\">mimi</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mkismy/\">mkismy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mnydigital/\">mnydigital</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/batmoo/\">Mohammad Jangda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/boemedia/\">Monique Dubbelman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/monzuralam/\">Monzur Alam</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/man4toman/\">Morteza Geransayeh</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mreishus/\">mreishus</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mrwweb/\">mrwweb</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/seusmaniqbal/\">Muhammad Usman Iqbal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/devmuhib/\">Muhibul Haque</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mujuonly/\">mujuonly</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mukesh27/\">Mukesh Panchal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/faguni22/\">Mumtahina Faguni</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/tanjimtc71/\">Musarrat Anjum Chowdhury</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nahidkhanseo/\">Nahid Khan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/naoki0h/\">Naoki Ohashi</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/narenin/\">Narendra Sishodiya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nareshbheda/\">Naresh Bheda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nateallen/\">Nate Allen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/navjotjsingh/\">Navjot Singh</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nhrrob/\">Nazmul Hasan Robin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/neffff/\">neffff</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/neilorangepeel/\">Neil Hainsworth</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nendeb55/\">nendeb</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nerdpressteam/\">NerdPress</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ndiego/\">Nick Diego</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/celloexpressions/\">Nick Halsey</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sessioncookiemonster/\">Nick Martianov</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nickpagz/\">nickpagz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nico23/\">Nico</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nicolefurlan/\">Nicole Furlan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bgnicolepaschen/\">Nicole Paschen Caylor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nidhidhandhukiya/\">nidhidhandhukiya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nielslange/\">Niels Lange</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nihar007/\">Nihar Ranjan Das</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ntsekouras/\">Nik Tsekouras</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nko/\">Nikita</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nikmeyer/\">nikmeyer</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rabmalin/\">Nilambar Sharma</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nilovelez/\">Nilo Velez</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dhrupo/\">Niluthpal Purkayastha</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/niravsherasiya7707/\">Nirav Sherasiya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nithi22/\">Nithin John</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nithins53/\">Nithin SreeRaj</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/noahtallen/\">Noah Allen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nosilver4u/\">nosilver4u</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nvwd/\">Nowell VanHoesen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nudge/\">Nudge Themes</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nwjames/\">nwjames</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/obliviousharmony/\">obliviousharmony</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ockham/\">ockham</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oguzkocer/\">oguzkocer</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/okat/\">okat</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dargus/\">Old account</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/olegfuture/\">olegfuture</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oglekler/\">Olga Gleckler</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/paaljoachim/\">Paal Joachim Romdahl</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pablohoneyhoney/\">Pablo Honey</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pacicio/\">Pacicio</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pannelars/\">pannelars</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/partyfrikadelle/\">partyfrikadelle</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/swissspidy/\">Pascal Birchler</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/patricia70/\">Patricia BT</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lumiblog/\">Patrick Lumumba</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pbearne/\">Paul Bearne</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pbiron/\">Paul Biron</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pauldewouters/\">Paul de Wouters</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/paulkevan/\">Paul Kevan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/djpaul/\">Paul Wong-Gibbs</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pavelevap/\">pavelevap</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pbaylies/\">Peter Baylies</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/provenself/\">Peter Rubin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/westi/\">Peter Westwood</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/peterwilsoncc/\">Peter Wilson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/petitphp/\">petitphp</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/tyrannous/\">Philipp Bammes</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/philipp15b/\">Philipp15b</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/phillsav/\">Phill</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nekojonez/\">Pieterjan Deneys</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mordauk/\">Pippin Williamson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pitamdey/\">Pitam Dey</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pmeenan/\">pmeenan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/webtechpooja/\">Pooja Derashri</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pooja1210/\">Pooja N Muchandikar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pooja9712/\">pooja9712</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pouicpouic/\">pouicpouic</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pmbaldha/\">Prashant Baldha</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pratikthink/\">Pratik Kumar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pratiklondhe/\">Pratik Londhe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/freewebmentor/\">Prem Tiwari</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/presskopp/\">Presskopp</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/presstoke/\">presstoke</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/prionkor/\">prionkor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rafiq91/\">Rafiq</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rajinsharwar/\">Rajin Sharwar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rahmohn/\">Ramon Ahnert</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rcorrales/\">Ramon Corrales</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ramonopoly/\">Ramon James</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rashiguptaa/\">Rashi Gupta</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ratneshsonar/\">Ratnesh Sonar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rawrly/\">rawrly</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rcain/\">rcain</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rebasaurus/\">rebasaurus</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/tabrisrp/\">Remy Perona</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/renathoc/\">Renatho (a11n)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/renehermi/\">Rene Hermenau</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/retrofox/\">retrofox</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/youknowriad/\">Riad Benguella</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rdcoll/\">Rich Collier</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/richtabor/\">Rich Tabor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rcreators/\">Rishi Mehta</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rishishah/\">Rishi Shah</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/noisysocks/\">Robert Anderson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ravanh/\">Rolf Allard van Hagen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/room34/\">room34</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/roytanck/\">Roy Tanck</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ryan/\">Ryan Boren</a> · 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href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/salcode/\">Sal Ferrarello</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/samba45/\">samba45</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/viralsampat/\">Sampat Viral</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kim88/\">Samuel R&#252;egger</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/samuelsidler/\">Samuel Sidler</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/otto42/\">Samuel Wood (Otto)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sacerro/\">Santiago Cerro L&#243;pez</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mikachan/\">Sarah Norris</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sarathar/\">Sarath AR</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/satishprajapati/\">Satish Prajapati</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hellosatya/\">Satyam Vishwakarma (Satya)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/saxonfletcher/\">Saxon Fletcher</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/saxonafletcher/\">Saxon Fletcher</a> · <a 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Shama</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zieladam/\">zieladam</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zunaid321/\">Zunaid Amin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chesio/\">Česlav Przywara</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Over <a href=\"https://translate.wordpress.org/stats/\">70 locales have translated 90 percent</a> or more of WordPress 6.5 into their language. Community translators are working hard to ensure more translations are on their way. Thank you to everyone who helps make WordPress available in 200 languages.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Last but not least, thanks to the volunteers who contribute to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/\">support forums</a> by answering questions from WordPress users worldwide.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Get involved and contribute</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Participation in WordPress is not limited to coding. If contributing appeals to you, learning more and getting involved is easy. Discover the teams that come together to <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/\">Make WordPress</a>, and use <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/contribute/\">this interactive tool</a> to help you decide which is right for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">One more haiku</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>6.5 is here!<br>Play, interact, build better,<br>Stronger and faster.</p>\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17132\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:9;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:72:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:6:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"WordPress 6.5 Release Candidate 4\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/03/wordpress-6-5-release-candidate-4/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 28 Mar 2024 16:34:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:6:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Development\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"General\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:2;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"Releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:3;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3:\"6.5\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:4;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"development\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:5;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17136\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:214:\"WordPress 6.5 RC4 is ready for download and testing. 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My name is Nathan Wrigley. Jukebox is a podcast, which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, making it significantly easier to create WordPress websites with Playground.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today we have Adam Zielinski. Adam is the creator of WordPress Playground, a WordPress core committer, and tech editor release lead for WordPress 6.0. He works as a WordPress developer at Automattic. In his spare time, he can be found bouldering, practicing improv comedy, and playing badminton.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode, we talk about Playground, a groundbreaking project that is redefining the way we interacted with WordPress. Adam&#8217;s visionary approach to creating a seamless WordPress experience with a web browser has revolutionized how easy it is to access WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We discussed Playground&#8217;s history, from the initial frustrations that sparked the idea, to the development process that brought it to life. We gain an understanding of the profound impact Playground is having on the WordPress landscape, and its potential to shape the future of web development. It&#8217;s not often that the word profound is rightly used, but it feels appropriate here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We explore the enormous potential uses of Playground, from simplifying setup processes to enabling experimentation with plugins and themes. Adam&#8217;s vision for Playground as a catalyst for democratizing website creation, and enabling a culture of innovation within the WordPress community, is something that&#8217;s still evolving, and it&#8217;s clear that the direction that the project takes is still being figured out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This project really does change the way that WordPress can be used, and there&#8217;s so many exciting prospects for how it might shape the future of web design and development.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in hearing about cutting edge advancements reshaping the WordPress landscape, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to find out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptaverm.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Adam Zielinski.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast by Adam Zelinski. Hello Adam.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:21] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Hello Nathan. Thank you so much for having me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:23] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> He&#8217;s giving me the thumbs up. You can&#8217;t see it, but I had to practice Adam&#8217;s surname several times. And I&#8217;m going to just say it that once, because there&#8217;s a high chance I got it wrong.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:31] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> It was perfect.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Thank you so much. We&#8217;re going to talk today a little bit about a very, very exciting development in the WordPress space. You probably have caught sight of it, if you follow the WordPress project closely. It&#8217;s called Playground, and it is profoundly interesting. And if you&#8217;ve not touched it, it may be that some of the things that we&#8217;re going to talk about today will, I&#8217;m going to say, it will shock you. Because what Adam has thrown together is something truly remarkable, to help you create WordPress websites on the fly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s get into that a little bit later. Before we do that, Adam, would you just spend a moment just telling us a little bit about yourself. Your WordPress journey, where you work, where you live, whatever you like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:09] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Absolutely. So I live in Poland. I work at Automattic, I&#8217;m sponsored to work on the open source WordPress project full time. I&#8217;ve been doing software for like 20 years now. I started back in secondary school. I found this little website on the internet where you could get little geeks, just to make a website for a furniture store. Nothing, like an e-commerce store. I just, hey, we exist.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And no one there asked if I&#8217;m 13 or not, so I was able to get going like this. And also my brother, he was doing video games at the time. So I also had someone to coach me. Yeah, these days I spent my entire professional time building WordPress Playground.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I also do some bouldering. I do improv comedy. In fact, like in a couple of weeks, I go to some workshops. And then In July, there&#8217;s one musical workshop on a festival, and after that we&#8217;ll have a short performance on the main stage. So that will be my first time on a big event like that in the improv scene. So I&#8217;m as excited as nervous.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Absolutely fascinating. May I ask, do you do your comedy in your native language, or do you stray into other languages as well? Because I imagine the barrier to being funny in a different language is quite considerable, because of all the nuances and the little phrases that people use, and the quirks of the lilt, and the rise, and the fall, and all of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:28] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Yeah, I do it in Polish and in English. But in improv comedy, you don&#8217;t have to be as concerned about the little phrases, because if you play a character truthfully, and your partner on the scene plays a character that has interesting interactions with you, like with your character, the comedy is in the scene, right? Like you don&#8217;t have to try to be funny. In fact, if you try being funny, you probably won&#8217;t be. So it&#8217;s about being real.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:52] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, so you&#8217;re in character during these? Wow, honestly, I feel there&#8217;s a whole other podcast that we could have done right here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:58] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Oh yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:58] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> We&#8217;re going to drag it, kicking and screaming, back to WordPress. Thank you for your bio though. That is amazing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you are working for Automattic, and you are a full-time contributor to WordPress. Now, did you say WordPress Core? But then I also think I heard you say that you are working on Playground full-time, at the same time. So are you on Core, Playground, or both?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:19] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> I think I&#8217;m more like, way more on Playground side of things these days. So I started with the Gutenberg project, then I became a Core committer there. I was also contributing to WordPress Core. And now I am spending like virtually my entire time on Playground side of things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But this involves interacting with WordPress Core and WordPress Core teams. So these days we use Playground, for example, during the plugin review process, theme review process. There is a Gutenberg block that allows you to embed Playground in a post or WordPress page. I think it&#8217;s been recently deployed to learn.wordpress.org. Now I&#8217;m interacting with that team to get some interactive courses and learning materials online.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I haven&#8217;t committed anything to Core in a, yeah, in a couple of months. But you have to choose where to allocate your time. It&#8217;s very difficult to split your attention between multiple projects, like we just discussed that off the record.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Before we hit record, we had a conversation about shattered attention and things like that. Can I ask, when you created Playground, and obviously, dear listener, apologies, you may not know yet what it is, but we&#8217;ll just get this bit out of the way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>When you created Playground, was that a project that you were working on as a side project? Were you just doing that in your spare time, or was this something that Automattic, for example, wished to bring into existence, and so you got the job of doing that? So yeah, how did it actually begin?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:41] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> I don&#8217;t think anyone dreamt it was even possible at the time. I was just writing a technical tutorial for something in WordPress. And I wrote the lessons, and then I realised that before publishing it, I also have to write lesson number one, setup. And there it opened a Pandora box of, oh, install Docker. Oh, maybe you&#8217;re on Windows, maybe you need WSL. Oh, install, Node.js. What&#8217;s Git, right? Like, here some resources about Git.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I get so annoyed with that. I wanted to write none of it. I wanted a set up checklist that just says, click this button. And so I wondered, well, you could do this with a cloud setup, an infrastructure, right? Like, sort of like GitHub code spaces, where you spin up something in, I don&#8217;t know, like Amazon Cloud or Google Cloud.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But that costs money. That&#8217;s difficult to maintain. It&#8217;s also not that easy to set up, right? It takes time. And then you have all sorts of problems like, what if someone uploads illegal content in there? Are you hosting that now? And so I thought, well, we should be really running WordPress in the browser. Only that&#8217;s impossible, right? But I wonder, maybe it&#8217;s not impossible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I knew about this technology, WebAssembly. It was the promise of running all the regular desktop software in web browsers. I&#8217;ve been hearing about it for like 10 or 15 years, at that time maybe. So I felt like, I wonder if that went anywhere. And so I started digging and tinkering. And two weeks later, I had a very rough prototype.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A lot of things didn&#8217;t work. You sometimes got kicked out of WP Admin. You know, like styles wouldn&#8217;t load all that. It was super slow, but it worked. And my manager at the time, I think he was like preoccupied with other stuff, so he didn&#8217;t mind. When I came up with this prototype, I got very mixed reactions actually. Like some people were super amazed and like, whoa, there&#8217;s so many implications to this, and, wow, it&#8217;s magic.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But actually, most people were like, yeah, it&#8217;s a cool toy. What are we going to do with it? It has no practical uses. And it took months to get the perception of Playground further, to get people to perceive Playground as something actually revolutionary, because it absolutely is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And something that takes WordPress into so many new possible applications. It solves the most annoying problems WordPress. Setup, resetting your site, right? Like, when you want to try new plugins, everyone&#8217;s always creating new sites, and then deleting them, or resetting the same site to its original state, or previewing code changes on GitHub, I can keep going like that. But yeah, I think, did I answer your question?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:10] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, yeah. that&#8217;s great. So I&#8217;ll just paraphrase what my experience of Playground is, because we haven&#8217;t laid that foundation out. I don&#8217;t understand the underlying technology, so Adam is going to have to shepherd me through that, as we have this conversation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But from the end user&#8217;s perspective, when I&#8217;ve set up WordPress websites in the past, there&#8217;s always been some kind of interaction with a file structure. You have to download WordPress from .org in my case. And you take it from there, and you upload that, and then you create a database, and you bind the database to the wordpress.org repo that you&#8217;ve created, and then you&#8217;re off to the races. And you have to host that somewhere, and that whole process now can be done with the click of a button inside of a lot of hosting companies and so on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But there&#8217;s some kind of wall there. You either have to interact with files, or you have to pay a hosting company to make that happen. And the first time I saw a Playground, I clicked a button, and there was a WordPress website, a moment or two later. And I genuinely do mean a moment or two later, I think the time it&#8217;s taking me to say this sentence is significantly longer than the time that it takes to get your website up there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I remember I had no context around what it was. Nobody told me what was going to happen. They just said, oh, click this. So I clicked that. And I was staring at the screen thinking, what, there&#8217;s WordPress, but I didn&#8217;t have to pay for anything, I didn&#8217;t have to go anywhere, it just appeared. And then the cogs start going in my head. Where&#8217;s the database? Where&#8217;s the files? Where&#8217;s all this come from? How is this possible?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then being truly flawed by it, thinking, no, this is some kind of implementation of, as you said, WebAssembly. This is happening inside the browser. And then of course, the admiration comes in like, how did that get done? Who did that? And of course it was you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, this is the ability to install WordPress, inside the browser, at the click of a button. A fully functional WordPress site. So there&#8217;s no impediment to using it, apart from if you don&#8217;t have three seconds to wait, give up. That&#8217;s the only problem. If you don&#8217;t have three seconds to spare, then okay, fine.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay, so the technical bit I want to dig into a lot, it&#8217;s a podcast, so we won&#8217;t go right into the weeds. But, when I click that button, and I want Playground to be invoked, to have my WordPress website, broadly what&#8217;s going on? Like, there must be files somewhere. There has to be the file structure of WordPress. There has to be a database in some way, shape, or form, because that&#8217;s how it&#8217;s built? Where are they coming from? And once they&#8217;ve come from there, where are they now living?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:49] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> They all live in your browser. Playground, very broadly, is a technology to run the entire WordPress tech stack in your browser. So to run it on a server, you typically need something like, people call it LAMP stack, right? Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP. And Playground brings all these pieces into the browser, in some shape, or form.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So PHP, for example, we are running as WebAssembly. So PHP, the programming language, is a program in itself, right? Like, it&#8217;s written in C, you can look it up on GitHub, and you can build it as something you can run on a server. But now with WebAssembly, you can also build it as something you can run in JavaScript, which means the web browsers can run it, and Node.js can run it, and a lot of other environments can run it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Then the database, MySQL. We don&#8217;t run MySQL in the browser. Technically, maybe we could do that, but there&#8217;s a lot of reasons not to. Instead, we are running SQLite, and SQLite doesn&#8217;t require a separate program. It&#8217;s just a library, and it writes all your data to a file. So when you run Playground, it actually downloads a pre-populated database with WordPress already installed, so you don&#8217;t have to go through the installation wizard. All the queries, all the SQL queries go through that database.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now the syntax is a little bit different than with MySQL, and we have an entire translation layer to take MySQL queries, and express them in SQLite, and take SQLite results, and express them as something that came from MySQL.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So really the same W DB object works for interacting with the database. Then we have Apache. Normally you run a web server, and this allows you to request different pages. Now, WordPress works as a, you navigate it as a classic website, right? So we click a link, and then the URL changes in your browser bar. Which means the browser had to perform a request, ask some server somewhere, get a response, and then maybe there are images, and scripts, and styles in that response. So it has to go and fetch all these resources.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And normally you have an Apache, or Nginx, or another server software running somewhere, and the browser goes there. Obviously we don&#8217;t have that in the browser, but there&#8217;s a cool technology web browser supports these days. It&#8217;s called Service Workers. And you can intercept all HTTP requests. And it&#8217;s meant for progressive web apps, so we can run offline. But we are playing a little trick on that Service Worker. And instead of caching things, we are just rerouting that to PHP, where WordPress can serve them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Finally, in the LAMP stack you have Linux, which provides you with all the external world, right? So it allows you to allocate memory, write files, read files, interact with the network. It gives you access to all the devices on your computer. Again, like, we don&#8217;t have access to all of that in the browser, but we are shipping implementation of all these bits written in JavaScript. So we have a JavaScript file system, it&#8217;s just three objects in trench coat, right? Like, pretending to be a directory structure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We have a networking bridge that can rewrite network traffic as fetch calls. We have memory allocator, which is the compiler that turns PHP source code into WebAssembly. And so on and so forth. So it&#8217;s the entire tech stack running in the browser. And you can also ship it to so many other devices. We have a CLI tool. We have a VS Code extension. So we just installed it from the marketplace, and boom, we have a WordPress server. No dependencies at all.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ella Van Durpe, I hope I&#8217;m pronouncing that right, she built an app called Blocknotes. It&#8217;s Playground, it&#8217;s WordPress, in an iOS app, in App store. I bet you would be able to run it on your smart fridge, right? If you had enough time. So really this turns WordPress into an application engine, so to speak. You could write a WordPress plugin, bundle it as Playground, and ship it to all these places where Playground can run, which means most devices these days.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:42] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I just want to make sure that the listeners have really grasped what&#8217;s going on here. So this is WordPress purely inside the browser. Through all of the contrivances and clever things that Adam has just described, it&#8217;s all happening inside the browser. And so just dwell on that for a moment, because that is actually pretty profound.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I do wonder, when you&#8217;d been working on it for a couple of weeks, and you actually had this version working, you said it had various faults, which I guess you&#8217;ve been tackling as time has gone on. Did you get that sense of, wait, what have I done here?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, this is quite remarkable, because the stated mission of WordPress is democratise publishing. Let&#8217;s just concentrate on the word democratise there. It&#8217;s get anything into the hands of everybody. That&#8217;s really what the endeavor of the project is, get publishing into the hands of everybody.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And a big impediment to that is the experimentation part, playing with WordPress, being able to judge whether it&#8217;s a good fit for you, your business, the agency that you run, whatever. And especially for non-technical people, trying WordPress out is a bit of a faff. You could either do it on the desktop, with downloading additional software, but again, if you&#8217;re not very technical, that is a bit of a hurdle.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is a one button install, three second wait, whatever it may be. And then you&#8217;re off to the races. So, again, now that I&#8217;ve said all of that, did you get a sense of the profundity, the profound nature of what you&#8217;d built, after you&#8217;d worked for those two weeks?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:12] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Yes. I was staring at the screen, I distinctly remember thinking, this is profound. I didn&#8217;t fully understand all the implications with all the devices. WordPress as a vector for delivering apps. Maybe setting up a site, not even knowing how to code, and then pressing a button, and exporting that as something you can run on a desktop.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And by the way, we are not there today. Technology allows that we don&#8217;t have that button. But I knew this is going to change the way we think about WordPress, and the way we use it, the way we learn WordPress. But I guess I was mostly focused on things that annoyed me specifically. So maybe that tutorial, right? Oh, now I will be able to teach people without asking them to go through all these steps. Or maybe now I will be able to try out plugins, or do development environments, again, like without spending all that time. And maybe that can work on Windows.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But honestly, I feel like we&#8217;re only still scratching the surface. And I understand more and more about Playground every month, like the apps angle I just told you about. That came up I think in April, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s another idea, if you can run an app on your mobile phone. And we were also exploring synchronising data between Playgrounds and WordPresses. So maybe you would write an article in a Playground, and it&#8217;ll get published in a website somewhere. And then maybe that website could have five different copies, and they would all synchronise in real time. And I think we&#8217;re like quarters, or years away from that. But assuming we had that, maybe WordPress could power a social network app, right? Since you can run it on every device, and you can exchange data in a distributed way. There&#8217;s all sorts of wild ideas.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:48] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, so we&#8217;re back at the beginning, you&#8217;ve spent a couple of weeks building it, and you&#8217;ve got this working, functional prototype, let&#8217;s call it like that. It feels like that got picked up fairly rapidly, because then I started hearing about it, Playground, at various different points. I remember attending one of the WordPress flagship events, I can&#8217;t remember which one it was. Matt Mullenweg was on the stage, and he was just basically saying, oh, and there&#8217;s this, you know, everybody should check this out. This is pretty amazing. And I was thinking, gosh, okay, this is now a serious endeavor if it&#8217;s getting mentioned at that kind of event, that&#8217;s fascinating.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you then were able to start working on it, more or less full time. And I&#8217;m guessing that there must have been some conversation to be had there, within Automattic. People must have realised, yeah, let&#8217;s get Adam on this. We can see some blue sky in this project. We can see some useful things that we could do with it. Is that kind of what happened, that your work week got turned around and, okay, Adam, you are on Playground now?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:47] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Yeah, you got it more or less right. I&#8217;m saying more or less because, so Automattic is sort of choose your own journey type of place, where you can be in a team where you&#8217;re very directed, or you can be in a team where you&#8217;re very autonomous, right? There&#8217;s all sorts of teams out there. And I was always a free electron type of person.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I just started working on Playground. I like saying no one stopped me, that&#8217;s more of what happened. And these days, team for Playground. So there&#8217;s three of us, and it&#8217;s a very nice change. So there&#8217;s Brandon, there&#8217;s Bero, and there&#8217;s me. And, man, it&#8217;s so nice just working on this with other people, because it&#8217;s been quite a lonely journey for some time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I had support from Dennis Snell, who&#8217;s been also maintaining Playground while I was on a sabbatical. I appreciate Dennis so much, and he&#8217;s done so much good for Playground. We don&#8217;t have enough time to discuss it. At the same time, he&#8217;s also had a lot of other projects on his plate.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I was mostly trying to figure out, oh, let&#8217;s communicate about Playground. Let&#8217;s publish something. Let&#8217;s prepare a video for a State of the Word. But let&#8217;s also keep developing new features. Let&#8217;s also focus on the vision, and let&#8217;s also fix any bug people report, right? Like, I was all over the place. And these days, I feel Playground is in a much better place, in terms of focus.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>One of the things we want to do in a short term is figure out all the ways Playground can crash. We&#8217;ve seen a uptick in usage of Playground. It&#8217;s been featured on a few workshops, on learn.wordpress.org. I think Ryan Welcher featured it. Jonathan Bossenger, I think Anne McCarthy also did, and a few other people. This really inspired some folks to start using it, building blueprints for the plugin directory, to share a live demo of their plugin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And of course, when you see more users, they discover more issues in the software. So that&#8217;s what happened, and that&#8217;s fantastic because now we can fix all of that. But this also means new feature development isn&#8217;t going forward as quickly, as if Playground was already stable. But stability, building trust, releasing a high quality documentation, that&#8217;s a big priority right now. Because if the platform isn&#8217;t stable, it won&#8217;t be as useful. So that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re trying to do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I remember using it, as I said, for the first time, and pressing the button, getting my WordPress website, and there it was, everything working as you would expect, the brand new, up-to-date version of WordPress. And then closing the browser, and wondering, okay, what&#8217;s going to happen now? And at that point, that was that. Everything that I just created, was gone. So, well, that&#8217;s fine. I had no expectations beyond there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m wondering if, in the future, the disposable nature of it might be something that you are working on, so that it could persist. Let&#8217;s say that I click the button, get the WordPress Playground going, but then choose to come back to it, I don&#8217;t know, a week later, two weeks later, it&#8217;s something that I&#8217;m doing as a side project. The way that I&#8217;ve interacted with it, that would&#8217;ve been impossible. Everything is disposed of the moment you close the browser window. But just wondering if persistence was something that might even be possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:56] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Absolutely. And there&#8217;s a bunch of ways to tackle that. So right now in Playground, in the upper right corner, there&#8217;s a little button, it says like WordPress 6.5, PHP 8.3. And it allows you to change versions of WordPress current PHP, but it also allows you to change the way Playground is persisted. So the default mode is that it&#8217;s temporary, and it&#8217;s gone the moment you close your browser tab. But there&#8217;s also a browser cache mode, so then when you return to Playground website, it&#8217;ll remember your last site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And there&#8217;s also an experimental mode, that allows you to synchronise Playground to your local directory on your computer, from your web browser. So if you choose that, the entire WordPress structure will be recreated on your machine. And if you make changes in Visual Studio Code, for example, they will show up in Playground.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s also an export button, so you can download your site as a zip file. You can export it to GitHub as a pull request. That feature also exists. With pull request specifically, I&#8217;m exploring a static site collaboration workflow. So the idea is this, you have a GitHub repository, you have a lot of content in there. Maybe that&#8217;s a documentation for something, maybe that&#8217;s entire website. So you have HTML pages, you have uploads, you have some plugins. And that repo is used to create a static site, and it&#8217;s hosted somewhere.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But then you can also go to that static site, and let&#8217;s imagine it&#8217;s a documentation site. So maybe every article has a little button called Edit in Playground, and you click it, and it opens Playground with that article already loaded in the editor. You change it, you upload something, you click export to GitHub as a pull request, and boom, there it goes, there is a change proposal.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, someone else would be able to review it by clicking a button in that pull request, and loading your changes in Playground, and say, hey, good job, or, oh, there&#8217;s a typo, let me fix it. And they will just update that pull request.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:50] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That is truly fascinating. And it is just really blowing apart the very nature of what it is. Because when you first came up with it, I feel like the word Playground was just the perfect encapsulation for what it is. You know, you just mess around, and then you close it down, start something else, mess around, close it down. You&#8217;re just messing about. You just want to test out a new plugin, you want to try something new, you just want to see what the latest default WordPress theme looks like, and how you do full site editing, and all of that. You just want to have a tinker, and you just want to do it. You&#8217;ve got a little bit of time, and then you close the browser and it goes away.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it seems like the intuition here is that, you&#8217;re stepping away from Playground&#8217;s roots, if you like, of just, it&#8217;s disposable, it&#8217;s just for a bit of fun. And it&#8217;s moving into the territory of something more permanent. So not just, it can be retained and persists in the browser, but we&#8217;ve got ways of shipping this. We can take this from your Playground, we can put it up to GitHub, and then from GitHub, who knows where that could end up. You know, it could end up in a CDN somewhere as a static website, like you said, or it could do a multitude of other things. It sounds like it&#8217;s going from more Playground, to developing actual real world projects.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:04] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Yes. So that static site, for example, it could be completely static. So you could run it without any PHP hosting, so very cheaply on a CDN. But then you could go to slash WP Admin, and you could have a running Playground there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:18] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So it&#8217;s static without the static.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:21] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Yes. Perhaps block markup could replace markdown for a lot of use cases actually. Because in markdown, it&#8217;s great for simple documents, but then if you want to go beyond that, people started inventing ways of extending that. So maybe you have MDX that brings React to markdown. Maybe you have syntax extensions. I think Gutenberg repo uses some of that, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s a lot of these projects, and all these things amount to blocks essentially. Just give me more ways, more widgets in markdown, give me more things I can express, right? And with Playground, yeah, like you can express any WordPress block. Just install it in WordPress, export, use it in a post, save that content of that post, that&#8217;s your block markup. And there&#8217;s a lot of ways you can interact with it. Render it, right? You can edit it in WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But to your point, there is a development environment these days. It&#8217;s been released by wordpress.com, it&#8217;s called Studio. And it&#8217;s actually built on top of Playground, right? So we don&#8217;t need any Docker. You don&#8217;t need any virtual machines. It&#8217;s running Playground inside an Electron app, and it just works. You don&#8217;t need any dependencies. Just install it, there it goes. Maybe that same environment, with the Playground for its WordPress for Apps paradigm, right? Maybe we&#8217;ll see it on tablet at one point. With all the ways to utilise Playground, actually, I have a note, let me refresh my memory a little bit.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Alright, so if you&#8217;ve ever been to a contributor day, you&#8217;ve probably seen how difficult the setup can be, right? Just getting WordPress running on your machine for a new person, it can easily take the entire contributor day, even if you have full access to WordPress Core developers during the event. Playground can reduce that to a single step. And there can be even multiple, predefined WordPress builds, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Are you a Gutenberg developer? Are you a Core developer? Do you want to just contribute to docs? Then we could take it to a browser, right? So you wouldn&#8217;t even have to do anything locally, and you could still take advantage of Git, and pull requests, and all these workflows.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Further along, perhaps we could encapsulate some contribution workflows without ever reasoning about code, right? So I imagined a theme directory on wordpress.org. It could have Playground, where you would just build a theme, you would be able to go back to it, submit it for a review, right? If we add a code editor to that, now we can have a plugin contribution workflow.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>These days, we&#8217;re about to launch a community space for Playground Blueprints. So Blueprints are these configuration files that express an entire WordPress setup. So maybe you want a WordPress with WPCLI and a specific plugins, or maybe you want a WordPress with a so and so theme, and a bunch of content, right? Maybe that&#8217;s your site. Or maybe you want to preinstall your plugin, and configure it with a useful default content for the demo.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you can now encode that as a JSON file, and the blueprints community space, it&#8217;ll be just that. It&#8217;ll be what wordpress.org/plugin is, but for these blueprints. So everyone will be able to share a blueprint, review the blueprints that are already there, immediately launch a WordPress site from any of these blueprints. And I hope this will spark a lot of cool ideas for Playground usage. Honestly, people are teaching me so much about what you can do with Playground these days.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Someone recently mentioned this idea, they really don&#8217;t like working with PowerPoint, and there are ways of building slides in WordPress. So now I have a blueprint that turns WordPress into a slide building, presentation building program. It&#8217;s configured with the right theme, it has some slides already in it, it has an export to PDF button, and you can just start editing and then save a presentation, export it as a PDF, host it as a static site, right? If you want to share a link with the world.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I&#8217;m not even like touching on things like classroom usage, or education use cases, right? There&#8217;s a professor using Playground to teach students about building websites, and it&#8217;s very easy for them because it doesn&#8217;t require installing anything. So I think like the university computers are like locked down so you cannot install custom software, but you can open websites. So you can go to a Playground site, or this version of Playground site where you have a code editor. And you can just start hacking with a plugin, or just a setup. And then you can export it, or submit it for grading, publish what the entire class created. There&#8217;s a lot more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:44] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I mean, truly, the sky is the limit really, isn&#8217;t it? Because, again, just to take you back to that moment where you had spent two weeks on it, and there it was in its nascent form, none of this was going through your head. And now here we are a little while later, and it&#8217;s almost like, you know, you&#8217;ve got the theme repository, you&#8217;ve got the plugin repository, and I feel like we need a Playground repository. And, you know, you&#8217;ve described it as blueprints.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That just seems to have so much utility. Just different flavors of WordPress. Okay, do you want a super stripped down version of WordPress? Are you just beginning? Do you just want to look at WordPress for the first time? Click this button. Are you more experienced? Do you want to get straight into the full site editing? Okay, click this button, and you&#8217;ll be hit with that as soon as you launch it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But then of course, all of the different things, the companies who produce plugins, who would like to be able to demonstrate what their plugin does, well that, until now, required you click a button, and you connect it to some third party service that they pay for, which spins up a WordPress website with their configuration. Now, you just click a button and it&#8217;s there in the browser, and it can now come with the dependencies that it needs.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So let&#8217;s say you&#8217;re a WooCommerce plugin house, and obviously you need WooCommerce built into it. You can have that set as a dependency. So click the button, not only does our plugin come, but it&#8217;s fully configured, ready to go with WooCommerce and everything.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just so many uses. And then it feels to me, this is kind of like not really stretching the horizon very far, but it feels to me that, then the ability to be able to click a button inside of your Playground, and then take it to more traditional hosting, so that you do have something more permanent. Might be kind of useful, but from everything that you&#8217;ve said, there&#8217;s a thousand different directions, tendrils going all over the place, you know, the education space. Just a million different things. And I guess that must be one of the nice things from where you are sitting. You&#8217;re just seeing all of this interaction in a project that you built, and that must be joyous.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:49] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> It is. And, man, like there&#8217;s so many great ideas floating around in the community. Use cases I would never come up with in a million years. And I just love seeing more and more of these.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I do like the idea of being able to go to an official blueprint repository, if you like, and just sift through user submitted versions of WordPress. Let&#8217;s say you&#8217;ve just decided that you want to start selling a course online, here&#8217;s a perfectly pre-configured LMS experience for you, just so that you can see how that works. And, you know, or a shop, a WooCommerce shop, or just a regular WordPress website with full site editing, all done for you. But now we&#8217;re going to use this theme, oh, you are not happy with that one, try this Playground over here, we&#8217;ve got a different theme, but everything else is just the same.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>1,001 user submitted, varients of WordPress, and that&#8217;s never been possible. We&#8217;re always starting from, basic WordPress then build things on top of it, because of the fact that there&#8217;s a lot of work which needs to go in before your site is working. Now with all these dependencies built in, the click of a button, there it is, ready to go. Like you said, it&#8217;s profound. It really is incredibly profound.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:01] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> One more cool thing I wanted to share though, we have a plugin for WordPress. You install it, and then you go to WP Admin plugins directory, and every plugin has install now button, it has it now, but it also has preview now button. And that preview now button clones your website in Playground, installs that plugin, and opens it in a new tab, so you can see, oh, do I like using it? Would it break my website? Is it even doing what I need it do? And you don&#8217;t like it, you just close that tab, and your production site is as it was before.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:33] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I&#8217;d forgotten about that. Yeah. But if you go to wordpress.org, now there&#8217;s a button. I remember there was a little bit of a kerfuffle where, it was a few months ago, where Playground got launched on the plugin repository, and for various different reasons, dependencies largely being the thing I think, that got withdrawn. Then, I think now it is that the plugin developers need to just tick a box to say, yes please on my plugin listing, please put Playground there because that will be something that I want.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And now I would imagine the majority, so long as it works, why wouldn&#8217;t you have that? You can go and experiment. So that&#8217;s new. If you haven&#8217;t been to the wordpress.org plugin repository recently, there is now, on a lot of plugins, a button just to use Playground. Click the button, you&#8217;ll see it, you&#8217;ll be able to see it immediately, and all the wonderful things that it does.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:16] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Yeah, although that&#8217;s not what I meant.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:17] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Ah, apologies.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:19] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> What I meant is, there&#8217;s a separate plugin called the Playground. And if you install it on your WordPress site, you will get that preview button inside WP Admin, and it&#8217;ll preview that plugin a copy of your site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Wheels within wheels. It&#8217;s very meta that isn&#8217;t it? I didn&#8217;t know that existed. So you&#8217;ve got a Playground site. Inside of that Playground site, you can install the Playground plugin. I guess you could get inception going on there, couldn&#8217;t you? Playground within Playground. within Playground, all the way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:49] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Yeah, that is actually possible. So there&#8217;s a Playground Gutenberg block, and it&#8217;s in the WordPress plugin directory, and it has a preview button and it opens a Playground with that block inside Playground. So yeah, there are multiple levels.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> We&#8217;ve obviously waxed lyrical. I think it&#8217;s a fabulous project. Just what it&#8217;s going to open up in the future, who knows. I think the word profound, I think that&#8217;s the exact appropriate word at this point.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, all of this light that we&#8217;re shining on it, I presume there&#8217;s still things that you would like to fix. Things that don&#8217;t yet work as expected, that maybe some things which you&#8217;ll never be able to overcome, given the state of what browsers can do at the moment. Should we just talk about that? What are some of the limitations that you know of at the moment?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:28] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Absolutely. So not all PHP extensions are supported in the browser, and we support more every month. But not yet at the place where you would have 100%. It&#8217;ll never be 100% right? Like for example, you cannot use Curl in a web browser. You can use it in a node version of Playground.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;re just bringing in support for different image formats. So WebP and surprisingly jpeg. Png was already in there. Network is a large challenge. So WordPress would sometimes open, let me speak with a little bit more jargon. WordPress would sometimes open a TCP sockets to specific addresses, and you don&#8217;t have that API in the browser, right. You can only do fetch and few more things, but not that. So that may never be supported. Like if browsers had that, it would be large security risk. You can however do that in a node version of Playground.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The database support. I think all core features work well. And we even had a 99% of unit tests passing in Playground. But there are some plugins using MySQL features that are not yet supported. So I think one of them is select union. So we still have some work to do with the database support.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So by default Playground doesn&#8217;t have access to network, and you have to enable it in Playground options. That&#8217;s a performance thing. Playground is significantly slower with that. So just to give everyone snappy experience by default. However, we do have something going on to have networking by default and also have it being very performant. That will hopefully go away sometime soon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And honestly, like we&#8217;re learning about new limitations. Yeah, I would say like every week of every month, people come to Playground repository, they ask about their use case and someone wanted to use soap client. It&#8217;s not supported at the moment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Someone else wanted to run a real server, right? So send a link to someone, somewhere and it&#8217;s just running in your browser. So we cannot really do that at the moment. But maybe it will be possible actually in the future. Like, I&#8217;m playing with a few ideas about that. So if you use Playground and something isn&#8217;t working right, come say hi to the Meta Playground channel on WordPress org Slack, or the WordPress slash WordPress dash Playground repository on GitHub, and tell us, we may not know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:50] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I feel like you&#8217;ve created a bit of an iPhone moment with WordPress. What I mean by that was, everybody had a mobile phone prior to the iPhone, and then the iPhone came along, and then everybody really wanted an iPhone because it was so profoundly different. And it feels like you&#8217;ve done something profoundly different with WordPress, and when apps came along and suddenly, yeah, there was an iPhone, but it was an iPhone and it looked nice and everything, and then apps came along and made the iPhone more profoundly interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You&#8217;ve enabled more profoundly interesting things to be done with WordPress than could be done two years ago, and the supplying of that is crucial. But it&#8217;ll be interesting if we have this conversation in, let&#8217;s say three years time, I think the real interest will be, not necessarily the Playground bit, and forgive me, I&#8217;m not denigrating what you&#8217;ve done because it&#8217;s remarkable, but it&#8217;s what everybody will do with the Playground that you&#8217;ve built. And the unique things that they&#8217;ve created. And the hither to as yet unimagined things, which will become commonplace and normal with WordPress, that at the moment nobody&#8217;s even conceived. And you&#8217;ve hinted at a few of those now. And so you&#8217;ve genuinely stirred interest, and something novel in the WordPress space and that isn&#8217;t often happening..</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:16] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Thank you so much. I&#8217;m blushing. Yeah. truly amazing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And think that iPhone moment analogy, it&#8217;s excellent. And if you don&#8217;t mind, I&#8217;ll borrow that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:27] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> When the App Store came to the iPhone, that moment where the iPhone, which was fun and you could play songs with it, but you couldn&#8217;t do all the other things, like store your notes and sync them to the cloud and communicate with other people on chat apps.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I imagine the developer community will jump on board and come up with a thousand different ways to build on top of Playground.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:46] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> The analogy may be going further than it seems at first because every blueprint is like an app, right? You have WordPress as your vehicle for setting things up. And then you can create a slide building app, as I said earlier. But I had someone running Doom, like the video game in the Playground.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, you can build a course website with it, right? If you just pre-configure it in the correct way. We have a pull request previewer running in a couple of projects, right? You have a preview link on GitHub just posted automatically. You have plugin previewers. You have project demos. So many different things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I have a blueprint that if you run it, it doesn&#8217;t actually create a Playground you can use, but it gives you a zip file. And in that zip there is a static version of what you started with, right? So now you can not only produce different WordPress setups and website setups, but also artifacts, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maybe another blueprint could, I don&#8217;t know, render a PDF, right? And that would be another version of your slides, to keep using this example.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can embed Playground. You can ship Playground on all the devices. So I&#8217;m imagining a world where you can build a WordPress plugin, click a button, and now you have a desktop app. You have a server app. You have a front end app. You have a progressive web app. You have a phone app. You have a tablet app. You have a terminal app, right from a single code base. We don&#8217;t have that button today, but I think it&#8217;s very possible to build one.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:43:16] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It feels like the slogan is Playground, taking the friction out of using WordPress. Making that first step so much easier. No matter what your level of experience, if it&#8217;s the first time you&#8217;ve used WordPress, or if you want to do something more complicated. Just that frictionless step that you&#8217;ve created is, yeah, absolutely brilliant.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So just before we go, I know that you mentioned the Slack channel where you are hanging out. Maybe you want to mention that again, just so it&#8217;s gone into people&#8217;s heads. But also if anybody is curious, maybe there&#8217;s other places where you can help with the Playground project, but also if you&#8217;re willing, are places where people can get in touch with you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:43:52] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Absolutely. Twitter is one of them. I&#8217;m most attentive to GitHub, cause I&#8217;m spending a lot of time in the Playground repo and all the Playground related activity. So probably the easiest way to reach me is through issues and discussions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have something unrelated to the product, but just wanted to explore your use case, ping me on Twitter. There&#8217;s WordPress.org Slack, called meta-playground and that&#8217;s another good place. And also I&#8217;ll be on WordCamp EU in June. I&#8217;ll be having a talk on the main stage about WordPress Playground. So come, say hi. Watch the talk and let&#8217;s talk in person.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:44:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Nice. Thank you very much. Adam Zelensky, thank you so much for chatting to me today. I really appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:44:34] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> It&#8217;s been so lovely, naan. Thank you so much for having me.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://x.com/adamzielin\">Adam Zielinski</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Adam is the creator of WordPress Playground, a WordPress core committer, and Tech Editor release lead for WordPress 6.0. He works as a WordPress developer at Automattic and lives in Wrocław, Poland. In his spare time, he can be found bouldering, practising improv comedy, and playing badminton.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode, we talk about Playground, a groundbreaking project that is redefined the way we interact with WordPress. Adam&#8217;s visionary approach to creating a seamless WordPress experience within a web browser has revolutionised how easy it is to access WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We discuss Playground&#8217;s history, from the initial frustrations that sparked the idea, to the development process that brought it to life. We gain an understanding of the profound impact Playground is having on the WordPress landscape and its potential to shape the future of web development. It’s not often that the word profound is rightly used, but it feels appropriate here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We explore the enormous potential uses of Playground, from simplifying setup processes to enabling experimentation with plugins and themes. Adam&#8217;s vision for Playground as a catalyst for democratising website creation and enabling a culture of innovation within the WordPress community is something that’s still evolving, and it’s clear that the direction the project takes is still being figured out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This project really does change the way that WordPress can be used, and there’s so many exciting prospects for how it might shape the future of website design and development.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in hearing about cutting-edge advancements reshaping the WordPress landscape, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/playground/\">WordPress Playground</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/blueprints\">Blueprints GitHub repo</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/meta/2024/05/15/the-blueprint-gallery-share-your-wordpress-creations-with-playground/\">The Blueprint Gallery: Share your WordPress creations with Playground</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/wordpress-playground\">Playground GitHub repo</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn WordPress</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://webassembly.org/\">Web Assembly</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://apps.apple.com/za/app/blocknotes/id6450189974\">Blocknotes</a> by Ella Van Durpe</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://x.com/adamzielin\">Adam on X / Twitter</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/speaker/adam-zieliski/\">Adam&#8217;s presentation at WordCamp Europe 2024</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>The playground team:</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Dennis Snell:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://github.com/dmsnell/\">https://github.com/dmsnell/</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Brandon Payton:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://github.com/brandonpayton\">https://github.com/brandonpayton</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Bero: <a href=\"https://github.com/bgrgicak\">https://github.com/bgrgicak</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 29 May 2024 14:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:1;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"Do The Woo Community: All Things WordCamp Canada with Shanta Nathwani\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83911\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:68:\"https://dothewoo.io/all-things-wordcamp-canada-with-shanta-nathwani/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:106:\"Shanta shares the challenges, diverse initiatives, and cultural elements in preparing for WordCamp Canada.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 29 May 2024 12:27:22 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:2;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:128:\"Do The Woo Community: The WP Includes Gender Equality in WordPress Businesses Survey with Siobhan McKeown and Francesca Marano\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83888\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:125:\"https://dothewoo.io/the-wp-includes-gender-equality-in-wordpress-businesses-survey-with-siobhan-mckeown-and-francesca-marano/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:184:\"Rae Morey chats with Siobhan McKeown and Francesca Marano about the WP Includes\' initiative, the gender equality survey, upcoming presentation, personal experiences, and future impact.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 28 May 2024 08:13:51 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:3;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:10:\"Matt: WP21\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=114533\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:27:\"https://ma.tt/2024/05/wp21/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3309:\"<p>It seems like just yesterday WordPress was <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2016/05/wordpress-is-a-teenager/\">becoming a teenager</a>, and in a blink of the eye it&#8217;s now old enough to drink! 21 years since <a href=\"https://mikelittle.org/\">Mike</a> and I did the first release of WordPress, forking <a href=\"https://miche.lv/\">Michel&#8217;s</a> work on b2/cafélog.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s been many milestones and highlights along the way, and many more to come. I&#8217;ve been thinking a lot about elements that made WordPress successful in its early years that we should keep in mind as we build this year and beyond. Here&#8217;s 11 opinions:</p>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Simple things should be easy and intuitive, and complex things possible.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Blogging, commenting, and pingbacks need to be fun. Static websites are fine, but dynamic ones are better. Almost every site would be improved by having a great blog.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Wikis are amazing, and our documentation should be wiki-easy to edit.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Forums should be front and center in the community. <a href=\"https://bbpress.org/\">bbPress</a> and <a href=\"https://buddypress.org/\">BuddyPress</a> need some love.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Every plugin and theme should have all the infrastructure that we use to build WordPress itself—version control, bug trackers, forums, documentation, internationalization, chat rooms, P2, and easy pathways for contribution and community. We shouldn&#8217;t be uploading ZIPs in 2024!</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Theme previews should be great, and a wide collection of non-commercial themes with diverse aesthetics and functionality are crucial. </li>\n\n\n\n<li>We can&#8217;t over-index for guidelines and requirements. Better to have good marketplace dynamics and engineer automated feedback loops and transparency to users. Boundaries in functionality and design should be pushed. (But spam and spammy behavior deserves zero tolerance.)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Feedback loops are so important, and should scale with usage and the entire community rather than being reliant on gatekeepers.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Core should be opinionated and quirky: Easter eggs, language with personality even if it&#8217;s difficult to translate, jazzy.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Everyone developing and making decisions for software needs to use it.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>It&#8217;s important that we all do support, go to meetups and events, anything we can to stay close to regular end-users of what we make.</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<p>A bonus: <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/playground/\">Playground is going to change everything</a>. What would you add?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Fun fact: On May 27, 2003 I blogged &#8220;Working backwards, earlier tonight was great. Put&nbsp;WordPress&nbsp;out, which felt great.&#8221; as one sentence in a <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2003/05/locked-out/\">953-word entry written from the porch of my parent&#8217;s house</a> where I was accidentally locked out all night until my Dad left in the morning to go to work. Had no idea WordPress would be as big as it is. Earlier that night had set up WP for my friend Ramie Speight, and done some phone tech support for another friend Mike Tremoulet I had met through the local blogger meetup. My friends from high school all had their own domains with WP and that feedback loop was magical for shaping the software.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 27 May 2024 23:50:04 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:4;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:106:\"WordPress.org blog: WP Briefing: Episode 80: Unlocking Your WordPress Potential with Learn WordPress Tools\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?post_type=podcast&p=17278\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:108:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/05/episode-80-unlocking-your-wordpress-potential-with-learn-wordpress-tools/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14725:\"<p>Welcome to another episode of the WordPress Briefing! In this episode, your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy, delves into the incredible resources available to help you broaden your WordPress expertise. Whether you&#8217;re just starting out or looking to deepen your skillset, these tools and tutorials offer something for everyone. Join us as we explore how Learn WordPress can be your guide on the journey to mastering WordPress, providing invaluable support and community connections along the way.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Credits</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Host:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chanthaboune/\">Josepha Haden Chomphosy</a><br />Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dustinhartzler/\">Dustin Hartzler</a><br />Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiarce/\">Javier Arce</a><br />Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjmcsherry/\">Brett McSherry</a><br />Song: Fearless First by Kevin MacLeod</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Notes</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://events.wordpress.org/\">WordPress Events </a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn WordPress</a>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/online-workshops/\">Online Workshops</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorials/\">Tutorials</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/lesson-plans/\">Lesson Plans</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Small List of Big Things</strong>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/youth-teens-workshop-at-wordcamp-europe-2024/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">WordCamp Europe Youth &amp; Teen Workshop Registration is Open</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/05/03/roadmap-to-6-6/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Roadmap to WordPress 6.6</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/introducing-showcase-day/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">WordCamp US 2024 Showcase Day</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/04/08/share-your-feedback-with-meetup-com/\">Share Feedback with&nbsp;Meetup.com</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Have a question you&#8217;d like answered? Submit them to&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:wpbriefing@WordPress.org\">WPBriefing@WordPress.org</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<span id=\"more-17278\"></span>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:10] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project, some insight into the community that supports it, and get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks. I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here we go!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:28] (Intro Music)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:40] <strong>Josepha:</strong> My friends, I don&#8217;t know about where you live, but where I live, it&#8217;s graduation season. Students all across the region are either gearing down for a little bit of a brain break or gearing up for the next big adventure in their lives. And as I watch these students discover the next phases in their lives, whether it looks good or bad, whether it feels fearful or faithful, I can&#8217;t help but think back to my last big change.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:07] <strong>Josepha:</strong> The one that brought me here to WordPress. I was working in insurance at the time and investing in a side hustle. And as is often the case with side hustles, discovered that knowing something about marketing myself was going to be key. Now, this next bit, I know that a lot of you will understand immediately. After that realization, I entered a period in my life where I was learning how to invest in my hoped-for side hustle so that I could realize my hoped-for dreams while also having to succeed at the job that I was using to pay my bills.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>By some singular coincidence, I wound up being introduced to the WordPress project, where I found not only the tools it turned out I needed but also people who were willing to help me learn them. For me, during that time, the cost to get access to both the tool and that support was basically zero. Like the whole cost to me was get those WordPress people together in a room to talk about WordPress for an hour.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:04] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And that&#8217;s something that I always want to do anyway. I always want to get people together. And if what we&#8217;re talking about is WordPress, and that is what I need to learn about, then so be it. I realize that there is a little bit of privilege in that story and a whole lot of persistence. It&#8217;s not like I discovered it, and overnight, everything worked out well, and perfectly, and correctly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, all of the struggles to get what I got accomplished done aside. One of the things that I love the most about how the WordPress project has evolved over time is that we took that already low-cost, low-barrier concept and did everything in our power to take that low-cost, low-barrier and make it available to as many people as possible in as many points in their journey as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, if you&#8217;re at the start of your career or thinking about a bit of a career change, I have some resources for you. Like, stick around. But before we get to the resources, I want to make sure that you hear this. Learning WordPress things, whether that&#8217;s the software itself, or how to run a business supported by WordPress, or how to support other businesses by building them WordPress stuff, learning these skills now is an investment in who you want to be.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:20] <strong>Josepha:</strong> It&#8217;s placing a bet that&#8217;s grounded in what you think you can bring to the world before anyone else might have figured out it&#8217;s what they need in their lives. And when you do that, in WordPress, you&#8217;re accessing and hopefully one day contributing to an equitable framework that doesn&#8217;t require you to understand it in order for you to benefit from it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can do hard things, and hopefully, these resources make those hard things a little easier. I&#8217;m going to take us through a whirlwind wayfinding list. I&#8217;ll generally be focused on time required and then kind of like necessary actions or context that would be useful for you to know. But remember that your mileage may vary.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:01] <strong>Josepha:</strong> If something sounds close but not perfect, I encourage you to give it a try anyway. The worst that happens is you try something different next time. Or, in the best-case scenario, you create something that other folks also have been missing. There was something that was close for them but not perfect either, and maybe you found the thing that&#8217;s perfect for them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, here is my whirlwind wayfinding list. Let&#8217;s go. Only have one hour a week and prefer a little company in your learning? Check out a meetup event near you. You can find those listed in your dashboard or on events.WordPress.org, but frequently, they happen during the week, after work hours, sometimes they happen on the weekend, they happen like in libraries or coffee shops.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, there are a lot of different ways that these events come together, and surely, there will be something that is the sort of low-key event that you want. But if not, you can always reach out to your local chapter and see how you can get involved with that, how you can help them create a new meetup event.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:02] <strong>Josepha:</strong> The next option, if you only have an hour a week, but you actually don&#8217;t want company but still use some external support, I would check out one of our online workshops. There are cohorts for each workshop, and they&#8217;re run by facilitators so that you can learn and socialize from the comfort and safety of your own space, or if you really are super strapped for time, that can help with like not having to commute anywhere. Next up on our list, feel like you could average an hour a week, but honestly, would prefer it to be in one big chunk? Check out a WordCamp near you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Those are a little bit like the meetups but quite a bit bigger and a lot more content, a lot more learning available, and gets you into a different kind of group of people in your local area. Those happen about once a year per city or region, but if there&#8217;s not one within a comfortable traveling distance for you, it might be a good chance for you to do a mini business trip, or if you&#8217;re doing it as current career development, see if your boss, or your boss self, if you are your own boss, has a continuing education budget available for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:08] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Have 30 minutes or so a week and don&#8217;t need any external motivation? On the one hand, I am a little jealous. I sometimes need my own external motivation. But, if that&#8217;s not you, if you can just self-drive forever, then courses over on learn.WordPress.org are just about your speed. We even have a series of learning pathways in development that curate all the courses you need to achieve particular milestones.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can also help to create those. If you have been all the way through your learning journey and you&#8217;re, like, the most WordPressy WordPresser we&#8217;ve ever seen, and you just want to make sure that other people have the same opportunities you&#8217;ve had, that&#8217;s an excellent opportunity to show up and make sure that the knowledge is still available, still free, still can be accessed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And finally, if you have unpredictable time and also still comfortable being completely self-driven, We have in the WordPress ecosystem countless videos, blogs, tutorials, and a ton of content creators that are behind them that specialize in teaching WordPress basics but also leveling up existing knowledge. And if your type of existing knowledge is in the, like, gathering the network to succeed, sort of area. We even have podcasts and blogs that are dedicated to the more businessy side of WordPress, how to make this function in the WordPress ecosystem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:32] <strong>Josepha:</strong> As always, I&#8217;ll have links for everything in the show notes—just myriad links because this isn&#8217;t even all that we need to share with you today. And I&#8217;m going to say this last thing one more time because I really, really mean it like a whole, whole lot. I know it&#8217;s hard, bordering on impossible sometimes, to carve out time to learn new things. But when you&#8217;re ready to invest in yourself, I&#8217;m pretty sure that these resources will be here to support your hoped-for dreams.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:58] (Music interlude)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:05] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And that brings us now to our small list of big things. First up is speaking of learning, speaking of investing in your future. WordCamp Europe has a youth and teen workshop going on. The registration for that is still open. It is open for students aged 10 to 16. It&#8217;s gonna be a hands-on workshop. They&#8217;ll get to build their own website with WordPress and then explore some cutting-edge technology from VR to AI and learn essential internet safety skills. We&#8217;re going to be running that on June 13th. It will be in both English and Italian. I will leave a link to the registration in the show notes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the next thing on our list is pretty much related. It&#8217;s kind of related. At WordCamp US this year, we have a Showcase Day. Now, this is new to WordCamp US, and it&#8217;s all about pushing the boundaries of what WordPress can do. It will feature presentations, demos, and technical workshops for all kinds of projects, from high-profile, large-scale builds with innovative integrations to more niche creative implementations that still have a big impact. Submissions are now open for it. If you are working on something that is really cool and uses WordPress and want to show it off to the WordPress community, wander over there, submit your project; let&#8217;s take a look at it and see if we can get it into that showcase lineup, but if you are looking for inspiration about what WordPress can do, if you&#8217;re still figuring out how this can work the best for you, that&#8217;s going to be a great opportunity to look at some unusual implementations so that you can get an idea for how big this thing can get.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:43] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And just some tactical things. The next two things on my small of big things are two tactical items. One is that WordPress 6.6 is on the move; as always, we have Beta 1 scheduled pretty soon here. So, dig into our priority features. I will leave a link to the roadmap for WordPress 6.6. We&#8217;re targeting, if I recall correctly, middle of July for that release. And so it&#8217;s coming up faster than you think. And we would absolutely love for you to come in, test the Beta, tell us what&#8217;s broken so that we can fix it before it gets out. We can&#8217;t fix the things if you don&#8217;t tell us they&#8217;re broken. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:17] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And then the final thing on our small list of big things is that speaking of not being able to fix things that we don&#8217;t know are broken. So, we use meetup.com to manage all of our meetup series. Well, most of our meetup series anyway, but they are planning to invest in some product improvements, and they have asked for feedback from the WordPress community. Historically, we are one of the largest, most active communities on their platform. And so, if you could fill out the feedback form, if you&#8217;ve been to a meetup, or if you tried to find a meetup using meetup.com and did not succeed, that&#8217;s probably also relevant information. I&#8217;ll have a link to that here as well. It will go directly to their product team. And hopefully we&#8217;ll see some product improvements for the WordPress community in the future.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:01] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And that, my friends, is your small list of big things. Don&#8217;t forget to follow us, follow me on your favorite podcast app, or subscribe directly on WordPress.org/news. You&#8217;ll get a friendly reminder whenever there&#8217;s a new episode, and if you liked what you heard today, share it with a fellow WordPresser. Or, if you had questions about what you heard, you can share those with me at WPBriefing@WordPress.org. I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Thanks again, and I&#8217;ll see you in a couple of weeks.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:29] (Music outro)&nbsp;</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 27 May 2024 12:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:5;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:83:\"Do The Woo Community: The Next Gen in WordPress with Allison Dye and Sophia DeRosia\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83856\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:82:\"https://dothewoo.io/the-next-gen-in-wordpress-with-allison-dye-and-sophia-derosia/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:177:\"The episode features our new hosts Sophia and Allison discussing their early exposure to WordPress, personal experiences, skill development, community impact, and future topics.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 27 May 2024 08:55:06 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:6;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:79:\"HeroPress: HeroPress in Spain, Accessibility and Inclusivity at WordCamp Europe\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:29:\"https://heropress.com/?p=6827\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:201:\"https://heropress.com/heropress-in-spain-accessibility-and-inclusivity-at-wordcamp-europe/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=heropress-in-spain-accessibility-and-inclusivity-at-wordcamp-europe\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7063:\"<img width=\"1024\" height=\"768\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/4436637dfd73554f4.37436592-1024x768.jpg\" class=\"attachment-large size-large wp-post-image\" alt=\"A pale fish with large eyes and rounded fins swimming in clear blue water with a few tiny bubbles visible around it.\" /><div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-6827_da78c2-d2\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id6827_e5d91a-c4 alignnone kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-1-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top kb-theme-content-width\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column6827_5128b0-a5 inner-column-1\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<h2 class=\"kt-adv-heading6827_f51751-1b wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\">HeroPress At WordCamp Europe 2024</h2>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/accessibility-and-inclusivity/\"><img width=\"1024\" height=\"296\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/wceu_updates-1024x296.jpg\" alt=\"WCEU Latest Updates\" class=\"wp-image-6680\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"kt-adv-heading6827_acae33-d3 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\">Accessibility and Inclusivity</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The organizing team at WCEU this year have made a great effort to make the event inclusive and accessible. <a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/accessibility-and-inclusivity/\">They&#8217;ve created a page</a> which details information about the venue, transportation, food, allergies, etc. for a very wide range of people, from attendees who are deaf, hard-of-hearing or sound sensitive, attendees who are blind, partially-sighted, photo or light sensitive, and attendees with autism, anxiety or neurodivergence. All of this in addition to solutions for people who move around differently.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Who are we going to see at WCEU? Stop by the <a href=\"https://heropress.com/slack/\">HeroPress Slack</a> and let is know, I&#8217;d love to touch base with you!</p>\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-6827_dc153e-a2\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id6827_ab1532-a3 alignnone kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-1-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top kb-theme-content-width\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column6827_a7d06e-af inner-column-1\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<h2 class=\"kt-adv-heading6827_823314-e0 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\"><a href=\"https://heropress.com/\">HeroPress.com</a> &#8211; <a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/from-blogging-to-wordpress-communities-a-bolivian-tale/\"><a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/discover-where-you-belong/\">Discover Where You Belong</a></a></h2>\n\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image is-style-default\">\n<a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/discover-where-you-belong/\"><img width=\"287\" height=\"300\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/angela_jin-287x300.jpg\" alt=\"Angela Jin\" class=\"wp-image-3468\" /></a></div>\n\n\n<p>Angela Jin wandered the world looking for her place in it until she found WordPress. It allowed her to move to Spain and live the life she wanted.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>I saw WordPress as a way for anyone to have a voice online, and as a result, I was also drawn to the idea of creating these tools that non-developers, like myself, could use in an increasingly online world.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Angela&#8217;s essay is <a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/discover-where-you-belong/\">available</a> on <a href=\"https://heropress.com\">HeroPress.com</a>.</p>\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-6827_3fd7d6-9d\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id6827_0c138d-76 alignnone kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-1-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top kb-theme-content-width\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column6827_2101a6-71 inner-column-1\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<h2 class=\"kt-adv-heading6827_c64b75-39 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\"><a href=\"https://wppodcasts.com\">WP Podcasts</a></h2>\n\n\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wppodcasts.com\"><img src=\"https://heropressnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/pocket_casts_single_315.png\" alt=\"Pocket Casts image\" class=\"wp-image-4316\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<p>There were <em>Twenty-four</em> WordPress podcast episodes released this week! Noy only that, we&#8217;ve passed 13,000 episodes!</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://elarroyo.dev/episodio-61-la-verdad-que-te-estan-ocultando-sobre-el-hosting/#new_tab\">Episodio 61 – La verdad que te están ocultando sobre el hosting</a> from <a href=\"https://wppodcasts.com/podcast/el-arroyo-dev/\">El Arroyo Dev</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://underrepresented-in-tech-1.castos.com/episodes/diversity-isnt-for-the-naked-eye#new_tab\">Diversity Isn’t for the Naked Eye</a> from <a href=\"https://wppodcasts.com/podcast/underrepresented-in-tech/\">Underrepresented in Tech</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://remkusdevries.com/podcast/from-failed-blogs-to-head-of-content-this-is-emma-youngs-journey/#new_tab\">From Failed Blogs to Head of Content. This is Emma Young’s Journey</a> from <a href=\"https://wppodcasts.com/podcast/within-wordpress/\">Within WordPress</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-100-nasa-wordpress-block-editor/#new_tab\">Gutenberg Changelog #100 – NASA’s New Website – the Switch to WordPress and Block Editor</a> from <a href=\"https://wppodcasts.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog/\">Gutenberg Changelog</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>There are new episodes every single day, so be sure to stop by <a href=\"https://wppodcasts.com\">WPPodcasts.com</a> and search for things that interest you!</p>\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<p>The banner at the top of this post is a <a href=\"https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/public-domain/cc0/\">CC0</a> licensed <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/photo/4436637dfd/\">photo</a> by <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/author/ajithrn/\">Ajith R N</a> from the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/\">WordPress Photo Directory</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s it for this week! If you&#8217;d like to get this post in your email every week, <a href=\"https://heropressnetwork.com/newsletter\">make sure you sign up</a>!</p>\n<p>The post <a href=\"https://heropress.com/heropress-in-spain-accessibility-and-inclusivity-at-wordcamp-europe/\">HeroPress in Spain, Accessibility and Inclusivity at WordCamp Europe</a> appeared first on <a href=\"https://heropress.com\">HeroPress</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 24 May 2024 17:03:48 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:7;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:83:\"Do The Woo Community: Building Community and Driving Innovation with Mohammed Moeez\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83715\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:82:\"https://dothewoo.io/building-community-and-driving-innovation-with-mohammed-moeez/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:133:\"Moeez from Cloudways shares insights on community engagement, product development, and navigating challenges in the hosting industry.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 24 May 2024 08:31:52 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:8;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:94:\"WPTavern: #121 – Alexander Gilmanov on Transitioning From Developer to Entrepreneur. Part 2.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=155933\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:106:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/121-alexander-gilmanov-on-transitioning-from-developer-to-entrepreneur-part-2\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:50984:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, one person&#8217;s story of the struggles of transitioning from a freelancer into an agency manager, but this is part two. If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the</p>\n\n\n\n<p>podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today we have Alexander Gilmanov. Alex comes to us today from Belgrade, Serbia. He&#8217;s a full stack developer with a rich heritage of freelance and agency work. His company officially launched in 2014, and they&#8217;ve continued to work with clients as well as creating a range of WordPress plugins and their own SaaS apps, mainly in the online booking space.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Slightly usually for this podcast, I decided to break the content up into two parts. You can hear the first episode, from last week, by going to wptavern.com and searching for episode 120.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Alexander brings a wealth of experience from his journey within the WordPress ecosystem. And this podcast is all about his transitioning from being a freelancer towards a more managerial role, now overseeing a team of 43 employees.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Alexander gets into the intricacies of team management, emphasizing the effective use of tools like Google Suite, Slack, Jira, Notion, Confluence, and GitLab.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We begin with Alexander reflecting upon his evolving role, from an individual contributor, to a leader. Responsible for a midsize team. He talks about the lessons learned along the way, particularly trying to steer clear of negative motivation tactics. He now advocates for positive reinforcement, and fostering a culture of trust and calm, where mistakes are viewed as opportunities for growth.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We then chat about the complexities of balancing automated and human support, and Alexander offers his perspective on managing support requests effectively whilst maintaining high customer satisfaction.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He also explains about the structure of his team, telling us about the benefits of smaller, independent teams, and the need for coordination across departments, such as product development, marketing, and support.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Towards the end, we talk about the WordPress community and Alexander contrast this with other industries, sharing insights from events and conferences that have shaped his approach to team management.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He mentions learning from established companies like Visual Composer or WP Bakery, noting the openness and knowledge sharing that define the WordPress ecosystem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Finally Alexander underscores the importance of building the right team. He discusses the need to recognize when team members are not a good fit, and now it&#8217;s not always realistic to expect every employee to be the perfect fit for his way of doing things. Seeking the right people and learning continuously forms a key part of his managerial philosophy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in team management and the dynamics of the WordPress community, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com forward slash podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A quick note before we begin, Alexander&#8217;s audio was not great at the start, but I&#8217;ve done my best to clean it up, and it is more than listenable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so, without further delay I bring you Alexander Gilmanov.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast once again by Alexander Gilmanov. Hello. How are you doing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:43] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Hi. I&#8217;m doing good. How are you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:45] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, really great. So, just to give you some context, dear listener, if you haven&#8217;t listened to the previous episode of this podcast, if you&#8217;ve missed a week, then it&#8217;s probably a good idea to go back because this is part two, kind of unexpectedly actually.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>When Alexander and I began our conversation for the podcast, just the intention was to get it all done in one hit. And then the conversation got away from us. I was really interested in it, and so we kept talking. And about halfway through what we intended to cover, I said, let&#8217;s do it as a two-parter. So that&#8217;s where we&#8217;re at, at the moment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, if you were to replay last week&#8217;s episode, Alexander will be able to introduce himself. So we won&#8217;t go through that whole process again. But what you&#8217;ll hear there is Alexander&#8217;s journey from being a freelancer, to a more managerial role, and the different things that he went through in his professional journey, in order to get where he is today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it was the story of his work life, you could encapsulate it as. And the bit that we never got to was all of the bits and pieces that make up the work life. How to do things, and the decisions that Alexander has made over the years, mistakes that have been made, and things that have been improved and, what have you. So that&#8217;s where we&#8217;re going to go for the next little episode. Let&#8217;s see where this goes to. But firstly, thank you for joining me again. I really appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:05] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Thank you for having me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:07] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, no, you&#8217;re very welcome. So we&#8217;ve got you at the point where you are now a project manager. Your career has ended up with a 43, I think you said, person company. It&#8217;s a lot of responsibility, and decisions will have been made on that journey. Things will have been done badly, some things will have been done brilliantly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s just go through the bits and the pieces that you think make you good at your job. Now, I&#8217;m not suggesting that you believe yourself to be brilliant at your job or anything, no big headedness here. But what are some of the kernels, the bits of wisdom that you could give us about managing a company, a web agency, with 43 people? And we can go in any direction you like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:46] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> While we were phrasing the question, you already mentioned one of the things that was on my mind because, exactly, many things are done, were done maybe wisely. Some things were mistakes, and I can&#8217;t consider myself to be a perfect project manager, or founder, or CEO. And I think this is one of the key things, like never to go to any extreme about thinking I&#8217;m doing things perfectly, and this is the only way to do it, and not to go to other extreme.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some people have this tendency of blaming themselves for every mistake, seeing it as failure, complete failure, something that cannot be redone. Almost never in business life it happens like that. But the attitude about the problem sometimes can create bigger problem than the problem itself. So that&#8217;s one thing that came to my mind as you were speaking. Try to stay calm about things, about failures, about success. Everything is learning. Everything will pass.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:42] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you have moments where you didn&#8217;t obey that little golden rule though? Do you have moments where the anxiety, the stress, I don&#8217;t know, the financial consequences of decisions you made, all felt like it was getting a bit too much? I think it&#8217;s easy to tell yourself after the fact, be kind to yourself, but reality is, when the clients are not happy, when the projects are not coming to fruition in a timely way, I think it&#8217;s all too easy to get into blaming, and anger, and all of those kind of things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:10] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Yes. I think one of my early mistakes, not failure like mistakes, but one of the wrong way of approaching things was using anxiety and fear as a motivator. Because for the first year or two, as I think I mentioned last time, we were depending on each and every project, each client. It created a lot of tension.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I didn&#8217;t like it, but when you feel constant stress, stress also gives you some adrenaline, some power, and then you can go for hours and hours. Long term, stress, and fear, and anxiety is a bad motivator, because you don&#8217;t feel good about those projects. You don&#8217;t create positive energy in the company, you exhaust yourself.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is something I realised maybe after two years of running the company, and I started restructuring my way of thinking about it. And this is something I would advise entrepreneurs, young founders, and young managers to avoid, because many people tend to do that. They start creating, they start exaggerating potential scenarios, potential problems that might happen.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What happens if this project fails? What happens if this client cancels? We are all doomed then. And let me stay until 2:00 AM today, and do everything possible. Okay, this gives you like short term boost, and short term motivation and fuel, but long term it&#8217;s going to exhaust you, and people around you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It can be very easy though to fall into that trap, can&#8217;t it? Because I think in some situations, fear, anxiety, and even anger, they are so close at hand. You know, they&#8217;re the natural thing that comes out in certain scenarios, especially fear. And to be calm, and to be equanimous, and to have that capability to take a step back and see that probably the doom scenario is not necessarily the scenario that&#8217;s going to come out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I guess if you, as the leader of the company, are exemplifying what the company stands for, and the way to behave in the company, if that&#8217;s the way that you are handling yourself, then in a way you are giving permission to everybody lower down to start to freak out, and believe that everything&#8217;s going wrong, and become angry and what have you. So changing that behavior to be more calm, there&#8217;ll be a knock on effect with your employees, and probably a lot calmer, and a lot more productive as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:20] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Yes, exactly. Allowing yourself to make mistakes is, I think, crucial. Being too relaxed about this is also important, but if you are setting expectations for your team, and you are too upset about every single mistake, it&#8217;s going to create a lot of stress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I did this mistake, as I said. In the early days, I was looking at all the successful examples, successful entrepreneurs, companies that have success stories because all you see online are success stories, and you think they have everything figured out. And then you look at your own company and you see all those things that other people don&#8217;t see from the inside, all the problems, maybe things not implemented to 100%, things you know can be done better. And you start blaming yourself and people around you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For the first years, I also believed in negative motivation too much. I was trying to establish some sort of penalties if something isn&#8217;t delivered on time, try to scare people if we are not going to deliver the project by day. I don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s going to happen with the company, something like that. And this is really a wrong thing, I think now, as of today, to do for a leader, because you&#8217;re not creating trust.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>People maybe will, as also short term, do more. Maybe they will become more motivated, deliver more, because they&#8217;re at fear for their positions. Long term, especially if you&#8217;re building products of your own, like deadlines, penalties, trying to scare people, creating anxiety, it&#8217;s poison long term. You&#8217;re not going to get a team you can trust, team to trust you. You&#8217;re not creating the ownership feel you want from your key employees.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:58] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, and presumably you are coming to work not feeling great about anything as well. You are at the top of the tree there, and it all looks bad all the way from top to bottom. That&#8217;s really interesting though. I&#8217;m no psychologist, I don&#8217;t really know how the brain reacts to fear, as opposed to positivity.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But my intuition is that, if you are told that you are doing a good job more frequently than you are told that your work is not up to scratch, and there&#8217;s this deadline coming, and there&#8217;s these penalties you&#8217;re about to fall into the trap of receiving, my guess is that you&#8217;re just going to enjoy that work experience, and be much more motivated to make the job successful, if you are constantly being praised and rewarded.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:39] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Yes, you need the right people. Some people that would be a brilliant employee, for some other company it will not be perfect match for your team, for your project, for the combination that you&#8217;re building.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yes, I wanted to say it&#8217;s a good skill you need to learn to identify those people. One of the early mistakes I did, I tried to change people. I tried to either adjust the way we do things as a company to certain people, or try to adjust certain people, and get into something which is really not job of a manager. Change the habits, change the mindset, change the values of a person.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sometimes when there is no match, the best solution for everyone to part ways and to look for a different person. Also, it&#8217;s a common mistake, and I&#8217;m also guilty of doing it, is to punish the members that do everything, and punish the rights team members for something the team members haven&#8217;t done right. By introducing penalties, by scaring the team in group emails, or something like that, but I don&#8217;t do anymore.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s good to hear. One of the things that you mentioned there was how easy it is to assume that everybody&#8217;s getting everything right. To look online, and with the best will in the world, more or less everybody paints best picture of themselves online. Not many people are going to go out there and share all of the things that are going wrong in their business or their life. So you do have this very skewed impression.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, if you head onto YouTube and look at management videos, how to manage a web design agency. There&#8217;ll be loads of different ideas, and maybe some of them are just not going to fit with your way of doing things. And so that leads me to this next thought, which is, basically, where did you learn to make these changes in the way that you manage things?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Was it an incremental thing? Did you have some sort of guru, or course, or tutor that you went to? Or was it merely a case of, over the years, making mistakes and looking and thinking, okay, I need to change that one little thing, and then another few months goes by and, okay, I need to change that one little thing? Where did you get your inspirations from?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:38] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> It&#8217;s an incremental thing, and it&#8217;s an ongoing process. In the early days of transitioning to a manager, I really almost physically felt this hunger for knowledge and mentorship. And I used each and every opportunity I could. I was writing emails, and as we are in the WordPress ecosystem, I can even maybe mention a couple of companies that were really, really helpful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For example, Visual Composer, WP Bakery, they were my early role model. They were very successful in the marketplaces where we also started selling our plugins. And I was looking up to them. I got the inspiration from their websites, from their social media. And one day I took the courage and wrote them a message through a contact form telling them, I really admire what you do, and I would love to share experiences.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I received an answer from their CEO the next day. And he was very kind, and he answered many questions. And then in one of the WordCamps a couple of years after, I saw that they&#8217;re attending it. And, again, I wrote them a message and we got to know each other, and they were all very open about how they do things, what they do right, what they did wrong. And this was something that, it was just one acquaintance, and just one step I took without any hope that someone will answer, which answered a lot of things that on my mind.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some things were just, you need proof that you&#8217;re not doing something wrong. Sometimes you will try doing, let&#8217;s say Google ads or Facebook ads, and they don&#8217;t produce any results, and you think, maybe I&#8217;m just no good at it, maybe others have everything figured out. But then you talk to other, two, three people in the industry, and you see that it&#8217;s actually a common thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Also Sujay from Brainstorm Force, Astra, I keep mentioning him. Getting to know him was a very insightful experience. He would share many of the things that they have done, that they changed in their journey. Some of the findings that they had, for example, switching from selling plugins on the marketplace, towards selling plugins directly on the website. It was something that was on my mind for years. I thought we just can&#8217;t afford it. We don&#8217;t have the traffic, we don&#8217;t have the demand generation on our end, and we depend so hugely on this marketplace.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And he shared, I think even the revenue numbers, things other people wouldn&#8217;t share in different industries. He showed me the, you will drop for certain percentage when you move away from the marketplace, but then it&#8217;ll give you a push to build your own customer base, and you can work with them better, you can nurture this better. Eventually we&#8217;ll recover, and long-term effect, compound effect, will be much better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Such interactions were maybe the mentoring sessions. I didn&#8217;t have a mentor I could talk to. But also, I tried to use every opportunity I could. I was attending events, I was attending talks, conferences. Sometimes it was just basic stuff like how to do accounting, how to fire people, how to hire people. And from every conferences, webinar, education piece, I took away something.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sometimes it wasn&#8217;t much, the event itself, but I would meet a person that is maybe in a different industry, but at a similar role. And I would ask them like, we are really struggling with managing all this different stuff in the office, bulbs keep going out, and we need paper towels and, I don&#8217;t know, toilet paper, things like that. And we already have 15 people, but still there is not enough time to hire full-time office manager.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And at the same time, I feel it&#8217;s not wise for me to keep doing all this as a CEO and founder. I&#8217;m wasting time for trivial things. They would just give me advice how they maybe hired someone who is combining office management and HR, or accounting. I never thought about it this way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:17] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> One of the things which I keep coming back to, you may have strong intuitions about this, you may agree, you may disagree, I don&#8217;t know. I do think that being a part of an open source project is different in some way. I don&#8217;t know what that is, I can&#8217;t put my finger on it. But the willingness to communicate with, in some cases, direct competitors is really quite startling.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, you go to a major WordCamp, and there will be all these companies who are directly competing against each other. Let&#8217;s take hosting, for example, that would be a good example. They&#8217;re all there, and obviously they&#8217;re pitching their product, and they&#8217;ve got their booth, or what have you. But when it&#8217;s all over, and the evening rolls around, they&#8217;re all having a bit of a chat and sharing information.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There may be some things which are confidential, but I do think that making use of those connections at those kind of events is really useful. And that was very surprising to me when I first turned up to a WordPress event, that all of these competitors would be quite willing to talk through their problems. And you may be not competing with the companies that you&#8217;ve mentioned, I&#8217;m not entirely sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But still very nice of those people, to take time out of their schedule to give you a bit of a leg up, and some tutoring, and some mentoring. And I&#8217;m not really sure that that would happen in every kind of industry. Like I said, I don&#8217;t know why that is, but I have an intuition that that&#8217;s a thing. So I don&#8217;t know if you want to comment on that, but I&#8217;m just offering it up.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:45] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> I fully agree. It&#8217;s very different in WordPress. I had some experience with the agency work, and with some industries. We had contact with as an agency, and also I attended lots of SaaS conferences. The overall atmosphere is very different. And competitors, they would be, of course, polite and professional towards each other. Last WordCamp in Taipei, there was a picture, like BB Builder, Divi and Elementor walk into a bar, and three guys sharing a beer, it might be even forbidden by corporate policy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:17] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think it would. I really think it would, and so that is curious. The piece of the jigsaw that I can&#8217;t quite understand, and I think it&#8217;s what makes open source such an interesting and friendly environment. Again, dear listener, if you&#8217;re listening to this and you haven&#8217;t been to one of these events before, I think it&#8217;s worth a shot. You know, if there&#8217;s parts of your business that you are not that sure about, obviously you could hop in a contact form and hope like you did, that you would get a reply.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But turning up to some of these events, and seeing if anybody in the room has had the same experience, or is trying to figure out the same thing that you are, is really, really valuable. We call it the hallway track, and it&#8217;s the bit where everybody just hangs out outside of the presentations, and the bits and the pieces that have been organised.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay, let&#8217;s move on to some of the things that you&#8217;ve shared. Now, I said in the last episode that Alexander had created this Google Doc, not necessarily for me, but he shared it with me, and it was really a dumping ground, I think you&#8217;d explained, you were just letting your thoughts out into text. And I&#8217;m going to sort of latch onto a few bits and pieces.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So this is some of the process stuff, some of the things that you&#8217;ve figured make your business run more smoothly. And one of the things which is right at the top, and I think you mentioned this quite a few times, making sure that your projects and your products are always with the target audience in mind.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, I know that&#8217;s easy to say, right? Okay, always think about the audience, we must think about the audience. That&#8217;s obvious, right? Tell me about that. Why have you put that as right at the top, and you keep repeating it? What&#8217;s going on there?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:46] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> It&#8217;s sort of a mantra, I think every product builder needs to return to. Everybody knows that. I think every product company would have, like we are not building it for beautiful UX. We are not building it for ourselves, we are building it for the end customer. And the end customer, as they say, they don&#8217;t want to buy a drill, they want to put a picture on their wall, or they want holes in their walls.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And because you get carried away by the process, and it&#8217;s never ending. I know that I&#8217;m sharing this with you like I&#8217;m a guru of that, but tomorrow I may get driven away by working with a designer again. So if a large percentage of your customers is telling you that your product is doing something wrong, and you know that it doesn&#8217;t, they&#8217;re right because you&#8217;re building it for them. And it&#8217;s so easy, and for different segments it&#8217;s so easy to just right it off, especially for support or something like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know that every day you&#8217;re going to receive a hundred of new requests, you feel them as never ending. Support agents, it&#8217;s a very tough part of our job, and it&#8217;s very easy for them to get into that mindset. Those guys keep annoying me, they keep writing these repeating stupid questions. You start seeing them in your head as something, as a crowd of people, and they keep asking the same question, you think they&#8217;re all somehow connected. And you need to repeatedly wake yourself up because you act as a company, work for those people, you exist because of those people, and you need to make them happy</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:16] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You know, it&#8217;s really interesting because, I&#8217;m sure you have done the same thing that I&#8217;m about to describe, that you have used some service, product, whatever it may be, and you&#8217;ve written in with a suggestion or support, and you get something which feels angry back. It&#8217;s jarring, isn&#8217;t it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Very quickly, you have a very negative impression of the company. And all it took was for one employee, who maybe is a bit fed up with their job, or was having a bad day, or whatever that might be, and you are skewed. And I suppose, in a sense, the best company on earth would be a company where you could sell the product and have no users. Nobody would write in. Nobody would need any support. Every feature that you shipped would be welcomed, and everything that you didn&#8217;t ship, nobody needed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But that&#8217;s just not how it is. You have users, and unless you&#8217;re actually making them the core then, what&#8217;s the point? But how do you make sure that you are servicing your users? Is it talking to people at events, people that are using your product? Is it just inspecting the support tickets periodically? What&#8217;s the process, which means that you are fairly confident that you are listening to your user base?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:28] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> It&#8217;s one thing where I want to highlight, you never can do it 100% perfect, you just said yourself. And in this part, I don&#8217;t want to sound like we have it all figured out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> No, I understand, yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:39] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> We are constantly working on improving it. We know how we would do this in the ideal scenario, but the resources aren&#8217;t there yet. We would love to have 24/7 support. We would love to have three tiers of support. We love to have a real time sync between all the departments. And we are going towards this ideal solution but, you know, we also have restrictions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>43 people company is a lot of people, but still not enough for everything to be ideal. And getting back to the question, we try our best to do all of this. We have open channels for people to suggest features, and vote for features. But we also try to be honest with them that, this is not how we determine the roadmap, how we define the roadmap.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sometimes people get angry. They say, this feature has 800 votes, and it&#8217;s still not in the process of development, it doesn&#8217;t look like rocket science to build. For example, hotel booking, into the booking plugin that we have. From the outside it doesn&#8217;t, but from the inside, when you have all these other things going on, it&#8217;s tough to even give estimate on when we start working on this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, yes, we have this channel. We are trying to build communities. This is something that we don&#8217;t do good enough, and I think we should do a much better job at it. Communities in Facebook, we launched a Discord channel where people can communicate and help each other, even if our support manager is not there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maybe they already had question about how to configure something, and then some other user can help. And I&#8217;m also in this community, and from time to time I would monitor and see like what are the common frustrations. And I also try to appear at least once per month in this feature vault system, and monitor what&#8217;s most requested, what are the frustrations, because unfortunately frustrations will happen. You can&#8217;t keep everybody happy, even though we want to.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you encourage your staff to use your product? So let&#8217;s take the example of the booking system, Amelia. Now, I&#8217;m guessing that a proportion of your staff will have no need to use a booking plugin, because they&#8217;ve already got a job, and they&#8217;re not booking out their time, or whatever it may be that that plugin most frequently gets used for.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I guess, unless you know the ins and outs of that plugin, and the pain points that a real user experiences, you don&#8217;t really understand. You haven&#8217;t got under the skin of what that thing is, and it&#8217;s too easy to just sit there and be the developer. I&#8217;m working on the technology, I&#8217;m working on the code to make it work, look it works. Yeah, but nobody needs that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do you encourage your staff to use it and implement And I know that you&#8217;ve got a variety of different booking solutions, as well as a data tables management suite. We&#8217;ll put the links in the show notes. So yeah, do you get your staff to use what you produce?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:20] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Yes we do. As you said, not all of them need booking solutions. But for example, myself, I have a booking page, where people can book a call with me when needed. By configuring it, found a couple of bugs, and issues, and couple of inconsistencies while developing something, it seemed like a logical scenario, but when I tried to configure it and use it for myself, I saw that, okay, it doesn&#8217;t quite follow the thought process.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Also what we do is, all the managerial roles, project managers, team managers, team lead of the project managers, and myself, whenever we receive, and because there are so many channels, every now and then certain support request or comment would reach us, somewhere through the contact form, or in a comment somewhere in the social media or in private messages.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Customer would reach out to us with a support request, or some comment, or some concern. If we have the time, we would try first to answer, and take care of these customers ourselves, because then it helps for example, to keep the hand on the pulse, as we say it. Not necessarily this one customer would have the most typical problem, it helps me to remember what I just said a couple of minutes ago.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We are building this for the customers. They&#8217;re not here because of us. We are here because of them, and this is what we do. And then it helps us to see the real use case scenarios, scenarios we would never even think about. Language schools, yoga studios. Many, many different use cases.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Very logical sometimes for them to request a feature we don&#8217;t have, and we would never even think about such a feature, because we had a totally different use case in mind when we were building something.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:57] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, a room full of 43 developers and associated managers, you&#8217;re not going to have all the intuitions, are you? There&#8217;s bound to be somebody that comes very left field, and suggests something which, you never know as well, do you? It may be that somebody in a conversation in a Facebook group just says something, and that just launches your business off in a completely different direction, and you can pivot. So I think you&#8217;ve got to be open to those things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Can I just ask, I don&#8217;t want to get into this particularly, but you were talking about support there, and some of the mechanisms that you&#8217;ve got for support. So just very, very briefly, what do you think about the sort of rising trend to automate support?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>More and more I see that, if I go to a website, for a while it was Intercom, that was a new thing. There was that little bubble in the bottom corner and you could type something in, and you would either get a reply over email or you&#8217;d get somebody in real time writing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now we see this trend towards AI, where the AI tries to be the go-between. I get the feeling that it&#8217;s to protect the company from the support burden. Often it&#8217;s just to insulate, can we get the answer to them before we need a human involved? But I also have this notion that, for most people they find it quite frustrating. So it&#8217;s entirely up to you if you want to answer that or not, but I just thought that was curious.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:10] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Yeah, it can be frustrating. And I think the most important part is to always keep the option open to, forward it to a real person. Of course, yeah, that&#8217;s the conflict of the paradox, whatever you want to put it. You don&#8217;t want to invest too much in tier one support because, indeed, a lot of people don&#8217;t want to browse through the data and the knowledge base that is already there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A lot of frequently asked questions already have a very detailed answer somewhere online, but they don&#8217;t want to dig through this, even if it&#8217;s two clicks. It&#8217;s always easier for them to ask a question. And for this, AI can be pretty good. And it can be really frustrating. But what I would mention there is that, sometimes a real human can be even more frustrating, because sometimes they can get more, I don&#8217;t want to say any bad words, but they can give you answers that are even more off than AI would give you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And with some very large corporations, I don&#8217;t want to call the names but, for example, for configuring some pay per click ads, I wanted specific support. And first, I had to wait to be switched from an AI that doesn&#8217;t know anything to a real person. And then this person had also completely no idea. They tried to send me the same copy paste template replies, and I wasted an hour of my time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:27] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I&#8217;m not sure. We&#8217;ll have to keep an eye on this debate, but it does seem like that kind of support system is going to the way that things are done in the future.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay, so we talked about the relationship between your company and the users. Let&#8217;s just turn for the next 10 minutes or so to the sort of structure that you&#8217;ve got within your own company, and how you manage that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We don&#8217;t need to go through the evolution of it, but right now you&#8217;ve got 43 people. Just tell us what your company looks like, in terms of how you&#8217;ve got that cake layered from top right to bottom. Where have you got to? By employee number 43, what does it look like, and how do you have people, working underneath other people? What does it all look like?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:04] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> An ongoing process. Not to take too much time, I will just share my current take on high level, how we try to structure things. First of all, we try to keep teams at five to seven people maximum, for them to be able to sync with each other. And this is the number, I think everything higher than five is hard for a manager to follow. For one person to know what each and every one team member are doing, if there is 10 people.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>At the moment we have product teams and we try to structure those as almost mini businesses, within our overall business. For example, a developer that works on wpDataTables wouldn&#8217;t have tasks to deliver on some other products, and the project manager in this team would also only focus on their own product development.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What we still share, to a certain extent, is the support or customer happiness team is shared between three different products, mostly for redundancy when someone is away, or there are so many tickets that the assigned person can&#8217;t cover all of them. We need to have redundancies so all the support agents are onboarded to all the products. As we evolve, we want to also have the support team within the product team, so that it would be more or less independent from each other.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And we also share the marketing team. Also not an ideal setup. This is something which is optimal for now, given the resources. I think that it&#8217;s perfect if the marketing is also focused on one product only. This is something that is still luxury as of now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We are also sharing the marketing team at the moment. It&#8217;s not an ideal setup. As we go ahead, we would also love to divide the marketing team and merge the different marketing teams with the corresponding product teams, because this is actually the best way to do this. When every person focuses on one role, on one product, then you get the best results.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But this is a luxury you only get with scaling. Yeah, so this is probably the principle we are following now. One manager for five to seven people max. More independence within teams. See what&#8217;s the level of decision making independence we can give them. And then some managers that would be responsible for syncing different teams, because customer support, customer happiness has the inputs that the product development needs.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Also, the product development needs to sync with the marketing to market the features, and to the support, so that support would know what are all the new features that we are releasing in the new versions. Yes, and we are sharing naturally the admin part of things like office management, HR, those things. But this is, I think, natural for any company.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So if I&#8217;ve understood it correctly, you&#8217;ve got teams of five to seven developers. That then has a manager.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:53] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Five to seven people. This would also include designers, developers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:57] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Right, so each of those has a manager, so you&#8217;ve got a bunch of those teams, and then those managers then report to, what, another manager, slightly higher up. And then, do those managers then report to you? And then separately you&#8217;ve got the marketing and the support teams, who have to communicate with all of those teams, so that they&#8217;re aware of what the product actually is on a day-to-day basis, okay. For 43 people, you&#8217;re happy with the way that&#8217;s going.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s just, very quickly, before we run out of time, because we&#8217;re probably approaching the time that we&#8217;ve got available. You&#8217;ve written down a section of tools that you like, which I think is quite interesting. We don&#8217;t really get into this conversation. So, what are some of the things that you are using in the year 2024? Obviously it&#8217;ll evolve over time. I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re happy to jettison some tools, and adopt new ones as they come out. But where are you at right now? What are the mainstays of your tooling?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:44] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Yeah, one note I would probably, one comment I would mention before going into the tools is that, it&#8217;s not really about the tools. It&#8217;s a mistake many managers and many beginners do, that they think that tool will solve a problem for them. But no, tool can only help you to solve a problem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I will never, ever get over thinking that the tool will solve the problem. I make this mistake multiple times a year. Just get a new tool, and imagine it will fix all the things, and it never does. Anyway, sorry, an aside. You carry on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:13] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> We all do this mistake. It&#8217;s a nice idea that you install the software, and you don&#8217;t have to worry about organising tasks anymore, something like that. So when I just became a manager, I was actually just doing some to-do lists, checklists, and it was sufficient. And I had a higher level checklists, and then drilled down into every point. Every point would have checklists under it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>As of today, 2024, I believe the tools stack is more or less standardised in the industry. We use the Google Suite for docs, for sheets, for emails. We use Slack for real time communication. And sometimes I think if we should maybe reduce using Slack, because it creates sometimes too much of context switching, too many distractions throughout the day, especially for managers. That&#8217;s a pain point for managers, that they have so many messages, and people expect them to answer like within 10 minutes. Where is this doc you shared with us on Friday?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We use Jira for tracking the projects. And we use different kind of boards for different projects, because I think every team needs to decide on the process that works for them. We use agile for all projects, but somewhere we use more kanban kind of approach. We have no strict deadlines in terms of two week sprints, and for most projects we use two week sprints. And then we have sprint planning, sprint review, and all that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tasks are estimated in story points. Probably you&#8217;re familiar with agile scrum and with all this methodology. And it then also helps with the estimating, with reporting, with looking back at how many story points every release had.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We are using some of the Confluence, but actually for longer term, structured kind of project, and team documentation, we use Notion. It&#8217;s a very nice, very handy tool for that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And we have different layers like company policies, team structure, product related assets, product related standards, coding standards, marketing standards. Whenever we figure out an SOP, we put it there, we all know this is the app we use, and everything is in there. And it&#8217;s very helpful for onboarding new guys, because before that we had all those chaotic Google Docs folders, and every time we had to remember where to look for those, and now everything is in one place.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What else do we use? There are tools we use here and there, like Discord for communities. Those are more task relevant tools, like for Google ads, Facebook ads, we use some of downloadable software to monitor and track, but this is less relevant for project management.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But for project management, I think Jira is the most important part. And we use GitLab for developers. It&#8217;s connected to all the servers, to the continuous integration, continuous deployment process, and to Jira. Whenever something is pushed for a certain task, Jira has a reference to it. Yeah, I think from the major software all of us use, that would be it. But as I said, it&#8217;s really about, really not about the tools.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Exactly right. It really isn&#8217;t about the tools. Also curious that you have selected what many other teams have selected. There are definitely some sort of star players out there, in those project management software, and things like that. They&#8217;re popular for a reason. But I think trying to wrangle the communication between a growing team, especially when you&#8217;re trying to onboard people, really a difficult thing to do. It&#8217;s almost impossible to keep everybody on the page.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I share your frustration with Slack. One of the things that I find difficult about Slack is just being able to keep up with something if you&#8217;ve had a day off or something. You know, you&#8217;ve suddenly got this linear feed of information, you&#8217;ve got to scroll right up there, and the expectation is the link that was buried in some threaded comment you should have seen and, well, I didn&#8217;t see it, I&#8217;m really sorry about that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think probably we&#8217;ve gone through all of the different bits and the pieces that I wanted to go through. I am so appreciative of the amount of time that you&#8217;ve given to me. Enormous thanks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The other thing that I would like to say is, what&#8217;s coming out of the conversation that we&#8217;ve had, I think is that, you view this as a journey. There&#8217;s no actual destination here, well, maybe there is. When you are 65 years old or something, and you are finally wishing to retire. But this whole process is just a constant process of tweaking, changing, modifying, taking people on for different roles, trying things out, forgiving yourself when they go wrong. And I&#8217;ve learned a lot from all of the different things that you&#8217;ve said to me over the last couple of hours.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>As I said, the show notes will be able to, well, you&#8217;ll be able to use the show notes to track down any of the links for anything that Alexander has mentioned.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just before we go, Alexander, do you want to drop once more where people can find you? I know we did this in the last episode, but we might as well do it again before we round off.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:40:47] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Yeah, I&#8217;m most active in LinkedIn, so you can always find me there. And I&#8217;m happy to connect if you have a question, concern, comment, please contact me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:40:55] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, I will put that in the show notes. Thank you so much for chatting to me. I really have enjoyed this conversation, and I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:03] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Thank you. And it&#8217;s actually very interesting to share my thoughts, and to structure my thoughts. It helps me also to iterate and reflect on all those things. Thank you very much.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexander-gilmanov-tms/\">Alexander Gilmanov</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Alex comes to us today from Belgrade, Serbia. He’s a full-stack developer with a rich heritage of freelance and agency work. His company officially launched in 2014, and they’ve continued work with clients, as well as creating a range of WordPress plugins, and their own SaaS apps, mainly in the online booking space.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Slightly unusually for this podcast I decided to break the content up into two parts. You can hear the first episode from last week by going to the WP Tavern website and searching for <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/120-alexander-gilmanov-on-transitioning-from-developer-to-entrepreneur\">episode 120</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Alexander brings a wealth of experience from his journey within the WordPress ecosystem, and this podcast is all about his transitioning from being a freelancer towards a more managerial role, now overseeing a team of 43 employees.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Alexander gets into the intricacies of team management, emphasising the effective use of tools like Google Suite, Slack, Jira, Notion, Confluence, and GitLab.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We begin with Alexander reflecting upon his evolving role from an individual contributor to a leader, responsible for a mid-sized team. He talks about the lessons learned along the way, particularly trying to steer clear of negative motivation tactics. He now advocates for positive reinforcement and fostering a culture of trust and calm, where mistakes are viewed as opportunities for growth.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We then chat about the complexities of balancing automated and human support, and Alexander offers his perspective on managing support requests effectively while maintaining high customer satisfaction.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He also explains the structure of his team, telling us about the benefits of smaller, independent teams and the need for coordination across departments such as product development, marketing, and support.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Towards the end we talk about the WordPress community, and Alexander contrasts this with other industries, sharing insights from events and conferences that have shaped his approach to team management. He mentions learning from established companies like Visual Composer or WP Bakery, noting the openness and knowledge-sharing that define the WordPress ecosystem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Finally, Alexander underscores the importance of building the right team. He discusses the need to recognise when team members are not a good fit, and how it’s not always realistic to expect every employee to be a perfect fit for his way of doing things. Seeking the right people and learning continuously forms a key part of his managerial philosophy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you’re interested in team management and the dynamics of the WordPress community, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://visualcomposer.com/\">Visual Composer</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wpbakery.com/\">WPBakery</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://brainstormforce.com/\">Brainstorm Force</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wpastra.com/\">Astra</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://workspace.google.com/\">Google Workspace</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wpdatatables.com/\">wpDataTables</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wpamelia.com/\">Amelia booking plugin</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://trafft.com/\">Trafft</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://slack.com/\">Slack</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira\">Jira</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence\">Confluence</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.notion.so/\">Notion</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://about.gitlab.com/\">GitLab</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexander-gilmanov-tms/\">Alexander on LinkedIn</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 22 May 2024 14:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:9;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:45:\"Do The Woo Community: Episode 500, Thank You!\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83696\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:42:\"https://dothewoo.io/episode-500-thank-you/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:27:\"Short and sweet, thank you!\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 22 May 2024 13:16:26 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:10;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:97:\"Do The Woo Community: Groundbreaker Talents, Opening Tech Opportunities for Young Women in Uganda\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83671\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:95:\"https://dothewoo.io/groundbreaker-talents-opening-tech-opportunities-for-young-women-in-uganda/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:186:\"Learn about mentorship, sponsorship, and the impactful work of Groundbreaker, a program drives powerful experiences for mentors, talents, and the tech industry for young women in Uganda.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 21 May 2024 14:14:34 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Spam\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"http://akismet.com/?p=283943\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:64:\"https://akismet.com/blog/akismet-elementor-form-spam-protection/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3145:\"<p>Elementor users have a new reason to rejoice: Form spam is a thing of the past! The Elementor Form widget is a great tool to build powerful forms with minimal effort. And when combined with the power of Akismet, you’ll have peace of mind that you’re receiving only legitimate responses, and not wasting time on&nbsp;spam.</p>\n\n<p>That’s why Elementor users will be pleased to hear about the new Akismet integration in <a href=\"https://elementor.com/blog/elementor-319-display-conditions-akismet-integration/\">Elementor&nbsp;3.19</a>.</p>\n\n\n<span id=\"more-283943\"></span>\n\n\n<h2 id=\"what-is akismet\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What is&nbsp;Akismet?</h2>\n\n<p>Akismet is an AI&#8209;powered anti&#8209;spam technology that blocks spam with 99.99% accuracy. It works in the background, so it doesn’t force site visitors to complete an annoying CAPTCHA. Moreover, Akismet’s cloud technology means that it won’t slow down your site. To date, Akismet is used on more than 100 million websites built on WordPress and&nbsp;beyond.</p>\n\n<h2 id=\"what-is-elementor forms\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What is Elementor&nbsp;Forms?</h2>\n\n<p><a href=\"https://elementor.com/\">Elementor</a> is a feature&#8209;rich website builder for WordPress. Alongside the flagship drag&#8209;and&#8209;drop editor, Elementor also offers 100+ widgets for extra functionality.<br />Among these is <a href=\"https://elementor.com/features/form-builder/\">Elementor Forms</a>, one of many widgets included in the premium version of the plugin. Elementor’s form builder is easy to learn and customizable. But, more than that, it’s convenient — you don’t need to download a different form&nbsp;plugin.</p>\n\n<h2 id=\"elementor-and-akismet-working together\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Elementor and Akismet working&nbsp;together</h2>\n\n<p>Seeing the potential for a useful collaboration, Elementor began work on integrating Akismet into their tools. While this feature ran in beta back in January, now all Elementor users on version 3.19 and above can enjoy Akismet protection within Elementor&nbsp;Forms.</p>\n\n<p><a href=\"https://elementor.com/help/block-spam-messages-from-forms/\">Enabling Akismet in Elementor Forms</a> just takes a few clicks. Akismet protects forms without the need for inconvenient CAPTCHA elements that slow down your site and drive away&nbsp;visitors.</p>\n\n<p>Note that you can only add spam protection to the Name, URL, Email, and Message fields. This should cover most use cases. Other fields, like the Password or Date selector, don’t require spam&nbsp;protection.</p>\n\n<h2 id=\"welcome-more-akismet integrations\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Welcome more Akismet&nbsp;integrations</h2>\n\n<p>The goal at Akismet is to <a href=\"https://akismet.com/features/\">rid the web of spam</a> for good, so more integrations are always something to celebrate. Elementor Forms has now been added to the list of <a href=\"https://akismet.com/support/getting-started/using-akismet-with-your-contact-forms/\">supported contact form&nbsp;plugins</a>.</p>\n\n\n<p>Akismet will continue doing what it does best: cleaning up spam across WordPress and beyond.&nbsp;</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 20 May 2024 14:37:24 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ali Uğurlu\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:12;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:78:\"Do The Woo Community: Building a Multichannel WooCommerce with Nitish Upadhyay\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83617\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:77:\"https://dothewoo.io/building-a-multichannel-woocommerce-with-nitish-upadhyay/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:115:\"In this episode of Woo AgencyChat learn more about turning your clients WooCommerce shop into a multichannel store.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 20 May 2024 09:23:18 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:13;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:111:\"Gutenberg Times: Gutenberg Changelog #100 – NASA’s New Website – the Switch to WordPress and Block Editor\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?post_type=podcast&p=28669\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:87:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-100-nasa-wordpress-block-editor/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:58205:\"<p>In this episode, Stacy Holtz, Gary Kovar and Birgit Pauli-Haack discuss NASA’s new website &#8211; the switch to WordPress and Block Editor, the scale of the project, the block and theme development, design and migration.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-100-nasa-wordpress-block-editor/#shownotes\">Show Notes</a> / <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-100-nasa-wordpress-block-editor/#transcript\">Transcript</a></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Music:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://soundcloud.com/xirclebox\">Homer Gaines</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandy-reed/\">Sandy Reed</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://markuraine.com/\">Mark Uraine</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://icodeforapurpose.com\">Birgit Pauli-Haack</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-larger-font-size\" id=\"shownotes\"><strong>Show Notes</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://lonerockpoint.com/2024/04/nasas-digital-universe-shines-with-webby-awards-nominations/\">NASA’s Digital Universe Shines with Webby Awards Nominations</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://x.com/photomatt/status/1777807195700125744\">Matt Mullenweg&#8217;s tweet</a> about the traffic of the Solar Eclipse Live stream. </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://lonerockpoint.com/2023/10/nasa-flagship-wordpress-site-launch/\">NASA’s Flagship Website Launches on WordPress</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://lonerockpoint.com/2023/11/content-migration-for-nasa/\">Behind-the-Scenes Look at Content Migration for NASA</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2023/10/13/for-all-userkind-nasa-web-modernization-and-wordpress/\">For all userkind: NASA web modernization and WordPress</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2023/10/23/hands-on-with-nasas-new-digital-platform/\">Hands on with NASA’s new digital&nbsp;platform</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-large-font-size\">Stay in Touch</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Did you like this episode? <a href=\"https://lovethepodcast.com/gutenbergchangelog\"><strong>Please write us a review </strong></a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Ping us on Twitter or send DMs with questions. <a href=\"https://twitter.com/gutenbergtimes\">@gutenbergtimes </a>and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/bph\">@bph</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><em>If you have questions or suggestions, or news you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. </em></li>\n\n\n\n<li><em>Please write us a review on iTunes! <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/itunes/\">(Click here to learn how)</a></em></li>\n</ul>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-large-font-size\" id=\"transcript\"><strong>Transcript</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Hello, and welcome to our hundredth episode of the Gutenberg Changelog podcast. Now, let that sink in a little bit. A hundred episodes. That&#8217;s about at least 80 hours together, dear listeners. And today, the hundredth show. I&#8217;m thrilled to have a special show for you, for me, and hopefully also for our guests here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I have with me Stacy Holtz and Gary Kovar from the Lone Rock Point agency. But how would you know them? Yes, they worked with others on the NASA&#8217;s new website. Switch to WordPress and the block editor, and we will have a great chat about the scope of the project, how WordPress really scales and how they did it in development, as well as in user training, content creators, blocking stuff, working with blocks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m your host, Birgit Pauli-Haack, curator at the Gutenberg Times and a full-time core contributor to the WordPress open source projects, sponsored by Automattic for the Future Program. So let me introduce my guest today. Stacy Holtz has been with Lone Rock Point for three years, focusing on project and team management as group account director. Her significant contributions to the NASA project have been highlighted through her leadership in user support training efforts, especially in guiding users on the effective use of custom-built blocks. Welcome, Stacy. So happy you are on the show also with us.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Stacy Holtz:</em> Thank you. I&#8217;m so excited to be here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> It&#8217;s cool. It&#8217;s cool. So also with us is Gary Kovar. Gary Kovar, principal software engineer at Lone Rock Point. And his role during the NASA project was, he was instrumental in steering the team towards the beta phase, was key in the integration of Search.gov, and oversaw the management of more than 200,000 redirects. He&#8217;s notably skilled in bringing together historic materials and managing the space station research explorer, as well as various other non-WordPress static content. Now there were a few words in there that I need to clarify later. Welcome to the show, Gary.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Gary Kovar:</em> Thanks. Excited to be here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, it&#8217;s wonderful. I also want to point out to our listeners, what&#8217;s the connection with NASA? Apart from that you&#8217;re awesome and that you built a phenomenal block- based website. I have a high affinity for NASA. Fifteen years ago in 2009, I was part of the first tweet up for the shuttle launch 129 on Cape Canaveral. And we were two days where 150 people from Twitter that had been following NASA for the last two years or so on the platform. And they were invited to come to Cape Canaveral, spend a whole day in talks and meet some of the engineers, and meet astronauts, and I met Mike Macedonia, and Miles O&#8217;Brien was there, and quite a few engineers were there to tell us what this all entails. And we of course didn&#8217;t completely get it, but we had a very new take on it because, and that was the idea from the social media team, that the news take this in 129 shuttle starts. You can&#8217;t always, there&#8217;s no news in there unless something happens.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So there&#8217;s no excitement. There is no excitement about the payload, about what&#8217;s going on with the astronauts. Yeah, we raised with the astronauts from the airplane and that was really something. So we, 150 people, brought a new take on it, because it was all new to us and we wanted to share video and interviews and all that with our audience, and the story for the news, the main news outlets were the tweet up, we were the news on NASA, etc. So it was really interesting to talk to Miles O&#8217;Brien and all the others, and get the world treatment on the press mound. And of course the excitement of the shuttle start, it was really changing for me, and the Explorer part of it was really interesting. So I can&#8217;t really put it into words still. Yeah, after 15 years I am back there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I thought, oh yes, this comes good together and let&#8217;s do a show on the Gutenberg Changelog about the NASA website and bring this all together. So what will we talk about today? I think we have three main topics. One is briefly talk about the scale of the project, because it&#8217;s enormous. We talk about the sites, the people, the blocks, the processing, the time that it takes to bring something together. And then, we talk about the actual block and theme development about design systems migration. And then, the last part was, it&#8217;s the most important part actually, one of the paths was clear for the development, how did the content creators then needed to be trained, the publishing flow revamped, what new sites were built, new pages built and all that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And there is another news part of it, April 8th, talking about scale, right? April 8th, what happened there was NASA live-streamed the solar eclipse, the one in 35 years, and there&#8217;s only one traffic number that I know about, and that is between four and a half hour span, one billion requests made to the NASA.gov website, with a large majority served under 400 milliseconds. So this is a real scaled operation. I don&#8217;t think that many other websites get, in that amount of time, so much traffic. How did that feel, Gary and Stacy? You probably were watching as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Gary Kovar:</em> Oh yes. I traveled to view the Eclipse in person and I took my laptop with me. So as I was sitting there waiting, I was tethered and kind of watching traffic increase and yeah, stunning. Certainly the busiest site I&#8217;ve worked on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> How did you see the solar eclipse, Stacy?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Stacy Holtz:</em> Yeah, same. I was not traveling, but I was running back and forth between my kitchen and the back deck to put my glasses on and view it, and then come back and check on everything, and make sure our user community didn&#8217;t need any support of any kind. So definitely it was a fun day.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Gary Kovar:</em> And I will say, some of the reason that we were able to handle that kind of traffic is there was plenty of prep. Obviously eclipses don&#8217;t sneak up on us, so we knew it was coming, and both on the content creator side and the technical side, we were able to posture ourselves for this expected increase in traffic and extremely thrilled with how it all went.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, that&#8217;s awesome. And the latest web news about NASA, of course there are others, plenty of news and you can all check it out on NASA.gov, but the latest news is that NASA got the Webby Awards for the new live stream site. Congratulations to you all and the team. That&#8217;s wonderful. So what is that live site about? What was that? How did that come to pass?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Gary Kovar: </em>Yeah, so NASA Plus is pretty cool. NASA, of course, everybody has a streaming service, so why shouldn&#8217;t NASA, right? So plus.nasa.gov is NASA&#8217;s streaming service. The neat part is it&#8217;s a WordPress site, and so WordPress functions is the control room for content creators to put together playlists and spotlight content. Any live event that takes place is run through and both live on plus.nasa.gov. And higher traffic stuff is co-streamed on www.nasa.gov. But you can install the plus, well you can sell the NASA app on any device and have live-streaming. It&#8217;s cool. Very cool. And the part that blows my mind every time I fired up on my Apple TV is that it&#8217;s just hitting the WordPress rest API. That&#8217;s pretty wild to me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, yeah, no, I can see that. Yeah, it&#8217;s really pushing the envelope on that, on the rest API, definitely. Yeah. So take us back to now, not how did this come to pass? Well, NASA 20-year-old content, I think they started way in 2000, well maybe even earlier, with putting stuff on the web, but so what was the project like? What was the scale of the project? When you went in there, how did you it to even scope it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Gary Kovar:</em> I was fortunate to join the project after some decisions had been made, CMS had already been chosen. There was a long conversation around that before deciding on WordPress. And so, I joined when development was very much in process. But I think even before that, it&#8217;s worth pointing out that the first domino that caused all this was the 21st Century Idea Act that talked about modernizing websites. And so, NASA certainly, a technical organization, every group center, club, cafeteria, all had a website, because it was important to have this information available. And they get that part innately and ended up where many agencies, both federally and otherwise have ended up, in that they have a sprawling footprint across the internet. And the Idea Act, further pushed by a memo &#8217;23, &#8217;22, last year, basically said we got to make this better for users. And so, NASA really went after that and found partners that could help them get to this point.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So when I joined Lone Rock Point, development was already in process and there were lists of things that needed to happen before launch. Like there&#8217;s thousands of sites that needed to be consolidated and we have content across four different major versions of the WWW site, and a lot of minor things that we&#8217;re also resolving at WWW at different addresses, that all needed to come in to make this thing live. There were some sections that to the federal law, the URL had to change the same, so there were perma link structures that needed to be considered, and it was this just massive checklist of items to get through, page after page of how do you account for that, how do you account for that? And on top of it, a really specific goal of giving content creators the tooling they needed to really tell the story, and give a compelling introduction or compelling reason