s about 30-40% of support volume, answering common and repetitive questions quickly. This allows Happiness Engineers to focus on more complex and creative customer problems, improving overall support quality.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Simplifying Website Creation</strong>: Big Sky, Automattic&#8217;s most ambitious AI project, aims to help users—especially those with no web design experience—build their first website on WordPress.com. By generating an initial layout, users can easily modify their site without starting from scratch.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Empowering Small Businesses</strong>: Automattic’s AI tools, particularly in WooCommerce, aim to democratize e-commerce by giving small businesses access to tools that are typically available to larger companies. These tools can help artisans and entrepreneurs create professional websites without the need for technical expertise.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Balancing Flexibility and Opinionation</strong>: A recurring theme is the challenge of balancing flexibility with providing opinionated guidance. Automattic&#8217;s goal is to maintain the customizable nature of WordPress and WooCommerce while offering users more structured, streamlined experiences with the help of AI.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Future of E-commerce Analytics</strong>: Automattic is also working on improving WooCommerce analytics with AI-driven insights that can provide actionable feedback for merchants. This includes personalized suggestions on how to improve store performance based on industry benchmarks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>AI’s Role in Democratizing Technology</strong>: The discussion highlights how AI can lower the barriers for small business owners, reducing the complexity and cost of building and managing websites, and allowing them to compete with larger brands.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 10 Sep 2024 00:23:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:12;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:88:\"WPTavern: WordPress Community Team to Close Inactive Meetup Groups by September 16, 2024\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=161213\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:98:\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-community-team-to-close-inactive-meetup-groups-by-september-16-2024\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2245:\"<p>Automattic’s Community Engagement Specialist, Devin Maeztri, has <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/09/06/final-reminder-inactive-meetup-groups-will-be-closed-in-september-2024/\">announced</a> that the WordPress Community Team will close all inactive meetup groups by September 16, 2024. Over the past month, the team has been working hard to reactivate recently inactive WordPress Meetups.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>“This project comes in response to recent data revealing that nearly half of our groups are currently inactive—a statistic that underscores the need for proactive measures.”, Devin <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/06/28/reactivating-inactive-meetup-groups/\">explained.</a> As of June 2024, there are more than 762 WordPress Meetup groups across 108 countries and nearly 537,000 members.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The Community Team released a <a href=\"https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZQtvn2fHQRFcgxSM64vXWE8yY0CqcPkrEVzpVowi8sQ/edit?gid=0#gid=0\">list of inactive Meetups</a> at risk of removal from the WordPress Chapter Meetup Program. Organizers have until <strong>September 16</strong> to confirm if they wish to remain active.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>As per the list, 22 meetups have already requested closure. Spain leads with six closure requests, followed by the USA (4), France (3), and Indonesia (3).</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meetup groups that fail to respond will be removed from the WordPress Chapter Meetup Program. Currently, 140 groups are yet to respond, with the largest numbers coming from the USA (33), Italy (8), Brazil (7), Spain (6), India (6), and Venezuela (4).</p>\n\n\n\n<p>“Once a group is removed from the WordPress network, Meetup.com will guide Co-organizers, Assistant Organizers, Event Organizers, and Members on how to keep the group active independently (including managing the subscription fee).”, Devin assured.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Since June 2024, WordPress.com has<a href=\"https://wordpress.com/blog/2024/06/16/free-wordpress-meetup-site/\"> offered free websites</a> for local WordPress meetups.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Organizers who believe their group was mistakenly flagged as inactive and groups that wish to rejoin the WordPress network after removal can contact the Community Team at support@wordcamp.org.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 09 Sep 2024 17:42:58 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:13;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:63:\"WPTavern: Pedraum Pardehpoosh Joins Automattic as VP of Product\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=161236\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:74:\"https://wptavern.com/pedraum-pardehpoosh-joins-automattic-as-vp-of-product\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1755:\"<p>Last week, Automattic <a href=\"https://automattic.com/2024/09/03/welcome-pedraum-pardehpoosh/\">announced</a> Pedraum Pardehpoosh as its new Vice President of Product. Though a new face in the WordPress arena, he brings extensive tech experience from both startups and major corporations like Walmart, Apple, and Airbnb. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>In the announcement, Automattic shared, “As VP of Product, Pedraum will oversee product excellence across Automattic, beginning by immersing himself in the open source WordPress ecosystem that drives innovation for 43% of the Internet.”&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>I’m thrilled to be joining Automattic. My top focus will be to understand the WordPress ecosystem deeply, first and foremost. After that, I hope to help foster a culture of product development, befitting a company of Automattic’s stature. With so much talent and so many great ideas that go along with that, I expect the top challenges will be prioritization and focus.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8211; Pedraum Pardehpoosh</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>Automattic’s product portfolio includes WordPress.com, Woo, Jetpack, WordPress VIP, Simplenote, Longreads, The Atavist, WPScan, Akismet, Gravatar, Crowdsignal, Cloudup, Tumblr, Day One, Pocket Casts, Newspack, and Beeper.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Pedraum’s appointment comes during an exciting time for Automattic as they <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/automattic-is-migrating-tumblr-to-wordpress\">migrate Tumblr to WordPress</a>. The company is actively hiring for this <a href=\"https://automattic.com/work-with-us/tumblr-migration/\">migration</a> and other roles, with open positions listed <a href=\"https://automattic.com/work-with-us/\">here</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 09 Sep 2024 17:17:40 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:14;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:111:\"Do The Woo Community: AI, Adaptability, and the Future of eCommerce, Insights from Gigi JK and Steve Tamulewicz\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85589\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:107:\"https://dothewoo.io/ai-adaptability-and-the-future-of-ecommerce-insights-from-gigi-jk-and-steve-tamulewicz/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30107:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-23 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p class=\"has-secondary-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-9acf640b7ba38a84a982fc35d618387f\">This show is sponsored by&#8230;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-22 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-6 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-21 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-13 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-20 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"600\" height=\"600\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/GoDaddy-square.png?resize=600%2C600&ssl=1\" alt=\"GoDaddy\" class=\"wp-image-75131\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-container-content-14\"> <strong><a href=\"https://godaddy.com\">GoDaddy</a></strong>: Build your clients sites using the flexibility of a <strong>Managed WooCommerce Store from GoDaddy</strong>. If you clients are looking to expand their store, you can deliver them a fully-customized WooCommerce site.</p>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p>Gigi:<br />Good morning, Steve. How are you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />I&#8217;m well, Gigi, and yourself?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Doing well too, thank you. So, for this podcast, let me introduce myself. I am Gigi JK. I run an eCommerce engineering company.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />And I am Steve Tamulewicz with eCreations out of Phoenix, Arizona. Also a WordPress and WooCommerce platform engineer as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Alright, so a little bit more about my company. We are a WooCommerce certified agency. However, we have expertise in multiple eCommerce platforms, and we differentiate ourselves from most of the other agencies by being an eCommerce engineering company. The reason why is that, for us, eCommerce is like a car rally, and in order to win the race, you need a great driving team—that&#8217;s your marketing agency—and then you need a great hardcore engineering team to figure out what the right car engineering you need to have and what the right gears it should have. That&#8217;s where Virtina comes in. I started as a software engineering company, Virtina. Then we saw this need in the marketplace for a good software engineering company, just like a good car engineering company. There was a need for a great eCommerce engineering company. So we shifted the focus from being a software engineering company to an eCommerce engineering company. The last point is, 90%—no, 98%—of my clients are small to medium-sized businesses. But once in a while, we get a client like Amazon or the world&#8217;s largest democratic country. When they get into trouble, and somehow our name gets passed around, they come to us, and we do a good job at it. And we have other agencies also work with us behind the scenes, in front of the scenes, etc.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />So, we, on the other hand, are focused on Woo. So, when we have clients who come to us with a certain challenge, we want to understand what our client&#8217;s end game is. And a lot of times, if they&#8217;re sold on a different platform than Woo, I haven’t done my job. But if they are, I will turn them over to XII, or if they need someone in their specific geographic region, we work with other verified experts as we are, and as you are, Gigi. But you&#8217;re absolutely right when you say that we have to understand the client, and I love the race car analogy. We’ve got to put together the pieces. I still need to make a living, but if it’s not right for the client, I’m not going to put myself in that position. So, most of our clientele is probably mid-to-enterprise level, and I think you and I are probably one of six or seven in the country who get that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I always get the calls to fix things, but a lot of times, when other agencies or freelancers say, &#8220;This can&#8217;t be done,&#8221; you call one of us guys. So, we like the data analysis. We like working with them to make sure that they come up with the right solution, whether it be Woo or not. If it is, great, we&#8217;ll work with them, and we&#8217;ll start doing the architecture and going through that. If it&#8217;s not, then we have no problem referring. As a background, Gigi and I, we met—was it in &#8217;16 or &#8217;17?—up in Seattle at WordCamp. It was a good party.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Just before COVID.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />Yes. So, I think that kind of sums up what we do. I was thinking about this podcast, Gigi, and I wanted to ask you—you brought up a good segue—did COVID affect you? And if it did, did you become busier? Did you slow down? How did that happen? What was your experience with the whole COVID thing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Very good question. By being in this space, competing with other digital marketing agencies, with our background, we have specific challenges every day, right? I&#8217;m talking specifically, as I mentioned, we are a software engineering company focused on eCommerce, right? We are not a marketing agency, and we compete with the marketing agents, the gurus, the pundits, and experts who are really good in marketing. We compete with them. When COVID happened, it just hit us really badly. We had to take certain steps internally. I&#8217;m very grateful to my team, some of whom have been with me for more than a decade—even predating me in the company—and the team stuck with us, giving me a lot of support to go through those challenges. We learned a lot of things that made us resilient.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Today, when a lot of agencies went out of business, and other businesses as well, we are still here. And if I sum up what made us strong, it was how to market better. Our marketing became our storytelling, and our marketing became way better because COVID forced us to do that. That’s one thing. The second thing we learned is that our lead source used to be leads from partner platforms and organic. The shift was, 90% of the leads came from platforms and 10% from organic. Today, because of COVID, we were able to change the equation to just the opposite—90%, 98% from organic, and almost 1% from any other sources. It taught us a lot of lessons. How about you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />So, it was interesting. It was challenging. We were considered essential with what we do, and I give my team credit. Again, I&#8217;ll give my team more credit than you gave yours, how’s that? Without my team—they all had options to work from home, and we had the protocols in place, obviously—but it was odd because there was a paradigm shift. I think we have a lot of brick-and-mortar and online clients, and we deal with a lot of clients that have both. Because brick-and-mortar sales went down, their eCommerce sales just went through the roof, and that opened everyone&#8217;s eyes. They realized, &#8220;Hey, we were able to do this in the store, we need to be able to do that online too.&#8221; And short of coding &#8220;smell-o-vision,&#8221; it was very difficult and challenging for us to be quickly reactive based on the decline of in-store traffic and the increase in online traffic. So, we got through it. It was fun, it was challenging, and it was definitely a learning experience. I think with the whole COVID era of 2020 and 2021, everyone learned, especially with online commerce. Regardless of the platform, I think everyone learned that it’s here to stay. Obviously, you have all these stores still today going out of business, and I believe that’s because online commerce really accelerated during the COVID period.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah, true. There has been a big shift in the last, let’s say, 12 months with the advent of AI. I am curious to know—</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />That I fired all my developers? I use ChatGPT for all my code.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah. How is that affecting your marketing, your lead flow, the Google changes—GA or Mute—sometimes it&#8217;s there, sometimes it&#8217;s not there, right? And SEO versus GEO, all that AI stuff—how is it affecting your agency?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />So, we use AI as a pretty decent springboard. When we are in charge of content, product descriptions, or whatever the case may be, and we get writer&#8217;s block or creative block—it happens in every agency, right?—we’ll go to ChatGPT or another AI tool and say, &#8220;Okay, write me a description that says this.&#8221; And then it&#8217;s like, &#8220;Okay, alright, now I can get started.&#8221; It’s kind of like a kickstart, but then you have to make sure that it’s not recognized as AI. But we use it as a clutch in an engine. Going back to your race car analogy, we use it just to warm up the engine a little bit. Do you use it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Of course, right. We’ve been using it for idea generation and idea evaluation, in terms of any form of content—idea generation and evaluation. When it comes to creating the meat of it—let’s say we’re talking a blog—we can create the table of contents, figure out and evaluate the ideas, topics, etc., and decide what’s good and what’s bad. Then we start generating the content. Well, initially—I&#8217;m smiling because about a year ago when I started pushing AI to our content writers, it took me about four or five months to change their minds because they were used to writing a certain way. Now here comes the tool. They said, &#8220;No, no, no, no!&#8221; But over time, their attitude changed. Now, today, we use the AI to write the content and then use human expertise to make sure it’s providing unique value and a unique perspective whenever we produce something.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />And the right voice. It’s got to be the right tone and the right voice for the company you’re writing for.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Exactly. But on the other hand, back in the day—when I say back in the day, let’s say six years ago—Google became stronger, and we had the problem of information overload. Everybody had that problem of information overload. There was a lot of information everywhere, and how do you condense that information? Then comes AI. Now we are able to take a huge amount of information, condense it, and ask, “What’s the expertise or the focus you&#8217;re looking for?” You</p>\n\n\n\n<p>can get the answers you want very fast. Sometimes, down to a three-word answer from a 5,000-word article. That’s amazing. Then we started thinking, &#8220;If we take that analogy, how can we help our customers? Is there a tool that will help us do the same thing for them?&#8221; Our customers are mostly small- to medium-sized businesses—business owners and marketing decision-makers. When it comes to their eCommerce businesses, they’re trying to figure out their strategy, their competitors, understanding their customers&#8217; needs and wants, and how to extrapolate a marketing strategy. Then, they have to figure out feature gaps, conversion gaps, and so on. So, I’ve been in search of a tool, and I recently found one called Inverse Hub. It’s not publicly available yet, but we’ve been lucky to be the initial guinea pigs. We’ve been testing it, and so far, it’s doing a great job for our very solid customers. We are using AI to help our clients understand their competitive landscape, their buyers&#8217; needs and wants based on data, and to understand their strengths and weaknesses. It’s creating strategies, action plans, content calendars, and all of the above. AI accelerates all of that. So, that&#8217;s the angle I&#8217;m very excited about in the last three months. Having that kind of partnership will help us succeed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />I think it’s interesting with AI because, as a broader picture, it’s still in its infancy. The longer this goes, the more it’s a double-sided coin. It’s there to help, but I’m a little nervous to see what else it’s going to be able to do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />I can tell you what it&#8217;s going to do, based on my understanding. It’s going to help us make better, faster, more accurate decisions. That’s the benefit of it. But, it&#8217;s also going to make us dumb. Even though we’re making better, faster, and more accurate decisions, the tool is going to make us dumb. So, those who can stay sharp with the tool, understanding both the positives and negatives, are going to be the ones who win the race.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />Interesting take on that, sir.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />So, it’s going to make us not think for ourselves?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Not exactly. But, if we can think <em>with</em> the tool…</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />Yes, there we go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Like with Inverse Hub. I really love that tool—that&#8217;s why I’m saying its name again. Similar tools will emerge in every industry. People who can think using the tool like that are going to be the true winners. But if somebody is going to truly depend upon and rely 100% on the tool itself…</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />I got you. I think we both use AI in kind of the same way. It’s interesting that your content writers didn’t want to touch it for a while, because I have three writers, and they looked at me and said, &#8220;Okay, let’s give this a shot.&#8221; I told them, &#8220;You better, because your deadline’s at 5 o’clock today.&#8221; So all of a sudden, it went from hesitation to adoption. I think for us, it may have been a quicker acceptance. But, as tools progress, it gets easier and easier. What was your first IDE that you used, right? Yeah, right after Notepad or Notepad++, and now they have things that will just automatically finish the flow. It’s an interesting time, and everything’s still young.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah. Someone told me last week that something came out in the market called Cursor, I think—code generator using natural language. There&#8217;s a lot of buzz around it now. I don’t know if it’s the talk of the town, but there’s a lot of buzz. I need to take a deep dive into it. I always wonder, and this is one of the positions I have—I always wonder how this will affect platforms like Shopify, WooCommerce, and BigCommerce. Let’s say three years from now, would I be able to generate a completely rich-featured eCommerce platform, better than my competition, addressing and understanding the needs of my customers, with all the features built in? What if it knows everything, and all it takes is a few lines of commands to generate it, right? So would that happen? If that happens, what will happen to the platforms?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />I&#8217;ll tell you what would happen, in my opinion. You’d have the dog chasing its tail, hypothetically. If I can upload a photo of a product into some platform, and all of a sudden everything just starts spitting out, my competitor is going to do the same thing. So now it&#8217;s going to come in, and it might really increase the competitiveness of commerce. I think it has the potential to do that. I’m sure it has that potential now. I still want the human touch, because it&#8217;s important. Regardless of whether you say, &#8220;Hey, write this in the tone of so-and-so,&#8221; you still need some human interaction. I think there will always be a need for people with fingers and toes and eyes and ears.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah, I totally agree. This goes back to what we discussed a couple of minutes ago: the people who are going to depend upon the tool itself are going to die; they are going to become extinct. But the people who understand the tool, and then bring their human intelligence, are going to be the winners. I totally agree with that. But at the same time, as these tools become more mature, our need to be involved gets lesser and lesser. At some point, how will these platforms affect the game? How will the competitive landscape of the platforms themselves be affected?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />So, AI keeps you up at night, thinking about it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah, it does. It does. Nowadays, I’ll tell you, getting older, and when we go to doctors, they’ll start prescribing us medicines. I come back, I put it into ChatGPT, just to make sure, &#8220;How does this react with my history?&#8221; Without my name or any identifiers, I can create avatars and say, &#8220;Hey, this guy, these are the problems, these are the medications. The next doctor—what should I watch for?&#8221; Even with that, it is giving me really good advice. The doctor prevails, of course. I’d say I’m a bit on the riskier side of that, but it’s okay for me because I have this tool, and I have the doctor as well. So I’m not completely AI-based, but before, I didn’t even have that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />We all got our medical degrees from Google, and now we can get them from AI. That’s funny.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />I’m curious to know how your company, eCreations, uses AI beyond content generation. What other ways do you use it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />With AI?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />So, content calendar—everything dealing with content, obviously. Or if we get stuck and we’ve got a rogue semicolon somewhere, or this isn&#8217;t working, or this custom extension isn’t working that we&#8217;re making for Woo, ChatGPT will, again, shed light on maybe something we missed. It may give us a snippet of code that makes us say, &#8220;Interesting. Okay, cool.&#8221; So I think it provides us, again, with content, ideas, and answers to quick questions. But it also assists us with maybe a different set of eyes. Like, &#8220;Here’s my code, and I need it to do this,&#8221; or whatever the case may be. Again, just as content writers have content block, sometimes if you’re coding a custom plugin for Woo, or an extension, or whatever, you’re going through your thought process, and you’ve got your systems architecture in place. Everything’s great, planned and dandy, but you forgot a component. We’ve used that for funnels—not only for creation, but verification, and also just double-checking. Like, &#8220;Hey, what else am I forgetting?&#8221; kind of thing. So we use it as another tool to look at something with a different perspective.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />I see. Yeah. I’ll tell you. So, you primarily use it for content and code quality. We started with content, then went into code quality. Nowadays, my QA team is coming up with AI-based tools to increase the effectiveness of the QA itself. They use certain tools like TestRigor, and there’s another one, so they use these tools even beyond automated test tools like Selenium and others. Their life is getting better and easier, and therefore, more effective, using an AI-based QA process. Our UX team uses AI to understand the effectiveness of designs. They identify conversion leaks before they convert the designs into actual pages. We take that, and we’re just beginning to use that tool for ourselves to figure out our competitive landscape and marketing strategies—how to expand. So we started using that internally. Also, someone was telling me yesterday—you know the saying that every 18 months technology doubles in size or increases? Yesterday someone told me that’s now happening every 10 hours. Technology is making changes by many folds every 10 hours. I can see that in my business. The more and more we identify use cases to improve, not only our customer’s lives and their businesses but our own business as well, using AI. I’m very glad to see that it’s coming. And I’m not the only one driving this, pushing this. I used to be the one. Now our team leads are coming to me and the management team saying, &#8220;Why</p>\n\n\n\n<p>can&#8217;t we do this? Can we look into this?&#8221; So it’s exciting. It’s exciting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />You know what? That’s another good thing here, and I want your input on this. You and I have known each other for many years, and it was good to see Bob again. I saw him in San Diego in—was it 2020?—yeah, it was COVID time. So, I’d like to think that we’re the best in Phoenix, but there are other agencies around. There are agencies like you, Joe, Johnny, and everybody else, and we all get along. We see each other on the WooExperts channel through Automattic. And when we get together, there’s always this tension that I never quite understood. Not between us, but with other agency owners, it&#8217;s like, &#8220;Hey, we’re all in the same ocean, we’re all in the same sea,&#8221; but there’s always this competition. I didn’t mean to bring that up earlier, where I’m going to crush you because I like you quite a bit. So, I understand the competitive part of it, and I understand that everyone has their specialty. If someone wants Shopify, I don’t do it, you do. So boom, we’re done. And at the end of the day, the client is at least directed to someone who can help, right? I’m curious to see if you’ve also ever experienced or are experiencing this fight to the death with other agencies, like, &#8220;My job is to get the deal, get the deal, get the deal!&#8221; Are you in that boat, or is it just a Phoenix thing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />I would say I have not experienced it. The reason I haven’t experienced it is that I have a couple of guys who watch the Slack space, what’s going on, and then whenever I need something, they tell me, &#8220;You get on it.&#8221; So I am always where they need me most, and I’m there. So, I don’t go into that kind of level to experience that. That’s why you don’t see me much at all in the gatherings, community gatherings, etc. I’m a little busy. If you need me, any agency needs me, I’m there deep. And you have been, too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />Yes, yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />So, it is unfortunate, but I believe it is there. I’m lucky not to experience that, but it is unfortunate that you identified that the ocean is big enough, and it is growing. There are agencies—well, we don’t discriminate against project sizes. We are fascinated. One of the biggest companies in the world came to us—this is in the office equipment business—they came to us, and the first project was $1,500. There was a high-risk merchant who came to us, and the first project was like $3,000. Then, he became a $75,000-per-year customer. He stayed with us, and in three years, that client became a $6 million client. So, this is eCommerce. We don’t discriminate against project size or revenue size. We love the complexity of it. But then there are agencies coming to us saying, &#8220;This is a $20,000 project, help us. We don’t want it,&#8221; or, &#8220;This is a $10,000 project, we don’t want it. Do you want it?&#8221; We take it. So, we operate in more of a collaborative space rather than a competitive one. What I’m trying to say is that kind of mechanism or mechanics is in the marketplace. But the ocean is big enough for us all to survive.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />Yeah, it’s always interesting finding different agency owners&#8217; perspectives on it. It might be a city thing, because I have a lot of friends like you in different cities, and they’re in a very competitive, bigger city. And it’s like, guys, quantity, quality, or cost—choose two, because you can’t have all three. It’s all about the dollars with these larger organizations that say, &#8220;Hey, I have X number of dollars to spend. I’ve got to spend it by the end of the year. Here’s the scope of work. Can you do it for X?&#8221; And if the answer is no, they just move on. Then I’ll talk to you in six to eight months because you&#8217;re not going to get it delivered. It’s going to be bug-ridden, etc., etc., etc. So, I was curious to get your input on that. And yes, you are a busy person, I’ll give you that, too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah, I’m lucky to have a couple of companies, a couple of agencies, that have partnerships with us. Maybe you’re too much out in the open. Maybe everybody’s seeing you as a threat, Steve, because you are a better marketer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />Look at me, I’m not a threat!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />They see me as a network geek. &#8220;Oh, he’s a software engineering guy. He’s not a threat. He doesn’t know anything about marketing, that’s fine. He’s not a threat.&#8221; If they see you as a marketing agency guy, you’ve got more marketing muscle under your belt than me. I think that may be the reason.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />Well, I always love talking to you, Gigi. I really do. And I’m glad that we kept in touch since we first met. But enjoy Florida. Take care of yourself, your family, and your team. And with that, I think this was a good conversation. I appreciate you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah, likewise. It has been a wonderful journey so far. I’m glad that we crossed paths about six or seven years ago. It has been a blessing, Steve, and I wish you the best, both personally and professionally. If there’s anything I can do to help, please let me know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />The door’s open here too. So, if you ever get sick of the humidity down in Florida, come out to the heat in Phoenix. Today it’s 103 degrees!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Every day it rains, and it’s crazy humid! We’re going to be about 103 today, too. Yeah, it’s crazy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Steve:<br />Alright, my friend. Thank you again. We’ll talk soon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi:<br />Alright, thank you.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode of<strong><em> Woo AgencyChat</em></strong>, <strong>Gigi J. Kizhakkechethipuzha</strong>, founder of <strong>Virtina</strong>, an eCommerce engineering company, joins <strong>Steve Tamulewicz</strong> from <strong>eCreations</strong>, a WooCommerce and WordPress platform engineering expert. Together, they dive into the all things with running a WooCommerce agency, the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, and how their companies adapted to the shifting landscape.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gigi and Steve share how they approach ecommerce challenges, from competing with marketing agencies to solving complex client problems. The conversation also dives into the increasing role of AI in the industry, discussing both its advantages and potential drawbacks. </p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>The Shift to eCommerce During COVID-19</strong>: Both Gigi and Steve shared how their businesses adapted during the COVID-19 pandemic. Brick-and-mortar stores faced significant challenges, but eCommerce sales surged, highlighting the importance of having a strong online presence. The pandemic forced many companies to improve their digital strategies and embrace eCommerce as a permanent part of their business model.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>The Role of AI in eCommerce</strong>: AI has become a valuable tool for idea generation, content creation, and problem-solving in both companies. Gigi and Steve discussed how they use AI tools like ChatGPT to overcome creative blocks and code challenges, but both emphasized the need for human oversight to ensure the final product aligns with the brand&#8217;s tone and goals. AI is still in its infancy, and while it accelerates processes, companies need to stay sharp and not rely on it exclusively.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Collaboration Over Competition</strong>: Gigi emphasizes the importance of collaboration among agencies rather than seeing each other as competitors. He believes the &#8220;ocean is big enough&#8221; for everyone to thrive, and partnerships can lead to better outcomes for clients and businesses alike. Steve shares that some agency environments are highly competitive, but he shares Gigi’s perspective that collaboration is key to long-term success.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Adaptability is Key to Growth</strong>: Both guest co-hosts highlight how adaptability has been critical to their success. Whether it&#8217;s shifting lead generation strategies, using new AI tools, or adjusting to market changes, being flexible and open to new technologies and methodologies has allowed them to stay ahead in the rapidly evolving eCommerce space.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Future of eCommerce Platforms</strong>: Gigi raises an interesting point about the future of platforms like Shopify, WooCommerce, and BigCommerce, wondering if AI will one day generate fully-featured eCommerce platforms based on customer needs. This could lead to a more competitive landscape where businesses can more easily adopt advanced eCommerce solutions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Human Expertise Still Matters</strong>: Despite the growing use of AI, both Gigi and Steve agree that human expertise remains crucial. AI can assist with tasks, but human insight, creativity, and decision-making are still essential for success, particularly in complex eCommerce projects.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://ecreations.net/\">eCreations</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://virtina.com/\">Virtina</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/gigijk/\">Gigi on LinkedIn</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevetamulewicz/\">Steve on LinkedIn</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://testrigor.com/\">Test Rigor</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://www.selenium.dev/\">Selenium</a></strong></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 09 Sep 2024 08:50:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:15;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:20:\"Matt: Timex Datalink\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=124976\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:37:\"https://ma.tt/2024/09/timex-datalink/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:897:\"<p>I had a huge nostalgia blast today with this video from <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/@LGR\">Lazy Game Reviews</a> showing and setting up a <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timex_Datalink\">Timex Datalink watch</a>, which was a &#8220;smart&#8221; watch that would show data that you transmitted to it by holding it in front of your CRT monitor and it flashing a bunch of lines.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s hard to describe how much my Ironman Triathlon Datalink watch was my entire world when I was a little kid, I was totally obsessed with it. I filled up every bit of its memory with numbers and notes. And the Indiglo!</p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<img width=\"604\" height=\"882\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/ma.tt/files/2024/09/Timex_Ironman_Triathlon_Datalink.jpeg?resize=604%2C882&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-125000\" /></div>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 07 Sep 2024 17:06:42 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:16;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:100:\"Gutenberg Times: Roadmap WordPress 6.7, Design Systems, Data Views and more —  Weekend Edition 303\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=29884\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:104:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/roadmap-wordpress-6-7-design-systems-data-views-and-more-weekend-edition-303/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18540:\"<p>Hi,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We are sprinting towards a new WordPress version, and the two months until the final release will pass quickly!  The <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/09/03/roadmap-to-6-7/\"><strong>Roadmap to 6.7</strong></a> is now available. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;ve got a ton of websites to manage, whether you&#8217;re a product owner, agency dev, or consultant, it might be a good idea to get that testing schedule lined up. The <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-7/\">release cycle schedule</a> for WordPress 6.7 helps with that, for sure. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I just looked at the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/design/2024/09/06/data-views-update-1/\">latest on Data Views</a> in the site editor—super exciting stuff! It&#8217;s going to be a big part of the WordPress admin redesign, and you&#8217;ll be hearing and reading more about it soon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For now, have an awesome weekend and soak up the last bits of summer.  I can&#8217;t wait for the fall colors to start in Bavaria!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yours, ?<br /><em>Birgit</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p>PS. If you house your products on the WordPress repositories,  this post is for you. <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2024/09/04/upcoming-security-changes-for-plugin-and-theme-authors-on-wordpress-org/\"><strong>Upcoming Security Changes for Plugin and Theme Authors on WordPress.org</strong></a>. Set-up 2FA now. Don&#8217;t procrastinate! </p>\n\n\n\n<p>PPS: And if you have the feeling that this edition is too short, I bet, you haven&#8217;t read<a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/data-views-new-block-themes-template-registration-for-plugins-weekend-edition-302/\"> all the articles listed in last week&#8217;s edition</a>. &nbsp;&nbsp;?&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<p><strong>Table of Contents</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ol><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/roadmap-wordpress-6-7-design-systems-data-views-and-more-weekend-edition-303/#0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a><ol><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/roadmap-wordpress-6-7-design-systems-data-views-and-more-weekend-edition-303/#upcoming-online-live-wordpress-tutorials\">Upcoming Online Live WordPress Tutorials</a></li></ol></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/roadmap-wordpress-6-7-design-systems-data-views-and-more-weekend-edition-303/#0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/roadmap-wordpress-6-7-design-systems-data-views-and-more-weekend-edition-303/#2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/roadmap-wordpress-6-7-design-systems-data-views-and-more-weekend-edition-303/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </a></li></ol>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>The design team published the first update of a series on the progress of Data Views in <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/design/2024/09/06/data-views-update-1/\"><strong>Data Views Update #1</strong></a>. &#8220;This update is the start of a series to provide more frequent information about the latest and greatest, so folks can follow along, provide feedback, and explore using this component. It builds on the initial update&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/13/data-views-update-june-2024/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">shared in June</a>&nbsp;and will share biweekly updates going forward as it remains helpful.&#8221; </p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you are moved to start exploring the Data View component for your plugin, you get a head start reading through JuanMa Garrido&#8217;s <em><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/08/27/using-data-views-to-display-and-interact-with-data-in-plugins/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Using Data Views to Display and Interact with Data in Plugins</a></em>, where he explains how to add a&nbsp;React&nbsp;app to a plugin page and use the Data Views component to display a data list.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Thanks to the effort of release leads, <strong>Tonya Mork</strong> and <strong>Vicente Canales</strong>,  the release candidate 1 (RC1) for <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/09/04/wordpress-6-6-2-rc1-is-now-available/\"><strong>WordPress 6.6.2 </strong></a>has been available since September 4th. The final release will be on  September 10. It entails 15 fixes in Core and 11 fixes for the Block editor. Quite a few commits and PRs were dealing with issues caused by the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/21/wordpress-6-6-css-specificity/\">lowered CSS specificity</a>. It also fixed the bug around the derivative state for the Interactivity API and the post editor connected to iframe rendering. The list of all fixes are available in the RC 1 <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/09/04/wordpress-6-6-2-rc1-is-now-available/\">release post</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-accent-color has-light-background-background-color has-text-color has-background has-link-color wp-elements-44545c1be248d85a6508375132087a4f\">?️ Latest episode: <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-106-gutenberg-19-0-19-1-wordpress-6-7-outreach/\">Gutenberg Changelog #106 – Gutenberg 19.0, 19.1, WordPress 6.7 and Outreach channel</a> with special guest Jessica Lyschik</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Joen Asmussen</strong> outlines a cross-team effort, that&#8217;s  on the way to <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/design/2024/09/05/advancing-the-wordpress-design-system/\"><strong>Advancing the WordPress Design System</strong></a>. &#8220;The goal, specifically, is to bring together existing tools like&nbsp;<code>@wordpress/components</code>, the new&nbsp;Figma library, and&nbsp;Storybook&nbsp;into a unified design system reference site that anyone can use to contribute back to WordPress or extend WordPress in line with a shared design language.&nbsp;&#8221; he wrote. Asmussen also pointed to the <a href=\"https://react.ui.audi/?path=/docs/introduction--docs\">Storybook of car manufacturer Audi</a>,  to illustrate how something like this could look. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jyolsna JC</strong> at WPTavern reports on the <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-6-7-roadmap-includes-new-default-theme-apis-and-media-enhancements\"><strong>WordPress 6.7 Roadmap Includes New Default Theme, APIs, and Media Enhancements</strong></a>. &#8220;Anne has cautioned that the new features mentioned in the post are being actively pursued, but doesn’t necessarily mean each will make it into the final release of WordPress 6.7.” she wrote.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Reminder:<strong> Live Developer Hours </strong>will take place on September 10th at 15:00 UTC. <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/303059268/\"><strong>A First Look at the Template Registration API in WordPress 6.7</strong></a> Join&nbsp;<strong>Justin Tadlock&nbsp;</strong>and&nbsp;<strong>Nick Diego </strong>to discuss the feature and how to use it. Tadlock published a <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/08/29/registering-block-templates-via-plugins-in-wordpress-6-7/\">tutorial on the WordPress Developer blog</a> last week, that might give you a head start. Join the Developer Hours to get your questions answered. </p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/303059268/\"><img width=\"600\" height=\"338\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/dev-hours-2024-09-10.webp?resize=600%2C338&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29848\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"upcoming-online-live-wordpress-tutorials\">Upcoming Online Live WordPress Tutorials</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The training team has added a few more online tutorial on the roster on Meetup: </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>September 10, 2024, at 9:00 am UTC:</strong> <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/303105402/?eventOrigin=group_events_list\"><strong>Setting up a WordPress blog</strong></a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>September 11, 2024, at 12 am UTC</strong>: <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/303210069\"><strong>Creating Your Own Contact Form Plugin</strong></a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>September 12, 2024, at 14:00 UTC</strong>: <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/303122344/?eventOrigin=group_events_list\"><strong>Exploring the Query Loop block</strong></a></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Colin Newcomer</strong> take <a href=\"https://wpshout.com/first-look-at-twenty-twenty-five/\"><strong>First Look at the Upcoming Twenty Twenty-Five Default WordPress Theme</strong></a>. &#8220;Looking at the preview images, it kind of makes me think of Ikea – and that’s a compliment! I like its minimal looks and I think there are some great-looking patterns that users will be able to play around with.&#8221; he wrote. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Bud Kraus</strong> of <em>JoyofWP</em> posted a valuable tutorial on <a href=\"https://www.hostinger.com/tutorials/wordpress-style-guide\"><strong>how to create a simple style guide for your WordPress website</strong></a> on <em>Hostinger</em> blog. While big companies have designers for Style Guides, small business owners or freelancers can use the WordPress Site Editor, respectively the Style Book tab as their tool. The tutorial helps you make choices on color combinations and block styling to ensure a consistent look. Documenting your decisions ensures you’ll know how to update your site in the future. Kraus has notes for you depending on if you&#8217;re working within a block theme, a classic theme or with Elementor page builder.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Press This: podcast is back and host <strong>Brian Gardner</strong> discussed with his guest <strong>Rich Tabor</strong> how <a href=\"https://wpengine.com/blog/press-this-wordpress-design-tool/\"><strong>WordPress as a design tool empowers users to create</strong></a> unique designs using the platform&#8217;s versatile tools. Tabor emphasized how important user-friendly feature are for a flexible design.  </p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Anne McCarthy</strong> invites you to <a href=\"https://nomad.blog/2024/08/29/join-me-in-testing-block-bindings-api/\"><strong>help testing the Block Bindings UI</strong></a>, that&#8217;s still an experiment in the Gutenberg plugin. She shared on her personal blog all the information you need, including a demo video and the <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/#{%20%22preferredVersions%22:%20{%20%22php%22:%20%228.3%22,%20%22wp%22:%20%22latest%22%20},%20%22features%22:%20{%20%22networking%22:%20true%20},%20%22steps%22:%20[%20{%20%22step%22:%20%22login%22%20},%20{%20%22step%22:%20%22installTheme%22,%20%22themeZipFile%22:%20{%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wptrainingteam/tt4-book-reviews/master/_playground/tt4-book-reviews.zip%22%20},%20%22options%22:%20{%20%22activate%22:%20true%20}%20},%20{%20%22step%22:%20%22runPHP%22,%20%22code%22:%20%22%3C?php%20require%20\'/wordpress/wp-load.php\';%20$wpdb-%3Equery(\'delete%20from%20wp_posts\');%22%20},%20{%20%22step%22:%20%22importWxr%22,%20%22file%22:%20{%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wptrainingteam/tt4-book-reviews/master/_playground/site-content.xml%22%20}%20},%20{%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20{%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22gutenberg%22%20},%20%22options%22:%20{%20%22activate%22:%20true%20}%20},%20{%20%22step%22:%20%22runPHP%22,%20%22code%22:%20%22%3C?php%20require%20\'/wordpress/wp-load.php\';%20update_option(%20\'gutenberg-experiments\',%20array(%20\'gutenberg-block-bindings-ui\'%20=%3E%20true%20)%20);%22%20}%20]%20}\">Playground link to a test site</a></p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"652\" height=\"317\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Screenshot-2024-09-06-at-12.29.49.png?resize=652%2C317&ssl=1\" alt=\"Book reviews - Block Bindings\" class=\"wp-image-29956\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2024&#8221;</a>&nbsp;</strong><br />A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test, and Meta team from Jan. 2024 on. Updated by yours truly. The previous years are also available: <strong><strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/\">2020</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2021/\">2021</a></strong>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2022/\">2022</a></strong></strong>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2023\">2023</a></strong></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </h2>\n\n\n\n<p>In the upcoming<strong> <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/303059268/\">Developer Hours: A First Look at the Template Registration API in WordPress 6.7</a></strong> <strong>Justin Tadlock</strong> and <strong>Nick Diego</strong> will demonstrate will default front-end output demonstrate the basics of registration and how to integrate custom fields, block variations and more. Your questions will be answered in the Q &amp; A portion of the event.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Nick Diego</strong> published on his personal blog how it <a href=\"https://nickdiego.com/enabling-linked-group-blocks-in-wordpress/\"><strong>enabled linked Group blocks in WordPress</strong></a> and took a slightly different route than Damon Cook in <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/07/30/building-a-card-layout-with-a-hover-reveal-effect/\">his post</a> on the developer blog. Diego walk you through his thinking on implementing his vision on what&#8217;s necessary for the block editor view as and how he tackle the challenge on the front end. The final result is quite intriguing. </p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"652\" height=\"497\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/linked-group.webp?resize=652%2C497&ssl=1\" alt=\"Linked group block\" class=\"wp-image-29955\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/\">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now also available via <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json\">WordPress Playground</a>. There is no need for a test site locally or on a server. Have you been using it? <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">Email me </a>with your experience</p>\n\n\n\n<p><img alt=\"GitHub all releases\" src=\"https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center has-small-font-size\"><em>Questions? Suggestions? Ideas? </em><br /><em>Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">them via email</a> or</em><br /><em> send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph</em>.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center has-small-font-size\">For questions to be answered on the <a href=\"http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast\">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, <br />send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Featured Image: Tiles at Vancouver Airport by Birgit Pauli-Haack </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Don&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? </strong></p>\n\n\n<form class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-form ngl-form ngl-portrait\" action=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/\" method=\"post\"><div class=\"ngl-form-container\"><div class=\"ngl-form-field\"><label class=\"ngl-form-label\" for=\"ngl_email\"><br />Type in your Email address to subscribe.</label><div class=\"ngl-form-input\"><input type=\"email\" class=\"ngl-form-input-text\" name=\"ngl_email\" id=\"ngl_email\" /></div></div><button type=\"submit\" class=\"ngl-form-button\">Subscribe</button><p class=\"ngl-form-text\">We hate spam, too, and won&#8217;t give your email address to anyone <br />except Mailchimp to send out our Weekend Edition</p></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay\"><div class=\"ngl-message-svg-wrap\"></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay-text\">Thanks for subscribing.</div></div><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_list_id\" id=\"ngl_list_id\" value=\"26f81bd8ae\" /><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_double_optin\" id=\"ngl_double_optin\" value=\"yes\" /></form>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 07 Sep 2024 12:13:45 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:17;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:74:\"Gravatar: Why Digital Identity Management is Crucial for Modern Businesses\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=1630\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:102:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/08/01/why-digital-identity-management-is-crucial-for-modern-businesses/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14597:\"<p>Digital identity management is a series of processes that websites and companies use to ensure that individuals accessing their systems, networks, and data are who they claim to be. This helps in verifying and maintaining users&#8217; online presence and plays a significant role in keeping sensitive information safe from unauthorized access, which is mandated by privacy laws and regulations.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this article, we’ll discuss the complexities of securing online identities and guide you through the essentials of digital identity management. We’ll also show you how easy it is to start with <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a> – a user-friendly platform that simplifies managing online identities for individuals and organizations, ensuring security and ease of use.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Understanding digital identity management and access management</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>One common mistake companies make is to confuse digital identity management with access management. In reality, the two concepts are related but not quite the same, and it’s important to know the differences between them.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Digital identity management involves the creation, management, and retirement of online identities. It&#8217;s the electronic footprint that represents an individual within a system, critical for identifying and authenticating users.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This might include assigning each employee a unique identifier (like an email address) upon joining. This identifier is used to create profiles in the company&#8217;s systems, granting access to relevant applications and data based on their role. As employees move within the company, their access rights are updated or revoked accordingly, ensuring security and compliance. The process also includes authentication methods, such as passwords or biometrics, to verify identities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Access management focuses on regulating what resources a user can access within a system. It&#8217;s about setting and enforcing rules and policies linked to an individual&#8217;s online identity and determining their permissions within an organization&#8217;s digital space.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Two other important terms you’ll often come across in this space are Identity and Access Management (IAM) and Privileged Access Management (PAM). IAM covers the broad spectrum of managing user identities and their access rights, ensuring everyone has the appropriate entry to resources. PAM, however, narrows this focus to the high-stakes world of privileged accounts, those with the keys to the kingdom – meaning they have permissions to manage and secure access to critical systems and data.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>An effective digital identity management system is the foundation for solid access management. For instance, integrating a solution like <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a> can simplify the intricacies involved in both areas.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar is a tool that allows users to create digital identities linked to their email addresses, and you can connect your website to Gravatar’s API to import relevant user data when that user signs up to your website. This allows you to utilize Gravatar as your digital identity verification system, allowing you to set relevant access rights for your users.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Understanding attributes of digital identities</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Identifiers, attributes, and credentials are the foundation of digital identities, each playing an important role in online identity management. Let’s look at them in more detail:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Identifiers</strong>, such as usernames or email addresses, act as the entry point, linking each digital identity to a unique online presence. Gravatar, for example, uses email addresses as a universal identifier to create a globally recognized profile.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Attributes</strong>, the personal details associated with an identifier, range from names to contact information, painting a fuller picture of the identity. </li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Credentials</strong> include passwords, biometric data, or security tokens. They serve as the key to authenticating and validating an individual&#8217;s claim to identity.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Keeping these details accurate and safe is crucial. If things go wrong, someone could steal an identity, get into places they shouldn’t, or even cause data leaks. That&#8217;s why companies use advanced systems to protect this information and follow strict rules to guard privacy and safety.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Typical process of digital identity management</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>1. Provisioning and granting access</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>You start by setting up the different digital identities and user accounts across platforms. This can vary from one organization to another, but the process is more or less like this:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>User registration: </strong>Enter basic details like name, email, and password.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Verification:</strong> Confirm the email or phone via a sent link or code.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Multi-Factor Authentication (MFA):</strong> Set up an additional verification step for login (more on that in the next step). </li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Acceptance of terms: </strong>Agree to the terms of service and privacy policy.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Profile completion: </strong>Fill in additional personal or professional info.</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<p>Permissions for new users are set following guidelines from standards such as <a href=\"https://www.iso.org/standard/27001\" rel=\"nofollow\">ISO/IEC 27001</a>, ensuring secure access control from the start. This approach ensures that access levels are appropriately assigned according to the user&#8217;s role within the organization, laying a foundational layer of security. </p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>2. Authentication</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Authentication is mandatory, and it can be done in many different ways. From traditional passwords to Two-Factor Authentication (2FA) and biometrics, each method strengthens security in its unique way.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, managing multiple authentication methods across different platforms presents several challenges. It can lead to confusion among users who must remember various passwords and authentication steps, increasing the risk of password fatigue and security breaches.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For administrators, it complicates security protocols, requiring extensive resources to monitor and update these systems to ensure they remain secure and user-friendly. Additionally, integrating and maintaining compatibility across diverse platforms can be technically challenging and time-consuming, straining IT departments and potentially leading to gaps in security coverage.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>3. Authorization</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Authorization is what dictates the actions that authenticated users are permitted to perform. This process, distinct from authentication, involves assigning specific roles and permissions, a task that grows increasingly complex across different systems.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There are different ways of doing this:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Role-Based Access Control (RBAC): </strong>Assign access levels based on user roles (e.g., admin, editor).</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Attribute-Based Access Control (ABAC): </strong>Grant permissions based on attributes (e.g., department).</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Manual configuration: </strong>Admins manually set specific access rights as needed.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Default permissions: </strong>New accounts get basic access which can be adjusted later.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Self-service permissions: </strong>Users can request more access, pending admin approval.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>4. Lifecycle management</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The nature of digital identities requires continuous management throughout their lifecycle, from activation to eventual deactivation. The challenge here lies in ensuring these identities are accurately maintained and updated across numerous platforms. For example, companies need to make sure that ex-employees have zero access to important data such as accounts, documents, and passwords because they can take advantage of that.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To do this properly, businesses need to implement a systematic approach to manage these changes effectively and securely, preventing potential security vulnerabilities.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>5. Federation</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>A federation is a set of agreements and standards that enable using a single identity across multiple systems. With technologies like Single Sign-On (SSO) and Identity Providers (IdPs), users enjoy the convenience of accessing multiple services with one set of credentials.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar is a great example of this federated approach, allowing a single, consistent identity to be recognized and utilized across various services, thereby simplifying the user experience and enhancing security.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>6. Auditing</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Auditing is integral to ensuring that digital identity management processes remain compliant and secure. This involves comprehensive logging and monitoring, which can be a complex task for organizations with extensive digital footprints.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Effective auditing practices are crucial for detecting security breaches and ensuring adherence to regulatory standards, forming a backbone for secure digital identity management.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>How Gravatar facilitates digital identity management for website owners&nbsp;</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"403\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gravatar-homepage-1.png?w=660\" alt=\"Gravatar homepage\" class=\"wp-image-1636\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a> is a digital identity management solution for a wide range of online platforms, including websites, web applications, forums, eCommerce stores, and more.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It offers users the ability to create a digital identity linked to their email address, enabling this identity to be consistently recognized across any platform that integrates Gravatar&#8217;s services.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"373\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gravatar-profile-example.png?w=660\" alt=\"Gravatar profile example \n\" class=\"wp-image-1634\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Essentially what this means is that when someone signs up to your website, the information you get from them comes directly from their Gravatar profile. This simplifies digital identity management for you as a website owner as Gravatar handles the storage and management of all user data, alleviating administrative burden and compliance hurdles for you.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There are many benefits to using Gravatar:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Users carry their digital identity all over the web</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar stands out by providing what&#8217;s known as a “universal avatar”, a singular digital identity that moves with the user from one site to another. This universal recognition creates a streamlined online experience and means that you, as a website owner, can count on the accuracy and consistency of that user data.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Users don’t fill in data multiple times</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>One of the most tangible benefits of Gravatar is the fact that users no longer need to fill in their details on every new site they visit; instead, their Gravatar profile carries their information across the web. This feature not only makes online navigation more efficient for users but also contributes to higher engagement rates on websites, as the barrier to participation is markedly lowered.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Data storage and management are handled by Gravatar</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar&#8217;s role in handling data storage and management can be very beneficial for website owners and businesses. The platform securely stores user information and avatars, taking on the responsibility of managing this data, which can be a complex and security-sensitive task.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This offloads a considerable workload from organizations that might not have the resources or expertise to manage user data securely. Additionally, Gravatar’s adherence to data protection standards, including the <a href=\"https://gdpr-info.eu/\" rel=\"nofollow\">General Data Protection Regulation (EU GDPR)</a> and the <a href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa\" rel=\"nofollow\">California Consumer Privacy Act of 2018 (CCPA)</a>, ensures website owners comply with important privacy regulations, further reducing legal and operational risks.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>You can create personalized experiences with user data</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Despite its centralized approach to data management, Gravatar prioritizes user privacy, ensuring that site owners can only access the information that users have agreed to share. This arrangement supports the creation of personalized experiences on websites without compromising user privacy.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Website owners can tailor content, recommendations, and services to individual users based on the data available through Gravatar, enhancing user engagement and satisfaction.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Improve your digital identity strategy with Gravatar&nbsp;</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>With the growing amount of information stored online and the rise of cyber attacks, it’s becoming increasingly important for businesses to take digital identity management seriously, especially if they want to protect user data and streamline user experiences.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Adopting a third-party authentication service like <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a> can greatly simplify this process and help you efficiently handle the intricacies of digital identity management.&nbsp;Gravatar offers a secure, user-friendly platform that bridges the gap between privacy concerns and the desire for a fluid online experience. So, if you’re a business looking to improve its digital identity strategy, take a look at how Gravatar can serve as your ideal <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/\">identity management solution</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 06 Sep 2024 21:45:04 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:18;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:79:\"Gravatar: Step-by-Step Guide to Designing Effective User Onboarding Experiences\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=2130\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:64:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/09/06/onboarding-user-experience/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:24649:\"<p>User onboarding is the first interaction between your product and new users. It’s centered around guiding them through the initial setup and core features, helping them quickly grasp your product&#8217;s value.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>A well-designed onboarding experience boosts user retention and engagement by providing a clear, enjoyable introduction to your product</strong>. This increases the likelihood of users becoming long-term paying customers and advocates for your brand.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The science behind it is very simple! When users quickly grasp how your product can solve their problems or improve their lives, <strong>they&#8217;re more likely to explore its features and incorporate it into their routines.</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the benefits don’t stop there – effective onboarding is directly linked to revenue growth. Users who understand your product&#8217;s value are more likely to convert from free trials or upgrade to premium features.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Finally, what better way to get feedback and insights to refine your product than the one your users give during their onboarding?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now that you’re convinced that you cannot neglect this process in good conscience, this guide will walk you through creating an engaging user onboarding experience, covering best practices, key UX patterns, and optimization strategies.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Best practices for effective user onboarding</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Simplify the sign-up process</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Many things can drive users away before they start, including long and complex sign-up forms and the need to enter their information for new credentials. So, naturally, a simple sign-up process with <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/04/authentication-protocols/\">a wider selection of authentication techniques</a> helps more users complete it and start using your product.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here is how you can do this:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Ask for less:</strong> Only request essential information.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Spread out data collection:</strong> Gather more details over time as users engage.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Offer social logins:</strong> Let users sign up with existing accounts like Google or Facebook.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Use </strong><a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/09/single-sign-on-solutions/\" rel=\"nofollow\"><strong>Single Sign-On (SSO)</strong></a><strong>:</strong> One set of login details for multiple related services.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Apply smart defaults: </strong>Pre-fill fields when possible to save time.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>These tricks speed up sign-up and create a positive first impression as users don&#8217;t have to think as much or do extra work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For example, <a href=\"https://slack.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Slack</a> only asks for an email to start, letting users gradually complete their profile as they use the platform.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"1185\" height=\"632\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/magic-link-slack.png\" alt=\"Slack login screen\" class=\"wp-image-2133\" />\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>How Gravatar reduces sign-up friction</strong></h4>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"1473\" height=\"918\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/gravatar-profiles-as-a-service-1-1.png\" alt=\"Gravatar homepage\" class=\"wp-image-2134\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a> is a service by <a href=\"https://automattic.com/\">Automattic</a> that provides users with consistent avatars and <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/03/profiles-as-a-service/\">profile information</a> across websites and platforms. Developers can integrate this service into their products and improve the sign-up process by automatically adding user pictures and info on Gravatar-integrated sites.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This allows their users to take advantage of a consistent identity as they’ll have the same profile picture across sites.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"979\" height=\"554\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/gravatar-profile-example-1.png\" alt=\"Example of a Gravatar profile\" class=\"wp-image-2135\" />\n\n\n\n<p>It also reduces the time it takes to sign up because they don’t have to re-enter the same basic information every time.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Most importantly, this process is extremely secure and privacy-oriented, with users having complete control over the data they share. Everything is stored securely with Gravatar, so developers can benefit from our API and SDKs without worrying about regulations and handling customer information.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Include a welcome screen with a microsurvey</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>A welcome screen with a quick survey (also known as a microsurvey) is a great way to start your users&#8217; journey. It&#8217;s like greeting new users and asking about their preferences, which makes them feel more valued, helps personalize the experience, and gives you insights to improve your product.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here is how you can make your microsurvey more effective:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Keep it simple, don&#8217;t overwhelm users.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Ask relevant questions so you can focus on improving user experience.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Tell users how their answers help.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>For multiple questions, indicate how many are left.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Example:</strong> <a href=\"https://www.duolingo.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Duolingo</a> asks users which language they want to learn and why, personalizing the learning experience from the start.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"1323\" height=\"730\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/duoling-startup-screen.png\" alt=\"Duolingo startup screen\" class=\"wp-image-2137\" />\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"1269\" height=\"784\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/duolingo-micro-survey-1.png\" alt=\"Duolingo micro survey\" class=\"wp-image-2138\" />\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Pre-gathering user data with Gravatar</strong></h4>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar can enhance your welcome process by auto-filling information with existing Gravatar profile data. Then, it can use the same data to personalize the welcome screen by showing the user&#8217;s profile picture and asking smarter questions instead of generic queries.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Integrating Gravatar can make your onboarding faster and more personal. Here&#8217;s how:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Use <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/\">Gravatar&#8217;s API</a> to fetch user data based on the <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/general/hash/\">user email hashes</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Use the <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/api/avatars/\">Avatar API</a> to display the user&#8217;s Gravatar image on the welcome screen.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Pre-fill any available information in your micro survey.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Tailor your questions based on the data you already have.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Combining a thoughtful welcome screen, a brief microsurvey, and Gravatar integration creates a smooth, personalized start to the user&#8217;s journey with your product.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Segment your users based on goals</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Dividing your users into groups based on what they want to achieve can make your onboarding process more effective. This approach helps you give each user the most relevant information and guidance, which is very likely to increase engagement and improve future adoption rates.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>How to segment users:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Use surveys or welcome messages</strong> to ask about their main objectives, such as &#8220;<em>What do you want to achieve with our product?</em>&#8220;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Group users with similar goals together.</strong> For instance, in a project management tool, you might have groups for personal use, small business, and enterprise users.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Design different onboarding flows for each user group</strong> and show features and tips most relevant to each group&#8217;s goals.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Choose onboarding and UI elements that work best for each group&#8217;s needs.</strong> For example, use tooltips for tech-savvy users and guided tours for beginners.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Real-world example:</strong> <a href=\"https://www.videoask.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">VideoAsk</a></h4>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"2069\" height=\"1040\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/videoask-onboarding.png\" alt=\"Videoask startup screen\" class=\"wp-image-2141\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.videoask.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">VideoAsk</a>, a video survey platform, segments new users by asking them if they want to recruit talent or conduct research to understand their audience better. Then, based on the answer, it shows different features and tutorials. This approach ensures each user sees the most relevant parts of the product first.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Remember to regularly review and update your segments as you learn more about your users and how they use your product.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Utilize essential UX patterns&nbsp;</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>When designing your onboarding experience, you must use the right UX patterns to guide users effectively. These patterns help users quickly understand your product and its value.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For example, <strong>interactive walkthroughs and product tours</strong> are excellent ways to introduce new users to your product&#8217;s key features. They provide a virtual guide, reducing friction and improving understanding. When creating these, keep them concise and focused on core features. Use progress indicators to set expectations, and always allow users to exit or skip if they prefer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>An excellent example of this is the onboarding process of <a href=\"https://asana.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Asana</a>, which allows new users to customize their projects from the get-go.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"425\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/asana-onboarding-example.gif?w=660\" alt=\"Asana onboarding process\" class=\"wp-image-2142\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Tooltips and hotspots are another way of providing contextual guidance as users explore your interface. They draw attention to specific elements and explain functionality without disrupting the user&#8217;s workflow.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"384\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/asana-tooltips.png?w=660\" alt=\"Tooltips with Asana\" class=\"wp-image-2143\" />\n\n\n\n<p>When using tooltips, <strong>keep the copy clear and actionable</strong>. Use them sparingly to avoid overwhelming users, and make sure they&#8217;re easy to dismiss.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Next, we have onboarding checklists and progress bars. These are effective tools for breaking down key setup tasks into manageable steps. They motivate users by gamifying the experience and providing a sense of accomplishment. When creating checklists, prioritize 3-5 key actions that deliver immediate value. <strong>Use clear, action-oriented microcopy, and celebrate when users complete all steps.</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Finally, you need to add a resource center where users can self-serve their education and resolve issues independently, significantly reducing support costs.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"466\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/gravatar-support-center.png?w=660\" alt=\"Gravatar support center\" class=\"wp-image-2144\" />\n\n\n\n<p>When setting up a resource center, organize content by topic and format. Make search functionality prominent and gather feedback to identify content gaps.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Remember, the goal of these UX patterns is to help users understand and derive value from your product as quickly as possible. Each pattern serves a specific purpose, so choose the ones that best fit your product and user needs. Regularly test and refine these elements based on user feedback and behavior to continually improve your onboarding experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Ensure onboarding highlights value</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>When designing your onboarding process, focus on demonstrating how your product solves users&#8217; problems and improves their lives. This approach helps users quickly realize the benefits of your product, increasing the likelihood they&#8217;ll continue using it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>One key strategy is to guide users to their &#8220;Aha!&#8221; moment as quickly as possible. This is the point where they truly grasp the value of your product. To achieve this:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Keep your onboarding process concise and focused on core benefits.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Use demo data or templates to help users visualize the product&#8217;s potential.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Highlight key features that deliver immediate value.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>For example, <a href=\"https://www.canva.com\" rel=\"nofollow\">Canva</a>, a graphic design platform, immediately shows users a gallery of templates they can use. This instantly demonstrates the product&#8217;s value by showing how easily users can create professional designs.</p>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"348\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/canva-homepage-1.png?w=660\" alt=\"Canva homepage\" class=\"wp-image-2145\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>How to facilitate setup and help users achieve quick payoffs</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s face it: <strong>nobody likes a complicated setup process</strong>. The quicker users can get started and see results, the more likely they are to stick around. So, how do we make this happen?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>First up, let&#8217;s talk about making setup a breeze:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Use AI and machine learning to help guide users through setup based on their needs.</strong> For instance, <a href=\"https://www.intercom.com/blog/announcing-resolution-bot/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Intercom&#8217;s Resolution Bot</a> learns from past conversations to answer user questions during setup. Or consider <a href=\"https://www.appcues.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Appcues</a>, which uses AI to suggest the best onboarding flow based on user behavior.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"360\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/democues-app-demo.png?w=660\" alt=\"Democues app demo\" class=\"wp-image-2146\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Show, don&#8217;t just tell, with interactive walkthroughs that guide users step-by-step</strong>. Tools like <a href=\"https://www.walkme.com/\">WalkMe</a> or <a href=\"https://www.pendo.io/\">Pendo</a> can create custom guides that adapt to each user&#8217;s progress.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"323\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/pendo-onboarding-tool.png?w=660\" alt=\"Pendo onboarding tool dashboard with tooltips\" class=\"wp-image-2148\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Do some of the work for users by pre-filing information where possible</strong>. Less typing for users means less frustration.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Want to make the setup more fun? </strong>Try adding some game-like elements. Progress bars or achievement badges can turn a boring setup into a mini-adventure.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay, but how can you create those quick payoffs? The answer is simple: don&#8217;t make users guess why your product is great – show them! During onboarding, focus on showcasing immediate benefits. For example:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>If you have a project management tool, show how it can organize tasks in just a few clicks.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>For a fitness app, demonstrate how quickly users can set up a workout plan.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>The key is to connect your product&#8217;s features directly to the user&#8217;s needs or problems. Say something like, &#8220;<em>See how easy it is to track your team&#8217;s progress?</em>&#8221; or &#8220;<em>Look at that – you&#8217;ve just planned your whole week&#8217;s meals in under 5 minutes!</em>&#8220;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Give users some easy victories right off the bat. These quick wins should be simple tasks that pack a punch in showing your product&#8217;s value. For instance, in a photo editing app, you can let users apply a one-click filter that dramatically improves their photo.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Finally, use what you know about your users to point them toward features they&#8217;ll love. This could be based on info they provided during sign-up or actions they&#8217;ve taken in the app. For example, if a user said they&#8217;re interested in running, a fitness app could highlight its running tracking features first.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>These personalized touches make users feel understood and help them get more out of your product faster. For more information, check out our guide on user experience personalization.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Drive users toward key actions</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Guiding users to perform key actions is crucial for ensuring they get the most value from your product quickly. These actions are the core activities that demonstrate your product&#8217;s usefulness and encourage continued engagement.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To effectively drive users toward key actions:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Identify your product&#8217;s most important features or tasks.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Design clear, action-oriented onboarding flows.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Use prominent Calls-To-Action (CTAs) to guide users.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Consider using gamification elements like progress bars or achievements to motivate users. For example, LinkedIn encourages profile completion by showing a progress meter and suggesting the next steps.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Personalization can make your guidance more effective. Use data from the sign-up process or initial interactions to tailor the key actions you suggest to each user.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>While guiding users is important, you also have to provide options for more exploratory or experienced users. Include easily accessible &#8220;<em>skip</em>&#8221; or &#8220;<em>learn more</em>&#8221; options in your onboarding flow.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Remember to measure the completion rate of these key actions. This data can help you refine your onboarding process and identify any stumbling blocks users might be encountering.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>By focusing on driving users toward key actions, you help them experience your product&#8217;s value quickly, increasing the likelihood of long-term engagement and success.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>How to measure and optimize user onboarding</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>To ensure your onboarding process is effective, you need to measure its performance and continuously optimize it. This involves tracking specific metrics and collecting user feedback. Let&#8217;s explore the key metrics to track and how to collect valuable data.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Key metrics to track</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Time to Value (TTV):</strong> This measures how quickly users experience the core value of your product. A shorter TTV often leads to better user retention. To measure TTV, track the time from sign-up to when users complete key actions that represent value realization.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Engagement rate:</strong> This metric shows the percentage of users actively using your product after onboarding. A high engagement rate indicates a successful onboarding strategy. Analyze user activity logs to determine the proportion of active users over time.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Customer churn:</strong> Churn rate measures how many users stop using your product after onboarding. A high churn rate may indicate problems with your onboarding process. Calculate the percentage of users who discontinue use within a defined period post-onboarding.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Feature adoption rate:</strong> This tracks how many users engage with key features of your product. It helps you understand which features are being utilized and which may need better onboarding support. Monitor user interactions with specific features to calculate the adoption rate.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>User satisfaction:</strong> This qualitative metric provides insights into users&#8217; experiences and areas for improvement. Use surveys, Net Promoter Score (NPS), and Customer Satisfaction (CSAT) scores post-onboarding to gauge user satisfaction.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>How to collect data</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>To gather the necessary data for these metrics, consider the following methods:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Analytics tools: </strong>Use platforms like <a href=\"https://marketingplatform.google.com/about/analytics/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Google Analytics</a>, <a href=\"https://mixpanel.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Mixpanel</a>, or <a href=\"https://amplitude.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Amplitude</a> to track user behavior. Set up event tracking to monitor key actions during onboarding. Analyze funnel reports to understand where users are dropping off and which steps are most effective.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"291\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/mixpanel-homepage.png?w=660\" alt=\"Mixpanel homepage and example analytics board\" class=\"wp-image-2149\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Customer feedback:</strong> Conduct surveys using tools like <a href=\"https://www.surveymonkey.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">SurveyMonkey</a> or <a href=\"https://www.typeform.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Typeform</a> to gather user opinions on the onboarding experience. Implement NPS and CSAT surveys to measure overall satisfaction. Use in-app feedback tools to collect real-time insights from users.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"322\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/survey-monkey-homepage.png?w=660\" alt=\"Survey Monkey homepage\" class=\"wp-image-2150\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>User interviews:</strong> Conduct one-on-one interviews with a diverse sample of users. These provide deeper insights into the onboarding experience and can uncover issues that might not be apparent from quantitative data alone.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Heatmaps and session recordings: </strong>Tools like <a href=\"https://www.hotjar.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Hotjar</a> or <a href=\"https://www.crazyegg.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Crazy Egg</a> can help you visualize how users interact with your onboarding process. Analyze these to identify areas where users struggle or spend more time than expected.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"326\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/hotjar-homepage.png?w=660\" alt=\"Hotjar homepage\" class=\"wp-image-2151\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Remember, the goal of collecting this data is to continually improve your onboarding process. Regularly review your metrics and user feedback to identify areas for optimization. Look for patterns in user behavior and feedback that suggest where improvements can be made.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For example, if you notice a high drop-off rate at a particular step in your onboarding process, investigate why users might be struggling at that point. Are the instructions unclear? Is the step too complex? Use this insight to refine and simplify that part of the process.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Integrate Gravatar to improve your onboarding experience</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>So, we&#8217;ve covered a lot about making your onboarding process better. Remember, it&#8217;s all about keeping things simple, personal, and valuable for your users.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, here&#8217;s where Gravatar comes in handy. By using Gravatar in your onboarding:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>You make sign-up quicker – no need for users to fill out everything from scratch.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Users get to keep their familiar profile across different sites.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>You can personalize things right from the start using their Gravatar info.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s a win-win: <strong>users save time, and you get useful info to make their experience even better</strong>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Want to give it a shot? <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/\">Head over to our developer documents</a> and see how you can add Gravatar to your onboarding. It&#8217;s a simple way to make a big difference in how users start with your product.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 06 Sep 2024 21:43:58 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:19;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:85:\"WPTavern: WordPress.org Introduces New Security Measures for Plugin and Theme Authors\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=161159\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:96:\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-org-introduces-new-security-measures-for-plugin-and-theme-authors\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3159:\"<p>Starting October 1st, 2024, WordPress.org will roll out <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2024/09/04/upcoming-security-changes-for-plugin-and-theme-authors-on-wordpress-org/\">new security measures</a> aimed at enhancing the safety of accounts with commit access to plugins and themes. This was announced by the Automattic-sponsored developer Dion Hulse.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Mandatory Two-Factor Authentication</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Beginning next month, WordPress.org will make two-factor authentication (2FA) mandatory for all plugin and theme authors. Authors can configure 2FA by <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/me/profile/security.\">visiting their WordPress.org profiles</a>, and the platform has already started prompting them to do so.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Dion Hulse emphasized the importance of securely storing backup codes, as losing access to both 2FA methods and backup codes could complicate account recovery.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">SVN Passwords for Commit Access</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress.org will also introduce SVN passwords for committing changes to plugins and themes. This feature separates commit access from the main WordPress.org account credentials, offering an extra layer of security. Authors can generate SVN passwords through their profiles, ensuring that their main account passwords are protected. Those using deployment scripts, like GitHub Actions, will need to update their stored passwords with these new SVN credentials.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For those wondering why the Plugin Review Team is not using 2FA with SVN, Dion explained, “Due to technical limitations, 2FA cannot be applied to our existing code repositories, that’s why we’ve chosen to secure WordPress.org code through a combination of account-level two-factor authentication, high-entropy SVN passwords, and other deploy-time security features (such as &nbsp;<a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-org/release-confirmation-emails/\">Release Confirmations</a>).”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For more information, authors can refer to the guides on <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/meta/handbook/tutorials-guides/configuring-two-factor-authentication/\">Configuring Two-Factor Authentication</a> and <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/meta/handbook/tutorials-guides/svn-access/\">Subversion Access</a> and Chris Christoff’s post on <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2024/06/26/keeping-your-plugin-committer-accounts-secure/\">Keeping Your Plugin Committer Accounts Secure</a></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Community Reaction&nbsp;</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>The community has reacted positively to these changes, with some expressing that these updates were long overdue. “At least we were earlier than someone stepping on Mars, &#8221; joked developer Toma Todua.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Recently, the WordPress Plugin Team has ramped up efforts to enhance platform security. In June, they temporarily halted plugin releases and forced all plugin authors to <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2024/06/29/password-reset-required-for-plugin-authors/\">reset their passwords</a> after five WordPress.org user accounts were compromised.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 06 Sep 2024 20:12:50 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:20;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:51:\"WPTavern: Key Insights From WooCommerce Survey 2024\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=161147\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:62:\"https://wptavern.com/key-insights-from-woocommerce-survey-2024\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3340:\"<p>WooCommerce has unveiled the results of its <a href=\"https://woocommerce.com/black-friday-trends/\">2024 summer survey</a>, shedding light on how store owners, developers, and partners gear up for Black Friday Cyber Monday (BFCM) and the holiday shopping rush.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here are the key takeaways from the survey:</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>BFCM Sales Account for a Major Share of Annual Revenue</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>BFCM plays a crucial role for online merchants, contributing to approximately 30%-50% of their yearly sales. The survey revealed that 66% of stores reported increased sales during the holiday season, highlighting its significance for businesses. In fact, for some stores, up to 50% of their annual revenue comes from this period alone.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>46% of stores see up to 30% of their yearly sales during this time.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>26% generate over 30% of their annual sales.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>8% surpass 50% of annual sales during BFCM.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Stores &amp; Early Planning</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Larger stores with annual revenues of $250K+ are 12% more likely to begin preparations early. In total, <a href=\"https://woocommerce.com/black-friday-trends/\">81% of stores actively plan</a> for BFCM promotions.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>26% of stores begin planning 1-4 weeks before BFCM.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>27% start preparations 1-3 months ahead.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>13% dedicate 3-6 months to preparation.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>4% start more than 6 months in advance.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Preparation Tactics &amp; Strategies</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>26% of stores planned to increase inventory as their primary preparation strategy. This was followed by marketing, promotions, and website optimization.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>When it comes to marketing channels:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>29% of stores find email the most effective, followed by organic social media (25%).</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Other popular channels include paid social (13%), search ads (8%), and content marketing (6%).</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>For the 2024 holiday season, 34% of stores are adjusting their strategies, focusing on: </p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Introducing new products (26%)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Improving marketing efforts (24%)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Enhancing website performance (16%)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Starting sales early (10%)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Offering special discounts (9%)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Making changes to customer engagement, social media, and inventory management completes the list.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Multi-Channel Sales </h2>\n\n\n\n<p>The survey also noted that 67% of stores sell through multiple channels, including physical locations and online marketplaces. Specifically, 11% of stores sell on Amazon, 8% sell on Etsy and 6% sell on eBay.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Customer Engagement &amp; Analytics</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>A significant 91% of stores use analytics tools like Google Analytics, WooCommerce Analytics Dashboard, and Meteorik to evaluate campaign performance. Despite the busy season, 89% of stores do not implement a special refund or return policy&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Woo&#8217;s Chief Marketing Officer, Tamara Niesen, has <a href=\"https://woocommerce.com/posts/black-friday-stats-and-trends/\">shared more insights</a> on the survey results on the WooCommerce blog.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 06 Sep 2024 17:03:30 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:21;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:81:\"WPTavern: #135 – Jonathan Bossenger on Enhancing WordPress Learning Experiences\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=160816\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:95:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/135-jonathan-bossenger-on-enhancing-wordpress-learning-experiences\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:65453:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jukebox is a podcast, which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, enhancing WordPress learning experiences.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast, player of choice. Or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today, we have Jonathan Bossenger. Jonathan based in Cape town, South Africa, has been an integral part of the WordPress community for nearly a decade. Transitioning from software development to web, and then WordPress development, he found his passion in education.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Since attending his first word camp in 2015, he has focused on creating educational content for WordPress developers. Now employed at Automattic as a developer educator, he contributes to the Learn platform, helping to train and guide new developers in the WordPress ecosystem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He&#8217;s on the podcast today to explain some of the ways that you can learn WordPress with up to date, freely available content.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We discuss the goal of making WordPress learning accessible globally, especially for those who can&#8217;t afford expensive courses.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The discussion gets into the transformative potential of the Learn WordPress platform, especially in the era of Playground, which will enable interactive coding practice without the need for external tools. Jonathan sees this as a game changer for web agencies, providing a streamlined training resource for new developers and conserving valuable time and resources.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We cover Jonathan&#8217;s journey from software developer to developer educator, supported by his former employer, Castos. He shares the challenges of keeping educational content current amidst WordPress&#8217;s rapid evolution, and the importance of staying updated with WordPress core developments.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The conversation also touches on the structured learning pathways, designed to guide learners from beginner to advanced levels. Segmented into user designer and developer categories.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The professionalism of WordPress projects like Learn, and the essential role of contributors in translating and internationalising content to reach a broader audience ,comes under the microscope as well. And Jonathan reflects upon the dynamic nature of open source communities, stressing the need for decisive leadership in software development decisions from time to time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Towards the end, we talk about the many ways that you can assist the Learn project, and there are many more ways than you might imagine.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re curious about how people learn about WordPress, and how you can be a part of that project, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Jonathan Bossenger.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast today, once more by Jonathan Bossenger. Hey, Jonathan.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:59] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> Hello, I&#8217;m back.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We&#8217;re going to be talking about a really important subject, and a subject which I think is getting more importance. We can get into the politics or what have you of that in a moment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Before we begin the conversation all about Learn, and what&#8217;s going on over there, Jonathan, for those people who don&#8217;t know who you are, do you want to just give us your brief potted history? Maybe your current job, and your history with WordPress and so on?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:24] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> Sure. So for those who don&#8217;t know, my name is Jonathan Bossenger. I live in Cape Town in South Africa, which is the country right at the tip of Africa. I have been involved in the WordPress community now for about nine years. I went to my first WordCamp in Cape Town in 2015, and I am a web developer, originally a software developer, then a web developer, then a WordPress developer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I&#8217;m now transitioned to this wonderful new thing that I call, or at least people call developer educator. I&#8217;m currently employed at Automattic, I&#8217;m sponsored to work full-time with the WordPress training team, and my job is basically creating educational content for WordPress developers. So everything that is on Learn, that has to do with WordPress development, I have got some hand in somewhere there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:05] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Was this a pivot that you kind of had as part of your north star five or six years ago, or is this very much an evolution that kind of happened to you without it meaning to be the case?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:16] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> I did pivot from software development to developer education kind of organically, but also with a little bit of support. You&#8217;ll appreciate the story, Nathan. So as you will know, I was working at Castos for a number of years. I was the initial developer that Craig hired when we first kicked Castos off. I became lead developer as the company grew.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And in conversations that I had with Craig, as my CEO, as the company grew, and as we run about the time the TinySeed thing happened and Craig had some money that he could spend to grow the team and all those things. He sat me down and he said to me, right, what does the future look like for you? As the company grows, we&#8217;ve got potential to get big, what does the future look like?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And he said the word engineering manager, and the term CTO came up, and I realised in those conversations that that was not what I wanted to be doing. As much as I enjoyed developing software, I&#8217;m not great at leading people. I have a very short temper, I struggle to lead properly, and part of it is also just I&#8217;ve never had good experience under other good leaders, and that was part of my journey.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But what I really do enjoy doing, and you&#8217;ll appreciate this, I enjoy educating folks about content, about things, about GPL, about whatever. And I really enjoy teaching other developers, mentoring them, guiding them through a journey. And at the time I shared this information with Craig, he said to me, well, funnily enough there&#8217;s this role at Delicious Brains. I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll know Delicious Brains, WP Migrate, and all those plugins. And they were looking for specifically a developer educator.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I sat on that job posting for about a year and a half before I eventually applied. But that was the sort of transition of that process, going from full-time software developer to developer educator. And that process is what landed me up where I am today because I enjoy teaching WordPress, I enjoy teaching WordPress development. I discovered the training team through a series of events. And so when the role, when the position became available to do this full time, I grabbed it with both hands, and that&#8217;s where I am now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:04] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So you are an Automattician, you work for Automattic now, yeah. And you are a hundred percent on creating educational materials, that is all that you are involved in?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:13] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> That is what my role is within the company, but I also do jump in here and there all over the place because I am a full-time volunteer, if you will, I&#8217;m a lifelong volunteer. So I do try and get involved with Core wherever I can. I try and help with the docs wherever I can because the docs, especially the developer docs, they inform a lot of my content that we create for Learn.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So if I find issues in the docs, I&#8217;ll try and update those. After about a year and a half of pestering folks, eventually they gave me access to the docs, and I can just make whatever changes I need to. And I do treat that with a lot of respect, and I only make changes that I think are really obvious. Or I check with folks first and make sure that those changes make sense.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But my employment at Automattic is specifically to work with the training team, to help drive the Learn WordPress platform forward, primarily creating content, helping with the platform, helping with the code base. Bringing in other collaborators, working with other collaborators, supporting them, and just helping to make Learn WordPress the best place to learn about WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:07] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, nice. I guess if you have the calling to be an educator, and some people do and some people don&#8217;t, I know plenty of people who really enjoy the work that they do as educators, be it of children, online, or what have you. If you have that calling, it is profoundly meaningful, isn&#8217;t it? If you have that in you, that you wish to educate other people, I think there&#8217;s a deep sense of satisfaction and meaning that comes from that, and significance that comes from that. So I hope it&#8217;s fulfilling you on that level.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But also, interesting in the bit that you just said, you&#8217;re dipping in and out. Because I guess, if you are going to be teaching people about WordPress, and given what Learn covers, and we&#8217;ll get into all of that, you can&#8217;t become de-skilled, can you? It&#8217;s not like you could sit making courses five years from now, without being absolutely knee deep in the weeds of the project as a whole, because won&#8217;t know what&#8217;s going on. You won&#8217;t know what to make courses about. You won&#8217;t understand the new UI that&#8217;s coming down the pike, and all of that kind of thing. So I guess the two things go hand in hand, you have to keep up to date.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:05] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> Absolutely. I have learned more about WordPress Core in the last two years that I&#8217;ve been teaching it, than I ever have in the nine years before that I was using it and building on top of it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s that very common saying about, to really understand a topic, teach it. Because you can only teach someone something if you really understand. And so I am challenged even with some of the older stuff. I was doing a series of lessons recently about how to extend user capabilities, and I went down a massive rabbit hole about how this all actually works. I&#8217;ve used it in the past as a plugin developer when I was working at Castos, and for projects and whatever. I&#8217;ve assigned capabilities, I&#8217;ve created custom capabilities, but I&#8217;ve never understood how they really just work. I&#8217;ve just gone, yeah, they work, and I&#8217;ve moved on with my life.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now I have to understand deeply how they work, before I can teach somebody. So this is the interesting thing about WordPress is there is so much to learn. There is so much historical information, there is so much in Core that will continue forever, that there is to learn. And then as you say, there&#8217;s so much new stuff coming in.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The new stuff is a whole topic on its own, and we&#8217;ll definitely chat about that in a second. But yeah, there&#8217;s just so much to learn and to then teach that I feel like, I&#8217;ve always said I&#8217;ve never been the best developer, there are folks out there who are way better developers than I am, there are architects and whatever else. But I&#8217;ve always had this desire to share knowledge and teach others.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so now I get the best of both worlds. I get to dive into Core, I get to dig into the code, I get to understand how it works. I get to find bugs and report them if something&#8217;s wonky while I&#8217;m preparing a lesson. And then I get to share that with others, and help them figure out how this stuff all works, I do all the fumbling, and then I present the lesson, and off they go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> With the kind of teaching that you do, so I have several friends in the real world who live close to me who teach children in schools. And the feedback there is immediate, you teach the content, and then you&#8217;re either staring a bunch of happy faces, or there&#8217;s confusion on the face, and so you realise, okay, I pitched that incorrectly. The whole online content thing, I don&#8217;t understand how the feedback works there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But also, we spoke about it being a meaningful thing, and I think probably if you&#8217;re a classroom teacher, the meaning is the faces. You know, you see the impression that you are having on the children. You can see that, okay, that child who didn&#8217;t get that yesterday now gets it, and there&#8217;s that it immediate feedback loop, which must be beautiful. But what does that look like for online content? How do you even get feedback about, okay, that worked, or that was good, or no, redo that? How does that happen?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:26] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> There&#8217;s a couple of ways that does happen for me at least. The one way is that we have got feedback processes in our content on Learn WordPress. So there is a feedback form linked at the bottom of most lessons. The end of every course we&#8217;re implementing a feedback survey. But we also do things that allow more direct feedback.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So something that we kicked off last year for the first time, we ran one last year, we are planning on running two this year, we just finished the first one, was this concept of a in-person course cohort. So we take a series of content, and then we invite learners to come along on a journey.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s asynchronous communication, but then we, once a week we have a synchronous call where everybody who&#8217;s available gets together, and we chat through the content. And in those spaces I get to interact with the students directly. I get to see the successes. I get to see the difficulties and try and help them with the difficulties.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I also get to see the students, or the learners, helping each other out. And so in all of those spaces I get that sort of reinforce, okay, wow, this is working, this isn&#8217;t working, seeing this successful, that kind of thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But then also, interestingly, with the way we create content, we have a review process. So when a new lesson is ready to be published, we will upload it to the GitHub issue, we manage everything in GitHub. We&#8217;ll upload it to the GitHub issue, and then we will ask members of the training team to review the content. And so they&#8217;re basically getting like a preview of the content before it gets published live.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And a lot of the folks who do the reviews are subject matter experts in that area. So if it&#8217;s a thing about developing a plugin, or developing a block, or whatever. It&#8217;ll be block developers, and plugin developers, and theme developers who review the content. And they will give you direct feedback as well. And they will say, oh, this works, ooh, I learned this today. And so you&#8217;ll get those little nuggets here and there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I have a lot of great feedback. I&#8217;d love to get more, and we&#8217;re working on processes to get more, and more, and more feedback. Because the more interactions we can have with learners, the more we can see what works and what doesn&#8217;t. And that&#8217;s definitely a big part of the whole redesign, and the relaunch that we&#8217;ve been working on, is creating spaces for that feedback.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:18] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Nice. Let&#8217;s get into the content itself. So it occurs to me that we&#8217;ve got this far into the episode and we haven&#8217;t actually mentioned the URL, which is a bit remiss. So head to learn.wordpress.org, and from there you can go in all sorts of directions, and you&#8217;ll be able to see that. The UI may change, it has undergone some changes recently as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But in an ideal world, we&#8217;d go to that website, and we would have any question about WordPress, and we would find the answer. That would be a utopia, some sort of crazy universe that we don&#8217;t live in, where everything that we could possibly want, there&#8217;s a piece of content which will address that question.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Of course, that&#8217;s not the reality. You have to pick and choose your subjects. At this moment in history, we&#8217;re in July 2024, how are those decisions made? How do you make the decision, okay, this is the next tranche of content that we&#8217;re going to make? Ignore what you&#8217;ve already got. How are you making decisions about what comes next?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:12] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> So that is very much driven by the learners themselves. And you mentioned about ignore the content you&#8217;ve got, but the content that we&#8217;ve got is actually very important to think about because it informed where we are currently. So at the end of, I think it was the end of 2021, or 2022, I can&#8217;t remember exactly what year, but the training team, so the WordPress training team, these are the folks that are similar to the Core team, or the Meta team, we all know those teams in Slack, and all the different teams on the Make Blogs. The training team is the team that focuses on everything on Learn WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They did a individual learner feedback survey. They tried to reach all folks who have accessed Learn content since its inception in 2020. And they said, give us your feedback. What is working, what is not working? And the biggest piece of feedback we got out of that learner survey was more structured learning pathways.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>At that stage, the content was very scattershot. We were creating the content that we thought was good, so when I joined Automattic as a full-time sponsored contributor, and I looked at the developer focused content there, I went, well, there&#8217;s nothing about WordPress hooks. That&#8217;s probably one of the first things that you need to learn about if you&#8217;re going to develop with WordPress. So I created a series of lessons on WordPress hooks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then I went, well, what is the next thing I want to create? There was no structure, there was no plan. And so learning pathways became the thing that folks wanted the most. So that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re focusing on right now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Could you just clear up what pathways means? Because I suspect it might be a word which isn&#8217;t entirely familiar to everybody.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:37] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> A hundred percent. And I didn&#8217;t know what a learning pathway was before I got started, to be honest. But in our scope, in our space, when we talk about a learning pathway, we mean a specifically structured series of modules and lessons that take you from point 1 to point 5, for example.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We defined a series of learning pathways, the first are all user focused. So we have a beginner user learning pathway, and it&#8217;s basically the introduction to WordPress. You&#8217;ve never used WordPress before. What are pages? What are posts? How do I set the homepage instead of the blog home? All those kind of beginner situations. So you can go from knowing nothing about WordPress, to having a pretty good idea about how WordPress works, and you can put your site together.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Then we have the next level which is, now you understand how WordPress works, now how do we go deeper? Maybe, how do themes work? How do themes get installed, and how do they work within your WordPress sites, or plugins, or those kind of things? How you can build forms. What options you have. What are plugins, and where do I find them? And those kind of questions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then for the developer side we had a similar thing, we said, right, let&#8217;s imagine somebody who&#8217;s now gone through all the user learning pathways, and they can use WordPress successfully, but now they want to go a step further. They want to start customising WordPress beyond what the no code tools allow. How do they start?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, they first need to start and understand what HTML, CSS, PHP and MySQL are, and JavaScript, and we need to give them an introduction to that. So we kind of, we define these learning pathways as a structured way of progressing from point A to point Z, say, within a specific realm. Be it user, designer. And we specifically isolated user, designer and developer, because those were kind of our, what we saw as our three big user stories, if you will.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So the pathways are kind of structured content. You begin at, if you like, lesson one, and you go through 3, 4, 5, 6, all the way up to 20 or what have you. And so, when you come out of that, at the end, you&#8217;ve acquired a body of learning. It feels like an LMS, a learning management system is kind of how it&#8217;s all held together.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you log into the UI, you can see that you&#8217;ve completed this lesson, you&#8217;re up to lesson five, okay, clearly lesson six comes next. And if you complete one pathway, is there some intention that one pathway will then lead to another pathway, if you like? So if you complete the beginner bit, then a logical step would be to go to this next pathway, so that everything is sort of like a big spider web.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:52] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> Exactly that. So, for example, if we think about it, let&#8217;s go to brand new user, they come in, they start with the beginner user pathway. They finish that. Then from there, do they want to go further into the user side of things, and there&#8217;s a link to the next level pathway, and they can go through that. Or do they want to get into development? And then that links them to the beginner developer learning pathway. So depending on what type of scenario they have, they can then choose to go from there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then additionally, if I just focus on, let&#8217;s say the beginner developer learning pathway. So in the beginner developer learning pathway we introduce the concepts of the web languages, and web servers, and all that kind of thing. And then we talk about an introduction to plugins. And at the end of the plugins module, well, what if they want to go further into plugin development? Then there will be a plugin developer learning pathway. And that&#8217;s all focusing on plugin developments, and all the things you would need to learn for plugin development.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s say they don&#8217;t want to do that, they continue along beginner developer. The next one, actually it&#8217;s the other way around, it&#8217;s theme first, then plugin. So they do theme, then plugin. At the end of the theme module, what if they want to go deeper into themes? Then there&#8217;s a link to the theme developer learning pathway. So they could either carry on with beginner, and just wrap that up, and get a broad understanding of sort of WordPress development, or they could choose to dive in deeper. And once they finished, for example, theme developer, they could come back, and then go through plugin developer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We do envision, as you say, the sort of spider web. At the moment, everything is very one lane. So it&#8217;s sort of beginner user, intermediate user, advanced user. The same for developer, the same for designer. But once all this content is created, then we can start thinking about how, sort of getting an idea of where people go and what they want to learn, and trying to tie these things in together so that, whichever path they take, there&#8217;s content for them to get to an eventual goal.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You mentioned earlier that there were real world conversations that you had. So i&#8217;ll just use the word Zoom for want of a better word. So you get on a Zoom call once a month. Do they fit into these learning pathways? So, for example, if I was to join the, oh I don&#8217;t know, the beginner WordPress one. I&#8217;m absolutely new to WordPress, I just want learn how to install it, and what a post is, and what a page is, and all of that kind of stuff. Is there any kind of Zoom call for that, or are we on our own? Does every pathway have its sort of dedicated time, or is it just all the pathways on the Zoom call at the same moment? How does that all work?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:54] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> So as I mentioned, the course cohorts, the Zoom calls, they&#8217;re something that&#8217;s very new that we&#8217;ve kind of started experimenting with. So the first one we ran, I basically, I created a separate course for it, because we were doing it over a period of six weeks, so one call per week. So we essentially had to have enough content for somebody to kind of work on on a week by week basis.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We also had to think about, well, how much time do folks actually have after their day jobs and whatever else to work on this content? So we tried to make sure that what they were working on could be done within about two to three hours. So they could do it on a Saturday morning if they&#8217;re working a day job, or an evening or whatever the case is. And so we created a separate course for that to work through. Work out the kinks, figure out how it&#8217;s all going to work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The ultimate goal is to actually, with the next time we do a course cohort, is to actually take the folks through a set of modules in a specific learning pathway. So what I&#8217;m envisioning for, and because I&#8217;m focused on developers, what I&#8217;m envisioning for my next course cohort is to take, and I know you shared the beginner developer learning pathway in a previous podcast. But to take folks through maybe the first six, possibly six modules, because I think there&#8217;s 12 in total.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The first six modules of the beginner developer learning pathway, which will cover an introduction to WordPress, and web servers, and how it works. The five programming languages. An introduction to plugins, themes, and blocks. So that&#8217;ll give them a good base, a good foundation to start from.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then from there, if they choose to continue along that pathway on their own, they&#8217;re more than welcome to. But then what I would like to be able to do is, the next time we run a course cohort, I invite those folks back for part two. And we then take them on the next six, and we take them through that process. So that&#8217;s kind of what I&#8217;m envisioning.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And it&#8217;s going to kind of be interesting to manage because eventually I&#8217;m going to be in a situation where I&#8217;m running one cohort for the first six and one cohort for the second six, because the previous first six are coming back for the second six, and I&#8217;m going to be cycling around like that. So I&#8217;m going to need folks to help me facilitate those, I can&#8217;t just do it all myself. And that&#8217;s part of what we do as well. But that&#8217;s kind of the idea.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s a nice endeavor, isn&#8217;t it? So almost recycling the knowledge through the people that been through the program. So the beginners of yesteryear are the ones who are training the beginnings of next year, if you know what I mean. Yeah, that&#8217;s really nice. Yeah, this lovely sort of feedback loop. That&#8217;s wonderful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:01] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> And we actually had someone, sorry to interrupt you, we actually someone from the last cohort who actually has stepped up and said he would like to help facilitate the next one. So I&#8217;m hoping to invite him along for the next one that we kick off, so that he can maybe facilitate that and I can be more in a support role, so that he can then continue along. So that&#8217;s hopefully where this goes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:20] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> We have a lot of commercial courses online. You don&#8217;t have to Google too much to discover that there&#8217;s dozens probably, maybe hundreds, I don&#8217;t know, of courses online where this is the person&#8217;s job, if you like. They sell the course, you pay for access for a period of time, you use an LMS and what have you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so in that way you have this intuition, I guess that, okay, I&#8217;ve paid for it, hopefully it&#8217;s going to be updated and rah, rah, rah. But this, we should have pointed out probably before, there&#8217;s no cost to any of this to the end user. How does that work? Obviously there&#8217;s a lot of volunteer work, you are an Automattician so you are seconded to do this work. How does it all, I mean, it can&#8217;t be free, it can be free at the point of use, but it can&#8217;t be free to create. How does it afford to exist? How can that be?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:03] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> I mean it&#8217;s as simple as Five for the Future. And I&#8217;ve publicly said this. When I joined Automattic I went and checked, and 5% of Automattic staff are working on WordPress Core. So Automattic puts its money where its mouth is. And the great thing about that is that, by doing that we make the learning content as free and open source as the software itself.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I want to just say this upfront, I have a great love and respect for anybody creating educational content for any kind of product, service, whatever, on their own. It is not something I could do. I am very fortunate that I get paid a regular salary to do this. And a few people have said to me, you could probably earn so much more if you did this on your own. And they&#8217;re probably right, but it&#8217;s just not within my brain space to be able to do that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I have great respect for folks who can do this on their own and make a living out of it. And I love the fact that all these options exist because what I teach, and what someone like Fränk Klein, or Nyasha Green, they&#8217;re all folks who have got courses online that are either free or paid. What they teach and what I teach are all from our subjective viewpoint. So it&#8217;s based on our experiences, based on our knowledge.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I encourage folks to try out these different courses if they can afford to do them, because you&#8217;re going to get pieces of information that you wouldn&#8217;t get from someone like myself, because of different levels of experience, different backgrounds, different interests, whatever. But what I want to be able to do is I want to be able to make it possible so that folks who can&#8217;t afford to learn these things, students, folks in third world countries, can go online and get something. That&#8217;s my goal.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If they come to Learn WordPress, and they learn the basics, and then they go off and learn and pay for another course because they get hired a job, and that job pays for them to learn somewhere else, I am happy. Because ultimately that is the goal of democratising something. You know, we democratise publishing by building this open source software, and making it possible for companies to earn money off it. So I want to democratise WordPress learning and make it possible for folks to learn what they need to do to get a job, and then be able to pay for other courses and increase their learning that way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:06] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think lucky is the wrong word, but when I was going through on another podcast that I do, when I was just explaining that some of these courses were coming around, you know, the introduction to WordPress course, and the developer course and what have you that have dropped in the last few months. I just felt an enormous sense of, oh I don&#8217;t know, privilege or luck that that&#8217;s all there. That anybody on the planet who has the capacity to connect to the internet, does have the capacity to learn WordPress completely for free.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And as you said, you may go off in different directions, and Learn is bound to the WordPress project itself, you know, it&#8217;s not going to explore this page builder, or that page builder because that&#8217;s out of the bounds. But what a privilege to just roll into web development as a project, you know, maybe it&#8217;s a hobby at the moment, and find a bunch of really credible resources online, and then think to yourself, okay, where&#8217;s the checkout? There&#8217;s no checkout. It&#8217;s just completely for free. And that is, that&#8217;s miraculous, frankly. And it could not have been that way, but it is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:07] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> It is, absolutely. And the way I always look at this is, you talk about other page builders, and let&#8217;s talk about other plugins, and other themes, and whatever the case may be. We talk about perfect utopias. What I would love to see is a world where agency X, you know, Human Made, all these web agencies, I&#8217;m just mentioning names, XWP, 10up, all of those. They&#8217;ve got new developers coming in, junior developers coming in, and instead of them having to build, hire somebody, or pay somebody to make content for internal training, they can just link them off to Learn WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then those folks can go through the training and then be productive members of that team. And then that person who&#8217;s creating the content can do something else for the company, can create other content that the company needs, as opposed to having to recreate this educational content all the time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;ve had conversations with hosting companies. You know, hosting companies, they have video editors who have to both create educational videos for customers, but also promotional videos and all that to grow the company. Wouldn&#8217;t it be great if they could just focus on their promotional videos and grow the company, and send customers links to Learn WordPress? They don&#8217;t even have to send them links to Learn WordPress, it&#8217;s as open source as the software. So everything we release is creative commons essentially, because that&#8217;s the text video version of open source software.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So if they want to include it in their customer support portals, all of our videos are on YouTube, so folks could link to it from YouTube if they want to. Imagine how much opportunity it creates for them to use those folks for other things, for growing the business, for customer interactions, or whatever the case may be. As opposed to having to recreate the wheel every time, because every hosting company needs to create support videos. Every hosting company needs to create a, this is pages, this is posts, blah, blah, blah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s a really nice idea. I&#8217;m going to go off piste for just a moment, and I don&#8217;t want to go down this alley particularly, but also, if you go to some of the courses, I&#8217;m going to coin a phrase, they are Playgroundable. You can click a button, the button at the moment says, practice with WordPress Playground. And if you&#8217;re not familiar with that button, just go and click it and hold your breath for about two seconds.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You&#8217;ll basically get a functioning website inside the browser with the course content there, all of the bits and pieces that are mentioned. So that impediment, even the impediment of, okay, go download something like Local. Install WordPress. Now do this, do that. Make sure these settings are all configured. Even that headache is gone, and that is just utterly remarkable. I don&#8217;t know if you want to just quickly get into that, but how amazing is that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:23] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> Absolutely. Matt said this at his summer update, pay attention to Playground. So I just want to mention, you talk about the practice with WordPress Playground button. That button doesn&#8217;t yet load up the Playground instance with all the course content. But there&#8217;s currently a conversation that I&#8217;m actively involved in, and have been for the last few weeks, where we&#8217;re going to make that possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I am able to load up the code example, for example, of the lesson that I&#8217;m working on in a Playground block inside the lesson. And folks can physically code inside the window and see the changes on the preview. And then there&#8217;s a button where you can open that in a new tab and it goes full screen in your laptop, or your computer, or whatever. And you can just live code it there, see the changes, see what breaks, see the debug output. And then there&#8217;s a button to download that code to your machine so that you can upload it to GitHub or wherever you want to.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Playground is going to change the way we teach WordPress to folks, and I can&#8217;t wait for it to be, it&#8217;s like 99% there. There&#8217;s a few tweaks we&#8217;re busy making to get it there. There&#8217;s also quite a bit of work we&#8217;ve been working on with accessibility of Playground. You probably know Alex Stein, he&#8217;s been helping us test that, so massive thanks to him, so that there&#8217;s no accessibility issues. So yes, when the relaunch happens at the end of this month, beginning of this month, I&#8217;m hoping that that&#8217;s all going to be in place. And then as you&#8217;re sitting there reading through the lesson or watching the video, and you want to try this out, as you say, you click a button, it opens a tab, and you just code, and you just see it do its thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:41] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s properly profound. I remember when I first saw Playground, I actually didn&#8217;t make the mental leap to what it could do. To be honest, I&#8217;m not sure many people did. Adam Zielinski did. The rest of us were sort of caught short a little bit, but I thought, oh, that&#8217;s novel, that&#8217;s interesting. But it feels to me as if the education piece, not just tied to WordPress, but in schools, in universities, in colleges, that seems to be one of the most useful things. You know, that ability to, okay, we want to teach you something, okay, you want all the resources, click that button, there they are, right there. And it&#8217;ll be fascinating to see how that goes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:14] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> Very quickly, before we wrap this up, I just want to share a story. I remember at a previous WordCamp in Cape Town we did a kids camp. And all we wanted to do was teach kids what WordPress is and how you use it. We spent the whole morning just getting them to install a local development environment and getting a WordPress install set up. So that&#8217;s half a day lost. Now you don&#8217;t have that half a day. You just dive straight in, so yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:33] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And also probably the interest as well. You know, you&#8217;ll have lost a few kids along the way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:37] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> We did. Half of them lost it halfway through.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. Anyway, so keep your eye on Playground, and also I&#8217;ll link to the episode that I did with Adam Zielinski. The problem with that episode is it goes out of date like in a heart beat because everything&#8217;s changing so quick. Which actually leads me nicely to that question in terms of Learn. Because in the last five, six years, WordPress has changed phenomenally, but it feels like that pace of change, especially in the last year, has gone even more critical.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The UI is about to change entirely for massive part, well, in fact has in many ways, but is about to undergo major changes. How do you keep up with all of this? And I mean obviously you do it by doing the work, but that must be a constant kind of thorn in the side of a project like Learn, because you release a piece of content and then six weeks later, oh okay, that no longer works, we&#8217;ve got to go back. So it must be this constant cycle of check that it&#8217;s still working, okay, remake the videos, try to slot it in somewhere, make sure all the links are working.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:38] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> I will say that this is one area where the learning pathways sort of project that we have now, and the learning pathway itself is essentially just a course in an LMS. And I think you mentioned this in the last podcast, we&#8217;re using Sensei underneath. But it&#8217;s just a really big course. In the past we&#8217;ve had courses which were like four or five lessons and that was the course. Now we&#8217;re talking about 50 lessons or whatever, broken down into modules with activities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But structurally it&#8217;s just a course. It&#8217;s nothing special, but it&#8217;s a course with a very specific goal. And so one of the things that we try and do is we try and isolate specific topics within each module, and then within each lesson with each module, we try and isolate even further.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>My experience has been that a lot of what I&#8217;m teaching is foundational software development within WordPress, which doesn&#8217;t really change much. That having been said, there&#8217;s a contributor that I&#8217;ve been working with, Cynthia Norman, you might know her, she&#8217;s from Canada. She recently won the Kim Parsell Memorial Scholarship to WordCamp US. She has been working with me on the theme developer learning pathway.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And in the process of that thing, so we started working on that at about the beginning of this year. And in the process of that, we had a number of things pop up here and there that have changed. My general attitude about these things, and this might be because I&#8217;m a developer primarily, an educator second to that. But my general attitude about these things is that, even though something has changed, the core content is still useful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yes, it does require you to maybe overlook some UI change. Maybe a button is a different text, or it&#8217;s in a place, or whatever. But underneath it all, it&#8217;s all more or less the same. My colleague Wes, also an Automattician, also sponsored to work with the training team, focusing on the user facing side, he has a much harder time, because things change a lot more drastically for him than what they do for me. But his advantage there is his courses, his learning pathways are a little bit shorter than mine because there&#8217;s not so much in depth technical knowledge that he needs to present.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So yes, it is a realistic thing. It&#8217;s a conversation we have many, many, many, times, and we&#8217;ve kind of settled on, we will fix it in post, if you will. So we wait for somebody, as much as we can, we wait for somebody to report the issue and then we fix it when it&#8217;s reported. That might seem a little bit silly to some folks, but ultimately that&#8217;s our advantage with the fact that we don&#8217;t rely on the income of the sale of these courses to be able to get folks learning them. So if it&#8217;s not super, super up to date, it&#8217;s not the end of the world really.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that&#8217;s where I say I respect folks who are having to keep super, super up to date, because if they don&#8217;t, then people don&#8217;t pay for their courses. So that&#8217;s our little bit of an advantage.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I still have people coming back to me today, I did two courses on Block Themes. Developers Guide to Block Themes in 2022, and that is now 3, 4, 5 versions out of date. But I still have people coming back to me and saying, this was still valuable because it gave me the core foundational knowledge that I didn&#8217;t have, and then I could just build on top of that. So I don&#8217;t see that to be a huge problem. We just need to, when we&#8217;re planning these things, we do need to be aware of them. We do need to be fairly reactive when things do get picked up.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What&#8217;s great is we have Anne McCarthy working with us. So Anne McCarthy is one of our subject matter experts in the training team. And she will often, when she sees a change coming, she will tag us. And so there&#8217;s actually one lesson in the beginner developer learning pathway that I&#8217;m going to be editing this week. Because Anne tagged a change that was coming in, I think 6.6, and I&#8217;m going to be editing it this week to make that difference. So we do have those kind of feedback loops, which is very helpful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s really nice. It just all speaks to the whole thing, there&#8217;s a cohesion there. And that kind of leads me into this next thing, and it feels as if, I don&#8217;t really know how to encapsulate this in a question, it&#8217;s maybe more just an opinion. But it does feel like projects like Learn, so learn.wordpress.org, or we&#8217;ll just call it Learn, have got a much more, air quotes, I&#8217;m doing air quotes, professional thing about them. That&#8217;s not a particularly well worded question. Let me try that again. It feels like, things like Learn are more professional now than they were before.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That isn&#8217;t to say that what was before was unprofessional, but it does seem like there is more focus on making things utterly complete. You know, look professional from the outset. Have a nice UI. Have a nice UX. All of those things being taken into consideration. Is it just me? Is that just coincidence? Or is there some sort of imperative to make things look, and again, air quotes, enterprise ready. Is there something going on there?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:45] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> So I would say that the phrase is not enterprise ready, but the phrase you could think about as, let&#8217;s do great work. This is public information. So you might remember there was some kerfuffle a while back on the Core, the Make Core blog about the redesign of the WordPress.org landing page. And Matt was quite vocal about the fact that sometimes design by committee doesn&#8217;t work. Sometimes somebody needs to make a decision and take a stance and say, this is the way we&#8217;re going, this is the way we&#8217;re doing things because this will take us to where we need to go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I remember vividly when I went to my first WordCamp Europe in 2018 in Serbia, I was still working as a freelancer at the time, I wasn&#8217;t even working at Castos yet. I was working as a freelancer at Codeable, and I had the opportunity to travel to WorldCamp Europe. You might remember, you actually messaged me in Slack and said, is that you asking a question? Because I think you saw me on the YouTube stream or something.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:30] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I did, yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:31] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> That was the first time I got to ask a question of Matt ever in my life. And my question to him was, why the block editor? Why are we doing all of this? And I mean I wasn&#8217;t an Automattician at the time, I was just a freelance WordPress developer contributing to the project where I could. And the answer that he gave me that day kind of stuck with me. And he said, what brought us to where we are now is not going to take us to where we need to go. And that is kind of what all of this is about.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, I&#8217;ve never had this conversation with Matt, my CEO, around this. This is still back to when I was still, this is Matt, my BDFL. But I&#8217;ve always felt that it&#8217;s interesting, I come from PHP based open source software. So my experience of open source communities was largely framed by the communities I was involved in, which was the PHP community, the Cake PHP community, and the Laravel community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In those communities, the founder, the creator of the software, the BDFL, whatever you want to call them, has a very distinct and controlling voice. If you look at the Laravel software, Taylor Otwell says, this is what we&#8217;re doing. And he doesn&#8217;t ask for anybody&#8217;s opinions. He says, this is what we&#8217;re doing, and this is the way we&#8217;re going to go forward. And nobody shouts about it. Nobody complains.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, I&#8217;m not saying we shouldn&#8217;t have a voice and we shouldn&#8217;t have opinions, but I do believe in any software, open source or closed, or otherwise, there needs to be somebody who makes a final choice. There needs to be a captain of the ship. And sometimes we need to disagree with the captain&#8217;s decision, but commit to whatever the vision is and see if it works. And sometimes we just need to let the captain make the decision and hope for the best. Sometimes it&#8217;s going to work out, sometimes it isn&#8217;t.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I do feel like, and again, this is not something I&#8217;ve been impressed upon internally or otherwise. I do feel like Matt has decided he wants to sort of take the ship in a certain direction, because he believes that this is the right direction for the ship, and the redesign is part of that. You may have noticed, he is commenting on the Core blog, posting on the Core blog a lot more than he ever used to. My perception is that he feels the need to sort of take control again because he sees a certain vision and he needs to guide the ship in that vision.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And my opinion on that is, well, it&#8217;s his software ultimately. Were it not for him and Mike launching this, and driving this forward, I wouldn&#8217;t be doing this today. So sometimes I need to step back and let the vision play itself out, and see where it goes. And so far it seems to be working.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:41] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, if you obsess about WordPress quite as much as I do, you would see these little tendrils of professionalism in the way that WordPress is presenting itself. Now, you may like the design of, I don&#8217;t know, the wordpress.org redesign that happened recently, you know, the showcase, and all of those kind of things. You may like them, you may not, but they are kind of opinionated. They seem be very modern. And they are, and I was just using the phrase earlier, enterprise ready, they just speak of, okay, this project isn&#8217;t stale. We are here for your small projects, but we&#8217;re also here for your gigantic projects as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And feels like the impetus on having people like you, boots on ground, paying for you to make this content, it feels that that whole thing is just some sort of bigger vision in the background, which isn&#8217;t necessarily spoken about, but all of the little bits and pieces together mean that, yeah, you can have confidence that there&#8217;s some bigger picture going on. There&#8217;s a direction, there&#8217;s an arrow going in a certain direction.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, okay, so I&#8217;ve got a final question, and that is that, if I go to learn.wordpress.org, I&#8217;m a lucky person in that my native language is English. So everywhere I go, I see everything written in English, and that makes my life tremendously easy. Now, I know that a lot of people speak English but, how do we educate the people who don&#8217;t?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:56] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> That&#8217;s a great question. So that is my blessing and my curse. I grew up in a country where English is my first language. I might be living in Africa, but English is my first language. So that means I can easily create and consume that content, but it&#8217;s very difficult for me to translate it. I could translate it to Afrikaans, but that&#8217;s only going to help South Africa, not the rest of the world.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that is something that we do need. We do need more folks translating content. Now, we are very fortunate in the training team that we have a number of English second language speakers. One of our team reps, Ben, who you might have met at WordCamp Europe this year, I know he spoke about Learn WordPress. He&#8217;s originally Australian, but grew up in Japan. So Japanese is actually his first language, and English is his second language ironically. And so he&#8217;s very committed towards, internationalising our Learn WordPress content. So we need translators.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>One of the reasons why we have the text version of all content on Learn WordPress is so that somebody can translate it. It&#8217;s also the reason we have subtitles, not only for accessibility, but so that someone can translate those subtitles as well. But that only happens with translators, and it&#8217;s not something that I can do. So if you are a translator, if you are somebody who speaks another language and you want to contribute to WordPress, one of the easiest things you can do is take one of the lessons in any one of the courses and help us translate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In our Make training team site, in our handbook, we have an onboarding page, and one of the options in that onboarding is, I want to translate content. So we want to try and make it as easy as possible for folks to translate, but we need those folks to come on board. And so getting the word out there is probably one of our biggest tasks, is to get as many translators as we can because one of our goals is to make all this content somehow fully translated.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> We&#8217;ve spoken relentlessly for the last 40 minutes in very positive tones about Learn, but obviously there&#8217;s going to be things like that, like translations, also missing content. Content that is on the roadmap, but far away.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:44] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> You saw one of them the other day when you were going through the course on your podcast. One of the episodes, one of the lessons had been, what had happened? And I don&#8217;t mind sharing the story because it&#8217;s quite funny. So somebody had translated the lesson and then assigned it to the course, not realising that doing that would&#8217;ve overwritten the original English one. So what you saw was I think a Tamil translation of that lesson.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:42:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:42:01] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> So, wonderful that the person did the translation, but we hadn&#8217;t quite figured out the process of translating it yet, which is why it came up.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:42:07] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That was a funny moment. But the broader question there is, obviously you need more boots on the ground, the project will never be finished, it&#8217;s just not the nature of it. Where do people go if they&#8217;re interested, having listened to this, they&#8217;re interested? I mean, maybe you want to drop a Slack channel, or an email address, or a URL. Whatever you think will serve best for getting people involved with learn.wordpress.org.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:42:29] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> So the best thing that I can suggest is go to make.wordpress.org/training. So that&#8217;ll take you to the training team blog. And then right at the top of that page, just next to the Make WordPress training title, there&#8217;s a link that says Getting Started. Click on that link, scroll down a little bit, and there&#8217;s a video of Ben, who I mentioned earlier, introducing you to the training team. And then there&#8217;s an entire onboarding process.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Go through that process. In my opinion, as somebody who&#8217;s been contributing to WordPress for about nine years, we have, as the trading team, one of the best onboarding pages in the teams, because Ben really took the time to sit down and go, right, what do new folks need to know? Where do we need to guide them?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He even takes you through your first sort of three contributions and how to do that. And then we also have, tied into that, we have what we call the Training Guide Program, where if you want to, you can get paired up with a training team member to take you through the onboarding process, if you need someone to take you through that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So if you want to get involved, if you&#8217;re a translator, and I&#8217;m going to start calling for people here now. If you&#8217;re a translator, if you&#8217;re somebody who can do research and script writing. If you&#8217;re somebody who likes to review these videos and give us feedback. If you&#8217;re somebody who&#8217;s a video editor and you can edit from a recorded voice, you can just put images together and create videos, please go to that site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it&#8217;s make.wordpress.org/training, go through the onboarding process and see what role you fit in. And then join us. That onboarding takes you through to where to join in the Slack channel, and who the team is, and what we do, and who the team, it covers everything. But that would be the place that I would recommend you get started.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:43:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s really interesting because, usually when there&#8217;s a teacher student relationship, it&#8217;s very much top down. The teacher has all the expertise and is going to disseminate it down. But from what you&#8217;ve said, anybody, whether you be a video editor, an audio editor, whether you&#8217;re just interested in reviewing content, or translating content, there&#8217;s a place. You don&#8217;t have to be that right at the top, educator, down. There&#8217;s a whole jigsaw of different jobs underneath which are needed, okay.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:44:25] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> And I&#8217;m going to cheat a little bit here, and I&#8217;m also going to say this. And this is my opinion, this is not the opinion of my company, this is not the opinion of the team, but this is my personal opinion. As somebody who has been contributing for the last nine years to multiple different teams, the beauty of Learn WordPress is we are our own little enclosed environment. We have our own code base for learn.wordpress.org. So if you want to commit patches, and bugs, and pull requests, you do it to that code base on its own. You don&#8217;t have to finagle WordPress develop. We&#8217;ve got our own one. And the content is all managed on our own GitHub repository within that, sort of, code base repository.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we&#8217;re kind of, I always talk about us as this very sort of elite strike force within the WordPress community, focused on learning. And we have all the elements and all the access that we need. We don&#8217;t need to really bother other teams like I&#8217;m sure you know, if you want to fix something on wordpress.org, you have to commit code here, and you have to connect with meta, and you have to log a bug over here. It&#8217;s kind of all over the place. If you want to commit to Core, you&#8217;ve got to find the right Slack channel for the right thing, and the right component, whatever.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Learn is self-contained. So it&#8217;s one of the best places to contribute for the first time, if you&#8217;re a first time contributor, because everything is in one space. We don&#8217;t really have to bother other teams too much. We&#8217;ve got all the tools we need, and we just need more, as you say, boots on the floor to achieve our goals.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:45:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That is absolutely perfect. I will make sure that all of the bits and pieces that you mentioned just then get into the show notes. So head over to wptavern.com and search for the episode with Jonathan Bossenger in it. So that&#8217;s all the questions that I&#8217;ve got. Thank you so much for chatting to me today, Jonathan. I&#8217;ve really appreciated it, thank you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:45:49] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> Awesome. No problem. Thank you so much for having me. And I would just like to say, to everybody who was in the, where you highlighted of the developer learning pathway. So it was yourself, Tammie was there, Michelle, and I can&#8217;t remember the other chap&#8217;s name.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I just want to say what a wonderful experience it was watching something that I&#8217;ve spent the better past of the last year working on, being so well received by folks in the community. One of the comments that was made, I can&#8217;t remember the chap&#8217;s name, but he said something about, he can see that there is a love for this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that really just touched me because that is exactly where I come from. There&#8217;s a love to teach others, and it&#8217;s so nice to see that this is appreciated by our community. So I just want to say thank you to you, for highlighting it for everybody who was in that podcast. It was a really, really cool day, and I spent the entire day with this massive smile on my face.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:46:33] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Oh, nice. Well, that makes me happy. Thank you so much for chatting to me today, Jonathan. Really appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:46:38] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> No problem. Thank you.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://jonathanbossenger.com/about/\">Jonathan Bossenger</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jonathan, based in Cape Town, South Africa, has been an integral part of the WordPress community for nearly a decade. Transitioning from software development to web and then WordPress development, he found his passion in education. Since attending his first WordCamp in 2015, he has focused on creating educational content for WordPress developers. Now employed at Automattic as a developer educator, he contributes to the Learn platform, helping to train and guide new developers in the WordPress ecosystem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He’s on the podcast today to explain some of the ways that you can learn WordPress with up to date, freely available content. We discuss the goal of making WordPress learning accessible globally, especially for those who can&#8217;t afford expensive courses.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The discussion gets into the transformative potential of the Learn WordPress platform, especially in the era of Playground, which will enable interactive coding practice without the need for external tools. Jonathan sees this as a game-changer for web agencies, providing a streamlined training resource for new developers and conserving valuable time and resources.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We cover Jonathan&#8217;s journey from software developer to developer educator, supported by his former employer, Castos. He shares the challenges of keeping educational content current amidst WordPress&#8217;s rapid evolution, and the importance of staying updated with WordPress Core developments.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The conversation also touches on the structured learning pathways designed to guide learners from beginner to advanced levels, segmented into user, designer, and developer categories.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The professionalisation of WordPress projects like Learn, and the essential role of contributors in translating and internationalising content to reach a broader audience comes under the microscope as well, and Jonathan reflects upon the dynamic nature of open-source communities, stressing the need for decisive leadership in software development decisions from time to time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Towards the end we talk about the many ways that you can assist the Learn project, and there are many&nbsp; more ways than you might imagine.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you’re curious about how people learn about WordPress, and how you can be a part of that project, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn WordPress</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://castos.com/\">Castos</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://tinyseed.com/\">TinySeed</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://deliciousbrains.com/\">Delicious Brains</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/\">Make WordPress Training</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/five-for-the-future/\">Five for the Future</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/playground/\">WordPress Playground</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://senseilms.com/\">Sensei LMS</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wordpressfoundation.org/projects/kim-parsell-memorial-scholarship/\">Kim Parsell Memorial Scholarship</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/handbook/\">Make WordPress Training Handbook</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wptavern.com/the-wordpress-training-teams-big-changes-learning-pathways-and-website-redesign\">The WordPress Training Team’s Big Changes: Learning Pathways and Website Redesign</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://jonathanbossenger.com/\">Jonathan&#8217;s website</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 06 Sep 2024 13:15:06 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:22;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:96:\"Do The Woo Community: Inclusivity, Community Trust, and Fair Pay with Megan Rose and Mike Conley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85559\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:93:\"https://dothewoo.io/inclusivity-community-trust-and-fair-pay-with-megan-rose-and-mike-conley/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:19520:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-30 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p class=\"has-secondary-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-9acf640b7ba38a84a982fc35d618387f\">This show is sponsored by&#8230;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-29 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-7 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-26 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-15 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-25 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"750\" height=\"750\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Kinsta-Hosting.jpg?resize=750%2C750&ssl=1\" alt=\"Kinsta Hosting\" class=\"wp-image-85514\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-container-content-16\"><strong><a href=\"https://kinsta.com/?utm_source=dothewoo&utm_medium=Referral&utm_campaign=website\">Kinsta</a></strong>: Offering a high-performance hosting platform with managed WordPress hosting, powered by Google Cloud, ensuring fast load times and robust security. </p>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-8 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-28 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-17 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-27 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"1509\" height=\"1038\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Woo-logo-color.png?resize=1509%2C1038&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-77744\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-container-content-18\"><strong><a href=\"https://woocommerce.com/products/\">Woo Marketplace</a></strong> &#8211; Grow your business with hundreds of solutions for your clients or your own store.</p>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p>Birgit:<br />Hi, I am your host, Birgit, and we are here with another episode of <em>The WordPress Way</em>, where we dive deep into the heart and soul of WordPress, exploring the cutting edge and the incredible people shaping its future. I have two lovely guests today on our show, and I would love for them to introduce themselves. I have onboard Megan and Mike. Please, Megan, tell our audience a bit about yourself.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Megan:<br />Hi. Yeah, so I&#8217;m Megan Rose. I’ve been pretty active in the WordPress community since around 2014, so people might know me from there. I’m based in northeast Ohio, and I work with the WordPress community here, as well as on the WordCamp US organizing team and the Incident Response Team. Alternatively, people might know me from Codeable, where I’m the Head of Community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Birgit:<br />That’s impressive. To explain to the audience, you and I met previously at several WordCamps, and it’s really good to see that someone like you is also part of the Incident Response Team, which plays a crucial role in improving DEIB. Mike, would you mind telling the audience a bit about yourself?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />Sure. I also work at Codeable alongside Megan, and we’re on the same team. That’s how I ended up here—we’re recently coworkers, and she just asked if I’d be willing to come on. Let’s see, my background is not in WordPress. The majority of my background—and my degree, in fact—is in social work, but I also have a few years of experience in sales and other customer-facing roles. In my, I guess, “free time”—or rather, not-work-related time—I’ve also been a volunteer. It’s called a Harassment and Grievance Officer, doing similar code of conduct work for a local community organization.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Birgit:<br />Wow, really impressive. It’s interesting to learn more about coworkers while recording a podcast. As Mike said, I also recently joined Codeable within the support team, but nevertheless, I invited you both because we share a common passion for improving diversity and fostering inclusion. Mike, you mentioned the code of conduct work—how do you approach that best? For me, English is not my first language, so sometimes it’s difficult to articulate myself clearly. Please bear with me. I’ve prepared some questions and would love to hear from you, Megan. Can you share your experience with community management and the strategies you’ve found effective in fostering an inclusive environment? You mentioned you’re on the Incident Response Team within the global WordPress community. Could you share some of your experiences and what you encounter daily?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Megan:<br />Yeah, sure. I’ll start by saying my experiences are my own and not necessarily shared by others at Codeable, but when I first got involved in the WordPress community, it felt a little like a boys’ club. There were times when community members would say things that made me uncomfortable, and I even had someone slide into my DMs at one point. So, I knew I had some work ahead of me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because I already had experience handling code of conduct issues and felt confident tackling these kinds of challenges—and with the support of management—I dove right into laying the groundwork for a more welcoming environment, especially for women and gender minorities. One of the first things I did was introduce a code of conduct process. I actually borrowed heavily from the WordPress community&#8217;s code of conduct.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In WordPress, there are two codes of conduct: one is event-specific, used at WordCamps, and the other is the overarching one that was introduced, I believe, in 2020, when things moved online due to the pandemic. The shift to online spaces made it clear we needed a more comprehensive approach. I adapted that structure and began reporting at the end of the year on how many incidents were dealt with, anonymizing the data for privacy. I think that helped build trust, especially within gender minority and LGBTQ+ groups, who had previously experienced discomfort in the community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We also made adjustments to our termination procedures, requiring a staff vote, and moved towards more education-focused responses rather than purely punitive measures. I’m proud of my ability to have one-on-one conversations with people who may have said or done something that made someone else feel unwelcome. Often, these are long conversations, but they help change minds and foster better understanding.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Birgit:<br />That’s really interesting. You mentioned the global WordPress community, but you also work with Codeable, fostering its expert community, which exists within the broader WordPress ecosystem. Given the male-dominated nature of this field and the cultural diversity, how do you navigate conversations about inclusive language and respect? For example, when I attended the CloudFest Hackathon, I worked on improving the check for inclusive language within WordPress. Though the project didn’t turn out as I envisioned, I learned a lot about cultural perspectives. How do you raise awareness when issues occur, especially when different people might have different boundaries or triggers?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Megan:<br />Yeah, I think goal number one when I first started was to earn the community’s trust and respect. That’s not something that happens overnight. Everyone’s worked somewhere where a new person comes in and starts making big changes, and it can feel off-putting. So, I didn’t want to be that person. I spent a lot of time just having casual, one-on-one conversations, getting to know people, and building trust.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>When people have experienced negative things in the past and reported them with no real outcome, there’s a silencing effect. They’re less likely to report things again in the future. I made it a priority to show that there was a process in place and that it would be followed fairly. In some cases, people reported incidents to me directly, expressing fear that following the formal process might negatively impact the income of the person they were reporting. It’s a complicated situation when you’re afraid of affecting someone’s livelihood. This can make it harder for people to come forward, and I think that hesitation exists within the WordPress space as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Birgit:<br />Yes, thank you for sharing that insight. As you mentioned, some people may be hesitant to report incidents because they feel their concerns aren&#8217;t serious enough, or they fear consequences. But everyone has different boundaries, and we need to have systems that allow people to express discomfort or request mediation. One of the things I love about the WordPress community is that, overall, we care for each other. Mike, as someone newer to the WordPress community, but with a background in social work, could you share your observations about the WordPress ecosystem, especially compared to your previous experiences?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />Sure. Like I said, most of my background is in social work, which definitely helps in customer service roles. My direct experience with WordPress or open-source communities has been limited, but as a teenager, I was really into Mozilla and the launch of Firefox. I’ve always been more interested in the philosophical side of open source rather than the software development side.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>From an outside perspective, I try to bring a sense of non-judgmental acceptance, something I learned from social work. This helps when dealing with code of conduct situations where people make mistakes, but that doesn’t mean they’re bad people. Mistakes happen. I try to approach these situations with empathy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>When we talk about diversity in open source, especially WordPress, I think there’s a bit of a contradiction. WordPress exists within capitalism, and as long as a handful of companies control WordPress, we can’t fully democratize publishing the way we might hope.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Birgit:<br />You bring up a really interesting point. There’s always that tension between the community-driven aspect of WordPress and the capitalist environment it operates within. I remember discussions about creating a governance board for WordPress—there’s still some optimism around that. From your perspective, how can we reconcile these contradictions and push for more transparency and fairness, especially when it comes to pay equity?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />Yeah, we’ve talked about this before. I believe transparency is crucial, especially when it comes to pay. It’s easy for companies to say they care about diversity, but it means nothing if there’s a significant pay disparity that goes unaddressed. Gender-based pay disparities, for example, are still very common, and they’re not something that should be shrugged off as someone else’s problem. It’s our problem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Take a company like Buffer, for example. They’ve publicly listed every employee’s name and salary on their website. That kind of transparency is how you show you’re serious about fairness. In the U.S., it’s illegal for companies to prevent employees from discussing their salaries, but people are still discouraged from doing so. If you really care about diversity and inclusion, that transparency has to be there, and it starts with talking to your coworkers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Birgit:<br />That’s a powerful point, and it connects to the broader conversation about company culture. It’s not just about what you do as an individual but about creating systemic changes. Megan, you mentioned some great strategies earlier about de-escalation and setting boundaries. Would you mind expanding on that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Megan:<br />Sure. De-escalation is one of my favorite things—it feels like an art form to me. I try to blend it seamlessly into conversations, often using humor to diffuse tension. If things get heated, especially during a video call, I might make a joke like, “Well, we all know politicians always have our best interests at heart, right?” It’s a light way of finding common ground, without getting preachy. Humor works in face-to-face or video interactions but might not be appropriate in something like Slack.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>When humor doesn’t work, I’m comfortable with a hard pivot. If someone’s talking about something I don’t want to engage with, I might just say, “Okay, let’s move on.” You can also ask people about their personal interests—like how their kids are doing in school. It helps shift the conversation without creating conflict.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Birgit:<br />That’s such a useful approach, and it really resonates with me. And speaking of personal milestones, I have to mention—today was my grandson’s first day of school. He’s six years old, and I’m so proud.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike, to wrap things up, could you share some tips on improving written communication, especially in support roles, where you often only have text to work with?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />Absolutely. One of the biggest things I’ve noticed is that people often aren’t clear in their communication because they assume others understand the context. This can be especially true with native speakers, who might use casual language or euphemisms that aren’t clear to everyone. My advice is to always draft your message, then reread it from the perspective of someone who doesn’t know what you’re thinking. Precision is key—being direct and clear avoids misunderstandings.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Another tip is to focus on being non-judgmental, especially when addressing mistakes. We all make errors, but that doesn’t define us as people. It’s important to approach situations with empathy and understanding.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Birgit:<br />Thank you both for sharing your insights and personal stories. It’s been a truly enlightening conversation. I hope everyone listening takes a moment to reflect on what we’ve discussed—pat yourselves on the back for the work you’re doing, but also remember to take care of your own mental health. Megan, Mike, I’m so grateful for your time today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in to <em>The WordPress Way</em>. We hope today’s conversation has sparked new ideas and inspired you to engage more deeply within the WordPress community and your work environment. DEIB isn’t just about numbers; it’s about making real changes that foster belonging and respect for everyone. Keep the conversation going by sharing this episode, and join us again next month as we explore more important DEIB topics and meet the leaders driving change. Don’t forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, so you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep pushing the envelope and doing WordPress the right way.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode of <em><strong>The WordPress Way</strong></em>, host <strong>Birgit</strong> is joined by two incredible guests, <strong>Megan Rose</strong>, Head of Community at <strong>Codeable</strong> and a key member of the WordPress Incident Response Team, and <strong>Mike Conley</strong>, also from <strong>Codeable</strong>, with a background in social work and customer service. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Together, they dive into the complexities of fostering inclusive and welcoming environments within the WordPress ecosystem and beyond. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The conversation touches on <strong>Megan</strong>&#8216;s experience managing community code of conduct processes, <strong>Mike</strong>&#8216;s insights into diversity and inclusion, and how both are working to promote positive change.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Building Trust in Communities</strong>: When stepping into leadership or community management roles, it’s essential to first build trust with the members. This requires time, one-on-one conversations, and an understanding of the existing dynamics.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Code of Conduct Implementation</strong>: Introducing a clear and transparent code of conduct can foster a safer and more welcoming environment. Megan emphasized the importance of having processes in place for handling incidents, reporting them anonymously, and ensuring follow-through to build confidence in the community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>De-escalation and Conflict Resolution</strong>: Megan shared practical techniques for de-escalating tense conversations, particularly in a global and diverse community. Humor, setting boundaries, and using a &#8220;hard pivot&#8221; to shift topics can be effective strategies.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Importance of Transparency and Fairness in Pay</strong>: Mike highlighted the need for transparency in compensation, arguing that real diversity and inclusion efforts are incomplete without addressing pay disparities. They/them advocates for open discussions about pay and collective action to address inequalities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Written Communication in Customer Support</strong>: In support roles, written communication is key. Mike suggested drafting and rereading responses from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with the situation to ensure clarity and avoid misunderstandings.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Navigating Global Cultural Differences</strong>: In a globally distributed community like WordPress, cultural differences must be acknowledged and respected. Community leaders should foster inclusive environments that take into account diverse perspectives and backgrounds.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Promoting Inclusivity in Male-Dominated Fields</strong>: The WordPress and tech industries can sometimes feel male-dominated, but intentional efforts, like those from Megan, to create welcoming spaces for women and gender minorities can make a significant impact.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Democratizing Governance and Decision-Making</strong>: The conversation touched on the broader topic of democratizing the structures within the WordPress ecosystem and the companies that support it, including calls for more employee representation and shared decision-making in companies.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/megabyterose/\">Megan on WordPress.org</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://www.codeable.io/story/\">Codeable</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/handbook/community-code-of-conduct/\">WordPress Community Code of Conduct</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/incident-response-team-training/\">WordPress Incident Response Team training</a></strong></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:39:58 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:23;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:88:\"WPTavern: WordPress 6.7 Roadmap Includes New Default Theme, APIs, and Media Enhancements\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=161079\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:97:\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-6-7-roadmap-includes-new-default-theme-apis-and-media-enhancements\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3517:\"<p>Anne McCarthy has unveiled the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/09/03/roadmap-to-6-7/\">roadmap for WordPress 6.7</a>, slated for release on November 12, 2024. This will be the final major update of the year.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>She has emphasized that “More than anything though, this release brings refinement to how everything connects together to create a more seamless WordPress experience, whether you’re trying to upload a HEIC image to your site or display a selection of posts with the Query Loop block.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.7 will ship with a new default theme, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/15/introducing-twenty-twenty-five/\">Twenty Twenty-Five</a>, that “embodies ultimate flexibility and adaptability”. Fully compatible with the Site Editor, the theme features high-quality fonts supporting multiple languages, a variety of color palettes, and an extensive collection of patterns.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This release will also include two new APIs designed to simplify developers&#8217; workflows:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://wptavern.com/gutenberg-19-1-introduces-plugin-template-registration-api\">Template Registration API</a> to allow templates and template parts to be registered directly within plugins without filters.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Preview Options API to expand the Preview dropdown menu in the post/page editor and add greater flexibility in preview functionality.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Several existing APIs, such as the Interactivity API, Block Bindings API, and HTML API, will also see enhancements.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>New features offering more flexibility and functionality will improve the data view experience. Users can expect options to hide or show filters in the interface, adjust the density of information in the grid layout, and configure the grid layout&#8217;s aspect ratio to their preferences.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The Query Loop block will be updated to ease customization. Improvements include refining settings copy and context detection for a more intuitive user experience. For a better editing experience, WordPress 6.7 will introduce an option to zoom out and work at the pattern level. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Significant updates to media handling are also on the way, including <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/15/automatic-conversion-of-heic-images-to-jpeg-in-wordpress-6-7/\">HEIC support</a>, auto sizes for lazy loaded images, and more background image support at individual and global levels.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Other highlights of WordPress 6.7 include:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Updates to design tools, including shadow support for Group blocks.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Improved support for PHP 8.x and removing code specific for unsupported versions.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>A new split view for the iframe post editor to ensure a consistent WYSIWYG experience.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Removing the experimental status of typography blocks</li>\n\n\n\n<li>A new feature in the Styles interface allowing users to customize theme presets.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Anne has cautioned that the new features mentioned in the post “ is being actively pursued, but doesn’t necessarily mean each will make it into the final release of WordPress 6.7.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Interested users can look into the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/16/hallway-hangout-recording-lets-chat-about-whats-next-in-gutenberg-august-2024/\">demos</a> shared during a recent hallway hangout to get a glimpse into what&#8217;s being developed for this release and future updates.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 05 Sep 2024 18:03:29 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:24;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:49:\"BuddyPress: BuddyPress 14.1.0 Maintenance Release\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"https://buddypress.org/?p=335040\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"https://buddypress.org/2024/09/buddypress-14-1-0-maintenance-release/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1038:\"<p>Immediately available is <a href=\"https://downloads.wordpress.org/plugin/buddypress.14.1.0.zip\">BuddyPress 14.1.0</a>. This maintenance release fixes 4 bugs. For details on the changes, please read the <a href=\"https://codex.buddypress.org/releases/version-14-1-0/\">14.1.0 release notes</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Update to BuddyPress 14.1.0 today in your WordPress Dashboard, or by <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/buddypress/\">downloading from the WordPress.org plugin repository</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"many-thanks-to-11-1-0-contributors\">Many thanks to 14.1.0 contributors <span class=\"dashicons dashicons-heart\"></span></h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/thomaslhotta\">thomaslhotta</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shailu25/\">shailu25</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/emaralive\">emaralive</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/espellcaste\">espellcaste</a> &amp; <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/imath/\">imath</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 04 Sep 2024 21:41:48 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"Mathieu Viet\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:25;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:51:\"WPTavern: WordPress Blog WPLift Joins E2M Solutions\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=161018\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:62:\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-blog-wplift-joins-e2m-solutions\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2087:\"<p>The popular WordPress blog <a href=\"https://wplift.com/wplift-is-acquired-by-e2m-solutions/\">WPLift has been acquired</a> by E2M Solutions, a leading white-label partner with operations in India and the United States. Founded by Oliver Dale in September 2010 under Kooc Media, WPLift has undergone several ownership changes over the years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Dan Tol acquired the blog from Oliver Dale in 2016 and managed it until 2023 when it was acquired by UnlimitedWP, a WordPress White Label service provider. UnlimitedWP was then acquired by E2M Solutions in June this year, making this latest transition somewhat anticipated.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Manish Dudharejia, the CEO of E2M, <a href=\"https://www.e2msolutions.com/blog/e2m-solutions-officially-acquires-wplift/\">commented on the acquisition</a> saying: “Bringing WPLift into the E2M family is about more than just expanding our reach. It’s about collaboration and community, WPLift enhances our ability to engage with and contribute to the WordPress ecosystem… WPLift is more than just a great media partner for E2M; it’s our way of supporting and giving back to the global WordPress community.” </p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Future Plans</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>The E2M team has confirmed that “WPLift will continue its mission to deliver insightful articles and updates.” Future plans include featuring WP expert interviews, sharing the latest news, and covering WordCamps as a Media Partner.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WPLift’s <a href=\"https://wplift.com/wplift-is-acquired-by-e2m-solutions/\">acquisition announcement</a> says, “ Some things may be changing around WPLift HQ, but we remain as committed as ever to being your trusted source for verifiable news… If there’s just one thing we want you to take away today, it’s that, even after being acquired, the only way things are going to change around here is for the better.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Another WordPress blog, <a href=\"https://x.com/wpbizdev/status/1830874145779056969\">WP BizDev</a>, reacted to the acquisition: “Great to see an agency invest in media. A smart move too.”</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 04 Sep 2024 18:25:23 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:26;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:78:\"Do The Woo Community: A Learning Journey to Accessibility with Maestro Stevens\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85534\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:77:\"https://dothewoo.io/a-learning-journey-to-accessibility-with-maestro-stevens/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18668:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-37 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p class=\"has-secondary-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-9acf640b7ba38a84a982fc35d618387f\">This show is sponsored by&#8230;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-36 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-9 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-33 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-19 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-32 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"500\" height=\"500\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Omnisend-square.jpg?resize=500%2C500&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-78802\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-container-content-20\"><strong><a href=\"https://your.omnisend.com/onlywoo_dothewoo\">Omnisend</a></strong>: Whether it&#8217;s for integration into your Woo product, or building sites for clients, <strong>Omnisend</strong> is the solution for email and SMS marketing with their CRM solution for WooCommerce shops and your own website.</p>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-10 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-35 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-21 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-34 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"1224\" height=\"1224\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Hostinger_Vertical_Purple-e1668465093968.jpg?resize=1224%2C1224&ssl=1\" alt=\"Hostinger\" class=\"wp-image-73505\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-container-content-22\"><strong><a href=\"https://hostinger.com\">Hostinger</a></strong>: As a builder or an agency managing multiple sites, check out <strong>Hostinger</strong>. Whether you are building a WordPress site or specifically, a Woo store, their infrastructure brings your clients sites speed, uptime and security.</p>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p>Anne:<br />Hello everyone. Welcome to yet another session of the notorious, not-so-notorious-yet accessibility podcast at Do the Woo. With me today is Maestro Stevens from Iconic Templates. Now, some of you may know him, while to some of you, he may come as a total surprise. But I promise you, this is going to be a very entertaining conversation about scalability, accessibility, being part of the WordPress community—especially in that regard—and, of course, e-commerce and accessibility. But as usual, we are trying to get guests on the show who are in the midst of learning about or working with accessibility, instead of always featuring people who already know everything. There are so many people who don’t know yet, and we’re going to get the other specialists on for sure at some point. The goal is that we all learn how to implement accessibility in e-commerce because it&#8217;s incredibly important. We are all learning, we are all struggling, and we are all going to get there at some point. Also with us today is Bob Dunn, and today Bob is representing Taeka, who, due to circumstances, couldn’t be with us today. He is here to protect all of you from me and Maestro talking too much about unrelated things, because we like to babble, right, Bob?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>BobWP:<br />Right? Yeah, yeah. I’ll be the podcast bouncer, and that’s it. I’m always accessible to do these things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anne:<br />Yeah, that’s wonderful. So, for people who don’t know me, a little bit of my background: I’m an accessibility specialist and a big mouth in the WordPress community. I love to connect people, I love to learn, I love to teach, and I hope I can bring you some extras every time we do this. And Maestro, I would say let’s go. Can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and what you’re doing in daily life?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maestro:<br />Yes, yes. Thank you, Anne, and thank you, Bob, as well for having me on. I’ve been greatly anticipating this opportunity. But just a little bit about me—as Anne already said, my name is Maestro Stevens, and I am the owner and founder of Iconic Templates. We are a template-based platform for WordPress. It mainly came from me being an advocate and a user of other people’s templates for years, starting my journey, I would say, back in 2008. So, I’m no WordPress &#8220;old-schooler&#8221; as I call it, like the people who came in way before me. But I definitely love the fact that WordPress has given me opportunities, flexibility, and new lessons as far as community and developing websites.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anne:<br />Alright, so what is your accessibility angle, just to put you on the spot?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maestro:<br />When it comes to e-commerce and accessibility, I would say I am a newbie on the cusp of becoming an intermediate person. For me, accessibility is still an ocean of wonders and questions. I’m not a technical person in terms of development, and what I’ve learned about accessibility has a lot to do with development practices and design practices as well. I’m neither a designer nor a developer, so my experience is more relatable to the average person. But what I’ve learned is the importance and necessity of accessibility, because there are many more people in the world who I assumed could access websites, but they can’t because of various disabilities or disadvantages. So, I’m learning. I’m a work in progress, but I’ve learned a lot so far. In the e-commerce world, especially, it’s critical—because people can’t buy what they can’t see. If they can’t access your website or experience it in certain ways, how can you expect them to purchase your product?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anne:<br />And it’s not just about seeing, right? It’s always interesting that accessibility is thought of as something for people who are blind, but the group of people affected is so much larger. You’re missing out on a ton of conversions if your website is filled with sliders and moving elements. Accessibility as an important part of your conversion strategy is something people tend to forget. And I know you like to look at things from a larger perspective. I find it interesting that you don’t have a development background, because that’s important for everyone to know, especially when creating websites. I mean, WordPress enables us to install WooCommerce and create a webshop without knowing what we’re doing. In a sense, it guides us, which is wonderful. But if you’re working at a professional level, you have to understand—just like with bookkeeping—you don’t have to know how to do your own bookkeeping, but you need to be able to read the numbers. So, I’m challenging you here. This is what we call &#8220;shooting at an open goal.&#8221; Now, if there are conversion advantages to accessibility, especially in e-commerce, what advantages do you see? Can you expand on that? And I have the same question for Bob, actually.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maestro:<br />Yeah, I’ll start with this: The reason I didn’t mention conversions is that I always try to speak to a C-level grade student audience. I consider myself a C-level student. And when I start using big words, people start asking more questions, and they get confused. So, I like to come up with little metaphors, similes, or simple ways to explain things that the average person can understand. Then I give them the &#8220;juice,&#8221; as we say. So yes, you&#8217;re absolutely right. It is about conversions. For example, if you have a button on your website that’s a certain color or it’s developed in a way that makes it jittery or weird, it can make it hard for someone to commit to moving forward to the next step, whether that’s a sale, a subscription, or joining your email list. So, in my opinion, that’s one example of how accessibility can affect conversions—using buttons. As far as I know, links and buttons are what move us forward to the next step on the journey.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anne:<br />Links and buttons—those are an interesting topic. I’ll keep a mental note to get back to that. Bob, what about you? What does accessibility in e-commerce mean to you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>BobWP:<br />Well, I agree a lot with what Maestro said. It’s interesting because I think about accessibility and wonder where we draw the line. I’ll give you an example. Today I was on a site ordering something. When I got to the checkout and entered my address, it gave me two lines—one for the first part of the address and one for the second part. Our address is quite long, and when I hit &#8220;next step,&#8221; it moved the second part of the address onto the first line, saying, “Your address is limited to 34 characters.” So, I had to think, “How can I adjust this to make it deliverable?” And while that might be more of a technical issue with the checkout form, it made me think about accessibility—this was frustrating to me, and I can see and think through the problem. But what kind of issues would this pose for others? It’s strange—these little things can create big problems. For instance, I get vertigo sometimes, and scrolling can be tough for me. But if something comes on the screen with wiggly or strange movements because someone is trying to be clever, it becomes challenging. So, yeah, it’s a constant challenge for far more people than we might imagine.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anne:<br />Yeah, this is so true. Unfortunately, these issues are hard to measure when talking to companies. Whether it’s in the U.S., where they need to be compliant, or here in Europe, where the European Accessibility Act is going to hit like a tsunami, it’s important to understand. You are naming examples here, and they’re hard to measure. Companies complain that they pay SEO specialists thousands every month, and they celebrate when their click rate increases by half a percent. But at some point, they’ll notice that conversions are failing or bounce rates are high. You can spend all the money you want on SEO, but you’ll still have unexplained bounces if your website isn&#8217;t accessible. You can’t measure assistive technology usage—that would be an incredible breach of privacy. This is always a tough discussion between shop owners and companies that need to make their shops accessible. They want numbers, but common sense should also play a role. If you&#8217;re working on a webshop, whether you&#8217;re a developer or not, you need to understand basic things—like buttons and links. Few people outside of coding know that a button does something and a link goes somewhere. People like to wrap links in buttons that look like buttons. In hardcore accessibility circles, people will say, “Don’t do that,” but we’re talking about inclusion here, and everyone should be included, not just people who rely on assistive technology. We are all sensitive to certain stimuli, and we can all benefit from accessibility features. Have you ever tried turning your screen to black and white on your iPhone?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maestro:<br />Yes! To your point, I’ve noticed a trend where people are becoming more conscious of these things. In email templates, for instance, you can’t control the email client—whether it’s Gmail or Yahoo (does anyone still use Yahoo? I’m sure someone does!). And it’s interesting that with Apple’s iOS updates, they&#8217;re allowing users to change the gradients on icons. But when it comes to color changes, I’ve noticed that people who are accessibility-conscious will often change the default link color from blue to something more legible in dark mode, for example. Chrome, Safari, and other browsers all handle accessibility in their own ways, but they don’t always follow the same rulebook.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anne:<br />Doesn’t that scare you a little?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maestro:<br />Yes! It’s both fascinating and scary. There are certain things you just can’t control. But what can you do?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anne:<br />And going back to Bob’s example about the form—this is where UI and UX go hand in hand. People say you can’t make beautiful accessible websites, which is nonsense. But something practical like a form—I love it when a form is coded so it asks, “Do you want to autofill this?” That’s not just helpful for jittery users—it’s helpful for everyone. Accessibility is primarily intended for people who use assistive technology, but then it helps everyone else too. And it’s interesting to see how page builders and themes handle this. Some of them are like, “Hey, look at this beautiful form widget,” but wouldn&#8217;t it be great if you didn’t have to worry whether the browser will offer autofill options?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maestro:<br />Yes, and I’ve seen this a lot, especially with email templates. Different email clients handle accessibility differently, and it’s the same with browsers. But going back to your point—there are so many things we can’t control.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anne:<br />Yeah, it’s like when you’re working with page builders or themes, and they offer these forms that look great, but are they accessible? You need to test that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maestro:<br />Exactly. And this goes back to how accessibility affects conversions. If people can’t use your forms, how can they complete their purchase? It’s all connected.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anne:<br />Absolutely. So, we’ve covered a lot of ground here. Do you have any final thoughts, Maestro, before we wrap up?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maestro:<br />Just that accessibility is a journey. I’m still learning, and I hope to continue improving. It’s important for everyone to start somewhere, and we can all make a difference by making our websites more accessible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anne:<br />Thank you so much for joining us today, Maestro. It was a pleasure having you on the show.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maestro:<br />Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode of the <strong>All Things WordPress and WooCommerce</strong>, hosts <strong>Anne</strong> and BobWP are joined by <strong>Maestro Stevens</strong>, founder of <strong>Iconic Templates</strong>, as he shares his journey of learning accessibility for the web. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Together, they dive into the challenges, opportunities, and strategies for making online stores more accessible, not just for compliance but to improve conversions and user experience for everyone. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Whether you&#8217;re new to accessibility or looking for ways to integrate it into your WordPress projects, this conversation offers valuable insights, practical tips, and reflections from professionals in the process of learning and implementing accessible web practices.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Accessibility is for Everyone</strong>: Accessibility isn’t just about making websites usable for people with visual impairments—it benefits everyone, including those with cognitive, physical, and situational challenges. Making a site accessible improves the overall user experience and helps more people engage with your content or products.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Accessibility and Conversions</strong>: A key point in the discussion was that accessibility directly impacts conversions, especially in e-commerce. If users can&#8217;t navigate your site or interact with elements like buttons or forms, they can’t complete transactions. Accessible design helps remove barriers, ensuring that all users can take the desired actions, such as making purchases.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Growing Awareness in WordPress</strong>: Both Maestro and Anne discussed the growing importance of accessibility in the WordPress and WooCommerce communities. WordPress is actively developing more accessible features, and WooCommerce is improving accessibility in product creation and checkout experiences.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Learning is a Journey</strong>: <strong>Maestro</strong> shared that he’s still learning about accessibility and how to incorporate it into his projects. This is an important reminder that it’s okay to start small and grow your knowledge over time. Tools like the <strong>Accessibility Checker</strong> plugin can help identify areas for improvement.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Collaboration and Communication are Key</strong>: When making websites more accessible, collaboration between developers, designers, and clients is essential. Clear communication about the importance of accessibility can help shift mindsets and lead to better results. Approaching accessibility with respect and consideration encourages progress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>The Role of Assistive Technology</strong>: Assistive technology is critical for people with disabilities, but there’s no easy way to measure how many people use it on your website. As Anne pointed out, some things like form autofill or visual simplicity can help many users, even those who don’t rely on assistive tech.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Continuous Improvement</strong>: As the conversation highlighted, accessibility is not a one-time task but an ongoing process. Regularly updating your website with accessibility in mind ensures that it remains usable for all visitors, including those with different abilities.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://iconictemplates.com\">Iconic Templates</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/maestrostevens/\">Maestro on LinkedIn</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://equalizedigital.com/accessibility-checker\">Accessibility Checker by Equalize Digital</a></strong></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 04 Sep 2024 14:22:23 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:27;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:88:\"Akismet: Demand Generation vs Lead Generation — Use Both to Grow Customers and Revenue\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"http://akismet.com/?p=284132\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:62:\"https://akismet.com/blog/demand-generation-vs-lead-generation/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18397:\"<p>To make a customer, you first have to <em>attract</em> potential customers. But if all you ever do is <em>attract</em> them, and not engage and sell to them, your company won’t grow fast enough. This is why, when you hear about demand generation vs lead generation, your reaction should be that you need both, not one or the&nbsp;other.</p>\n\n\n<p>Neglect either one of these, and your revenue will eventually feel the effects. You’ll either shrink your pool of qualified leads and potential customers, or you’ll fail to convert as many as you should have the ones you have.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In other words, both lead generation and demand generation play huge roles in business growth. You need to commit to and succeed in both if you want to see sustained revenue increases.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<p>Let’s take a look at each&nbsp;concept.</p>\n\n\n<span id=\"more-284132\"></span>\n\n\n<h2 id=\"what-is-demand generation\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What is demand&nbsp;generation?</h2>\n\n\n<p>Demand generation focuses on attracting new potential customers. In funnel speak, the focus here is on top-of-funnel marketing. You’re creating interest and curiosity about your products and services. You’re making people lean in.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<p>When we talk about how marketing is about getting attention amid the intense competition and chaos of the digital world, we’re talking about demand generation. Getting noticed. Being memorable. Becoming part of the conversation in people’s&nbsp;minds.</p>\n\n\n<p>“Did you hear about….” is a demand generation question asked by someone who was successfully marketed to.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h3 id=\"key-components-of-demand generation\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Key components of demand&nbsp;generation</h3>\n\n\n<p>Demand generation refers to any type of marketing whose objective is to gain attention, interest, or curiosity. You’ll ask people to do things like click, read, open, watch, and comment.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Your goal is to position a product, service, or brand as something positive, helpful, useful, or trustworthy in your particular industry.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<p>Demand generation marketing could&nbsp;be:</p>\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Helpful</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Informative</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Memorable</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Trust-building</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Educational </li>\n\n\n\n<li>Free</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Easily-accessible</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>You’ll use tactics such as social media marketing, influencer marketing, email campaigns that aren’t directly selling, giveaways, webinars, and free content. Larger companies might also use legacy media channels like TV and radio.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h3 id=\"the-role-of-demand-generation-in-the-buyerâs journey\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">The role of demand generation in the buyer’s&nbsp;journey</h3>\n\n<p>Not every potential customer is ready to buy right now. But if you’ve done effective demand generation marketing, when the time comes for them to buy, your company or product will be at the top of their&nbsp;mind.</p>\n\n\n<p>At the top of the sales funnel, people are just shopping around. They’re not ready to make decisions. They’re not ready to fill out forms, sign up for consultations, or give you their contact information.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Demand generation marketing engages people who aren’t even looking, and those who are looking but aren’t necessarily that serious about it yet.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For example, a customer may be happy with their current car insurance. But they know they’re planning to buy a new car in the next couple of years, and when they do, they might take a fresh look at their insurance. Demand generation marketing gives them a direction to go when that time comes.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h3 id=\"kpis-and-measurement-of-demand generation\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">KPIs and measurement of demand&nbsp;generation</h3>\n\n<p>Demand generation marketing, broadly speaking, gets measured with broad metrics. You’re focusing here on reach more than&nbsp;engagement.</p>\n\n\n<p>That means things like visibility, social mentions and shares, opens, click-through rates, and webpage traffic.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h2 id=\"what-is-lead generation\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What is lead&nbsp;generation?</h2>\n\n\n<p>While demand generation is about creating desire, spurring positive feelings, and being remembered, lead generation is about inspiring action. With demand generation, no one has to commit to anything. With lead generation, someone is going to call you or fill out a form — and you’re expecting them to do so.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, we’ve moved down the funnel a bit. Desire has grown, and the motivation to act, engage, and possibly buy has taken over. Now, the lead is thinking, “I need this, or I want this, and maybe this is the direction to go.”&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You’ve got their attention. Now, you’re converting that attention into something you hope results in a sale.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h3 id=\"key-components-of-lead generation\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Key components of lead&nbsp;generation</h3>\n\n\n<p>Lead generation refers to any type of marketing whose objective is to collect customer data, initiate follow-up, nurture a relationship, actively engage with prospects, or make an offer and complete a sale. You’ll be asking potential customers to do things like sign up, join, request, try a sample, start a free trial, or make a purchase.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<p>Lead generation always comes with some sort of offer, and usually that’s in exchange for their contact information. This is the goal — to obtain their information so you can follow up and pursue the relationship and an eventual&nbsp;sale.</p>\n\n<p>Lead generation marketing could&nbsp;be:</p>\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Direct</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Specific</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Helpful</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Empowering</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Solution-oriented</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Offer-driven</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Urgent</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n<p>Media for lead generation marketing can overlap quite a bit with demand generation media, but it’s more in how you use it. You can use social media, but the call to action will be more specific than “learn&nbsp;more.”</p>\n\n\n<p>Lead generation tends to be much more effective when done with the help of marketing automation. With automation, you can develop follow-up processes and sequences that you can track for people at all sorts of stages in their customer journeys.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<p>Lead&#8209;gen marketing uses assets like landing pages, paid ads, live chat, and lead magnet tools like white papers, eBooks, free trials, and time&#8209;limited coupons and discounts for new&nbsp;customers.</p>\n\n<p><strong>Pro tip: </strong>Minimize friction at conversion points by reducing the number of fields that prospects must fill out. The quickest way to boost your results is to eliminate CAPTCHAs and other anti&#8209;spam checks. Instead, <a href=\"https://akismet.com/pricing/\">use Akismet</a> to block 99.99% of spam without interrupting the user experience.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<img width=\"1600\" height=\"732\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/image-2.png\" alt=\"Akismet homepage with the text \" />\n\n\n<h3 id=\"the-role-of-lead-generation-in-the-buyerâs journey\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">The role of lead generation in the buyer’s&nbsp;journey</h3>\n\n\n<p>With lead generation, you’re requiring a decision that carries some sort of consequence.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The prospect thinks, “Either I engage with this, and then I can expect certain things to follow, or I can choose not to engage.”&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Lead generation presumes a pre-existing level of interest. If someone complains about being “sold” by your marketing, in the negative sense, that simply means this person hasn’t yet experienced enough of your demand marketing. You’re pushing them too far, too early. They aren’t ready to give you their contact information. They feel “pressured.”&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But a potential customer who knows what they need, knows what they’re looking for, and wants to find a good solution won’t respond to lead generation marketing like that at all. They want it. They want helpful content, answers, customer service, and the opportunity to move forward with someone they believe can help.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h3 id=\"kpis-and-measurement-of-lead generation\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">KPIs and measurement of lead&nbsp;generation</h3>\n\n\n<p>Lead generation gets measured by the sorts of metrics you can more directly link to revenue. This includes things like signups, responses, quote forms filled out, demos requested, free trials started, and conversions. Other lead generation metrics include cost per lead and lead response time.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>All these metrics lead to money. More signups mean more sales. Lower lead response time means more leads engaged more efficiently.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h2 id=\"key-differences-between-demand-and-lead generation\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Key differences between demand and lead&nbsp;generation</h2>\n\n<p>As you’ve probably picked up already, while some overlap exists between demand generation and lead generation, these are very different types of marketing. Let’s explore the differences in more&nbsp;detail.</p>\n\n<h3 id=\"core-focus-and purpose\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Core focus and&nbsp;purpose</h3>\n\n\n<p>Demand generation marketing focuses on building an audience. When this type of marketing has worked, if you speak, people listen. If you make an announcement, people pay attention. You have their trust, or at least their awareness.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<p>Lead generation marketing works at converting the audience you’ve already built through demand generation. If you have 100,000 people who have expressed or felt some level of interest, how many of those can you motivate to give their contact information or request your lead magnet offer? That’s the question lead generation marketing is&nbsp;answering.</p>\n\n\n<img width=\"1600\" height=\"780\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/image.png\" alt=\"WPVIP lead capture form\" class=\"wp-image-284134\" />\n\n\n<h3 id=\"timing-and-stage-in-the-buyerâs journey\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Timing and stage in the buyer’s&nbsp;journey</h3>\n\n\n<p>The timing of both of these types of marketing can vary dramatically.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>On one hand, this can all happen in a single session with a new lead.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Suppose a person already knows they need something you sell, but they haven’t acted on it yet. This person could be called a “warm unknown prospect.” Maybe they’re the type of person who makes fast decisions.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This person sees a post on social media. Their interest is piqued because they’ve already been thinking about something they need related to the content of the post. So, they engage with the post by clicking on it, which takes them to an article on your site.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<p>From there, they explore your site, look at your products, and then come across a lead magnet offer for a 30&#8209;day coupon for new customers. They sign up. Now, the clock is ticking. In less than 30 days, this person could travel through all stages of the buying journey and make a purchase, becoming a&nbsp;customer.</p>\n\n<p>In fact, it could go even faster than that. They could make a purchase the same&nbsp;day.</p>\n\n\n<p>However, the same process could be drawn out over months, even years, for another potential customer.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some industries have shorter sales cycles, and others have longer ones. Sometimes, you continue to nurture and develop the relationship merely to sustain interest. During that time, you also continue to make lead generation offers. Some in your audience will act on those offers.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h3 id=\"strategies-and tactics\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Strategies and&nbsp;tactics</h3>\n\n<p>Strategies for demand generation marketing include things&nbsp;like:</p>\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>Attention&#8209;getting language or multimedia&nbsp;imagery</li>\n\n\n<li>Humor</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Trust-building content</li>\n\n\n<li>Low&#8209;stakes offers like reading reviews and consuming free&nbsp;content</li>\n\n<li>Consistent content and media&nbsp;presence</li>\n\n<li>Low or no&#8209;pressure&nbsp;content</li></ul>\n\n\n<p>Strategies for lead generation marketing include things&nbsp;like:</p>\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>Targeted and measurable offers — including free&nbsp;ones</li>\n\n<li>Lead magnets that collect contact&nbsp;information</li>\n\n\n<li>Follow-up emails</li>\n\n\n<li>Demonstrations, consultations, free&nbsp;trials</li>\n\n<li>New customer discounts, promotions, and&nbsp;giveaways</li>\n\n<li>CTAs that demand a&nbsp;decision</li></ul>\n\n\n<h3 id=\"measurement-and metrics\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Measurement and&nbsp;metrics</h3>\n\n<p>When demand generation works, your audience grows with people who are open to becoming a lead. You’re not reaching out directly to them yet, but if you did, they’d be more likely to be&nbsp;responsive.</p>\n\n\n<p>When lead generation works, your engaged audience is ready to consider becoming a customer.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You measure the metrics that support each of these outcomes.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Demand generation gets measured with visibility, likes, opens, shares, web traffic, views, and seconds or minutes watched, for something like a webinar or a YouTube ad.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Lead generation gets measured with form submissions, demos and consultations scheduled and attended, redeemed coupons, converted free trials, as well as the process-metrics like cost per lead.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h2 id=\"why-you-need-both-lead-and-demand generation\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Why you need both lead and demand&nbsp;generation</h2>\n\n<p>You need both because each type of marketing fills missing gaps in the&nbsp;other.</p>\n\n<p>If all you do is demand generation, you’ll build an audience, but you won’t convert nearly as many of them into paying customers as you should have. If all you do is lead generation, you’ll have too small a pool to draw from, and will be constantly trying to attract new leads from people who’ve never heard of&nbsp;you.</p>\n\n\n<p>Generating leads from total strangers takes a lot more work and money than generating leads from people who are at least familiar with you.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The analogy would be like trying to irrigate a field with water from a trickling stream, rather than an abundant river.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Demand generation provides the river. Lead generation waters the field.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"faqs\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">FAQs</h2>\n\n\n<h3 id=\"can-lead-generation-work-without-prior-demand generation\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Can lead generation work without prior demand&nbsp;generation?</h3>\n\n\n<p>Yes, but it requires a lot more effort, and will usually produce a lot less revenue. With sufficiently targeted marketing, you can create leads from a cold audience. But that target audience, which has to be pre-existing, needs to already be large enough to generate enough quality leads.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h3 id=\"what-are-common-challenges-in-lead-generation-and-how-can-i-overcome them\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What are common challenges in lead generation, and how can I overcome&nbsp;them?</h3>\n\n\n<p>Common challenges include not knowing where to look, not having sufficient follow-up marketing, and being timid in making or closing the sale — letting good leads languish on the vine.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>As for knowing where to look, with demand generation marketing, you can build your own audience and then find leads from there. Other than that, look for pre-existing media where your audience already congregates, such as an industry event. Or, use targeted online advertising.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For the follow-up problem, you want to create the plan before launching the lead gen campaign. Otherwise, you get a bunch of leads, but you miss the opportunity to convert them. Create a plan and a process for how you will contact your leads. Have a phone script. Have an email welcome series. Send them something in the mail.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1600\" height=\"876\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/image-1.png\" alt=\"Email from Dan-O\" class=\"wp-image-284135\" />\n\n\n\n<p>To inspire confidence in prospects to take action, you must first have confidence in your own ability to sell and the essential role your product or service will play in their lives. For larger companies, it takes a highly-trained sales team and a process that works, and that adapts to the needs of the moment for each prospect.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h3 id=\"how-can-akismet-help-in-improving-the-quality-of-my-lead-generation efforts\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">How can Akismet help in improving the quality of my lead generation&nbsp;efforts?</h3>\n\n<p>A big part of lead generation is online form submissions. And this is where you run into the annoying problem of bots and scammers filling out your forms. To prevent this, many companies turn to CAPTCHA and other visual puzzles to verify people are humans. But this just passes on the annoyance to your leads. Making them solve puzzles doesn’t set them up to be converted into&nbsp;customers.</p>\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://akismet.com/features/\">Akismet helps improve lead generation</a> by securing your forms from scammers without forcing your leads to slog through silly puzzles they can’t read and can barely see just to get a hold of your lead magnet or sign up for your free demo or consultation.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>No puzzles. No roadblocks. And, no spammers. Your forms just work, and it all happens in the background so no one even knows it’s a thing.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h3 id=\"what-types-of-companies-generally-use akismet\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What types of companies generally use&nbsp;Akismet?</h3>\n\n\n<p>Over 100 million websites currently use Akismet, including<a href=\"https://akismet.com/enterprise/\"> enterprise clients</a> such as Microsoft, Bluehost, and ConvertKit.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://akismet.com/blog/convertkit-customerstory/\">Here’s more about ConvertKit’s experience</a> with&nbsp;Akismet.</p>\n\n<h3 id=\"where-can-i-learn-more-about-integrating-akismet-with-my-marketing efforts\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Where can I learn more about integrating Akismet with my marketing&nbsp;efforts?</h3>\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://akismet.com/features/\">Find out more</a> about how Akismet works in the background to create a zero-friction web form experience for your leads.&nbsp;</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 04 Sep 2024 13:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Jen Swisher\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:28;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"WPTavern: WordPress Training Team Seeks Ideas to Attract New Learners\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=160887\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-training-team-seeks-ideas-to-attract-new-learners\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1991:\"<p>The WordPress Training Team is <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2024/08/28/drawing-new-learners-to-the-new-learn-wordpress-org/\">currently seeking ideas and feedback</a> from the community to prioritize activities that will increase engagement with the newly <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2024/08/02/meet-the-new-learn-wordpress/\">revamped Learn WordPress platform</a> and attract new learners.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Automattic-sponsored Kathryn Presner stated, “We want to have a steady flow of new learners discovering the site and taking advantage of the valuable resources it offers.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>She has outlined three types of potential activities that the Training Team is considering &#8211;  expanding marketing initiatives, increasing the Training Team’s visibility at WordCamps, and equipping learners and contributors with resources to promote Learn WordPress. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Community members can go through the list of planned promotional activities, workshops, and events in <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2024/08/28/drawing-new-learners-to-the-new-learn-wordpress-org/\">Kathryn’s post</a>. They can also <strong>share feedback and suggest new activities by September 10, 2024. </strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Home to high-quality educational resources, <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn WordPress</a>, was <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/learn-wordpress-platform-launches-with-free-courses-workshops-and-lesson-plans\">launched</a> in 2020 and received a revamp very recently. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Lately, various WordPress teams have been exploring ways to attract new members to the WP ecosystem. Just last month, the Community Team proposed <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/new-proposal-to-update-wordcamp-budget-guidelines-to-attract-new-attendees\">updating WordCamp budget guidelines</a> to draw in new attendees. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>These initiatives are encouraging especially when there have been talks of the WordPress market stagnating.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 18:22:32 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:29;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"Gravatar: Digital Identity Insights for IT Professionals\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=1854\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:64:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/08/17/digital-identity-platforms/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:26276:\"<p>As businesses continue to digitize their operations, the need for robust digital identity systems has become more pressing than ever. These systems play a critical role in ensuring the security and compliance of IT environments by managing and securing user identities, protecting sensitive data, and maintaining operational efficiency.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, implementing and managing digital identity systems is no easy feat. Poor digital identity management can expose organizations to a wide range of risks, including data breaches, unauthorized access, and compliance violations. These risks can have severe consequences, ranging from financial losses to reputational damage.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To help IT professionals navigate this complex landscape, we&#8217;ve put together a comprehensive guide on digital identity systems. We’ll explain the definition and importance of digital identity systems, along with their key components and benefits. We&#8217;ll also compare leading platforms like Gravatar, Microsoft Entra ID, Okta, and OneLogin, examining their features and integration capabilities. Additionally, we&#8217;ll discuss regulatory challenges and technological advancements shaping the future of digital identity management.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>What is a digital identity platform?</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>A digital identity platform is a system designed to manage and <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/02/21/securing-cyber-space-role-of-digital-identity-verification/\">verify digital identities</a> within an organization. It plays a vital role in ensuring that the right individuals have access to the right resources at the right times, which maintains security and operational efficiency. These platforms help authenticate users, manage their access permissions, and track their activities to prevent unauthorized access and data breaches.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Digital identity systems are essential in modern IT environments due to the growing need for strict security measures and efficient identity management. With the rise of online security threats and the increasing complexity of regulatory requirements, these systems help organizations stay compliant and secure.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>While digital identity systems are designed to mitigate risks, they can potentially introduce new challenges if not implemented and managed properly. Improper configuration, weak security measures, or lack of regular updates can create vulnerabilities that malicious actors may exploit. However, these risks are not inherent to the systems themselves but rather stem from how they are deployed and maintained within an organization.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To understand how to effectively implement and manage digital identity systems while minimizing potential risks, it&#8217;s essential to start with a strong foundation. This includes understanding the structure of digital identity systems, their key components, and how they interact with each other.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s begin by exploring these fundamental aspects of digital identity management.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Key components of an effective digital identity system&nbsp;</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Identity verification</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/02/21/securing-cyber-space-role-of-digital-identity-verification/\">Identity verification</a> is at the core of any digital identity system. It ensures users are who they claim to be and keeps data safe against unauthorized access. Common methods include Multi-Factor Authentication (MFA), which adds an extra layer of security by requiring users to provide two or more verification factors. For instance, after entering a password, users might also need to enter a code sent to their phone.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Another method is the <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/09/single-sign-on-solutions/\">Single Sign-On (SSO)</a>, which simplifies the login process by allowing users to access multiple applications with one set of credentials. When you combine that with a <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/04/26/revamping-user-authentication-the-role-of-passkeys/\">powerful passkey integration</a>, it significantly reduces password fatigue and improves security.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Finally, we have Know-Your-Customer (KYC) processes, which are often used in financial services to verify identities through documentation and background checks, ensuring compliance with regulations.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Role-based access control (RBAC)</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>As the name suggests, role-based access control assigns permissions based on the different roles or job positions within an organization. This means employees have access only to the information and systems necessary for their jobs. For example, a marketing manager might have access to the company’s social media accounts but not the financial records.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A strategy like this comes with many benefits:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Minimizes the risk of unauthorized access by restricting users to predefined roles.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Makes it easier to manage permissions and enforce security policies.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Improves operational efficiency by streamlining access management.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Ensures that new employees quickly gain the necessary access without compromising security.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Removes information clutter allowing users to access only the information they need.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Lifecycle management</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Lifecycle management involves overseeing user identities from onboarding to offboarding. This includes creating accounts, assigning roles, configuring permissions, and eventually deactivating accounts when people leave the organization. Effective lifecycle management ensures that user profiles are always up-to-date and secure.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For instance, when employees change departments, their access permissions should be adjusted accordingly. This process prevents security gaps arising from outdated or incorrect access rights, reducing the risk of insider threats.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Auditing and compliance</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Auditing and compliance are crucial for monitoring user activities, tracking resource access, and ensuring adherence to security policies and regulations. Regular audits help identify suspicious behavior, such as unusual login times or access patterns, allowing organizations to respond swiftly to potential threats.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Compliance features ensure that the organization maintains detailed logs of user activities and access controls in order to meet regulatory requirements, such as:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://gdpr-info.eu/\" rel=\"nofollow\">The General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR)</a> in the European Union</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/index.html\" rel=\"nofollow\">The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa\" rel=\"nofollow\">The California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>And many more!&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Make sure you research the relevant regulations of your specific region and country or use a platform that strictly follows them.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Comparing top digital identity platforms</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Gravatar</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"1473\" height=\"918\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gravatar-profiles-as-a-service.png\" alt=\"Gravatar homepage\" class=\"wp-image-1856\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a>, short for Globally Recognized Avatar, is an online identity platform that links users&#8217; profiles to their email addresses, making it easier to maintain a consistent digital identity across various platforms. Major services like <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\">WordPress</a>, <a href=\"https://github.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">GitHub</a>, <a href=\"https://slack.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Slack</a>, and <a href=\"https://openai.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">OpenAI</a> use Gravatar to streamline the user experience and ensure that individuals have the same avatar and profile information wherever they go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>One of Gravatar&#8217;s primary functions is to simplify the process of maintaining a consistent digital identity. By linking profiles to email addresses, it allows users to create a single profile that can be used across multiple sites. For example, an employee can create a Gravatar profile linked to their work email, creating an internal database that helps the organization keep track of its entire workforce. This consistent identity helps in fostering a sense of community and professionalism within the company.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/api/profiles/tutorial-user-profile/\">Developers can easily integrate Gravatar</a> with their company website or employee portal. They can pull in avatars and profile information directly from Gravatar, ensuring that the internal system always has up-to-date information about each employee. This integration can be done <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/03/profiles-as-a-service/\">through the Gravatar API</a>, which allows for seamless importing of profile details. Such integration helps employees get to know each other better, promoting stronger connections and professional relationships within the organization.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar also prioritizes user privacy and control over personal data. Users have the ability to manage the visibility of their information, deciding what is public and what remains private. Companies benefit from this setup because they don&#8217;t need to store any user data – Gravatar handles all of it. This reduces the risk of data breaches and simplifies data management for IT departments.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar benefits various user groups, particularly IT departments and internal business organizations. IT departments appreciate the ease of integration and the reduction in data management workload. Business organizations benefit from the enhanced sense of community and improved internal communication that comes with a consistent and easily recognizable digital identity for all employees.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar is free for users and developers, making it the most cost-effective solution on our list. Just make sure your employees or users know where they need to go to update their Gravatar profiles!</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Okta</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"1424\" height=\"692\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/okta-homepage.png\" alt=\"Okta homepage\" class=\"wp-image-1857\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.okta.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Okta</a> is a leading digital identity platform known for its comprehensive identity governance and lifecycle management services. Its workforce service is called the Okta Workforce Identity Cloud, and it helps organizations manage and secure user access across various applications and systems.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Its main features include:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>A user-friendly interface</strong> and features to streamline the identity management process.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/09/single-sign-on-solutions/\">Single sign-on (SSO)</a> and self-service password reset options </strong>that<strong> </strong>enhance the user experience and reduce the IT support burden.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Security features</strong> include multi-factor authentication, conditional access, phishing resistance, and advanced threat detection.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Easy integration with a wide range of applications, systems, and cloud services</strong>. Examples include Microsoft Azure, AWS, and Salesforce.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Lifecycle management systems </strong>to help IT professionals automate changes to user profiles, assignments, and more. This includes creating groups of employees and assigning rules depending on their workflow and needs.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Okta is highly scalable, supporting businesses of all sizes and industries. However, it doesn’t offer a single service but different products you can choose to combine however you see fit. For example, SSO is a separate service and costs $2 per user/month, while the lifecycle management is $4 per user/month.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>OneLogin</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"306\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/onelogin-homepage.png?w=660\" alt=\"OneLogin homepage\" class=\"wp-image-1858\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.onelogin.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">OneLogin</a> focuses on providing a user-friendly and scalable digital identity platform. It aims to simplify identity management for both users and administrators. Its main features include:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>An intuitive interface</strong> that makes it easy for users to manage their identities.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>OneLogin Desktop and Access </strong>for a passwordless environment and unified access across apps.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Strong security measures to protect user identities and data</strong>. These include MFA, SSO, and context-aware adaptive authentication.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Integration with a wide range of applications and systems</strong>, such as <a href=\"https://www.office.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Microsoft Office 365</a>, <a href=\"https://workspace.google.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">G Suite</a>, and <a href=\"https://aws.amazon.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">AWS</a>.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Synchronization with advanced directories </strong>like <a href=\"https://www.workday.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Workday</a>, <a href=\"https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/identity/ad-ds/get-started/virtual-dc/active-directory-domain-services-overview\" rel=\"nofollow\">Active Directory</a>, and <a href=\"https://ldap.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Lightweight Directory Access Protocol (LDAP)</a>.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>OneLogin is designed to scale with the needs of businesses of all sizes, and similar to Okta, the majority of its solutions are priced per user/per month. For example, SSO, MFA, and Advanced Directory are all $2 per month per user, while the identity lifecycle management service is $4 per month per user.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Microsoft Entra ID</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"305\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/microsoft-entra-id-homepage.png?w=660\" alt=\"Microsoft Entra ID homepage\" class=\"wp-image-1859\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/business/identity-access/microsoft-entra-id\" rel=\"nofollow\">Microsoft Entra ID</a> (previously known as Azure Active Directory) is a modern cloud identity and access service developed by Microsoft. It has a free version and 30-day trials for its paid tiers.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Its main features include:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Different </strong><a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/04/authentication-protocols/\"><strong>authentication methods</strong></a> such as SSO, SAML, <a href=\"https://oauth.net/2/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">oAuth 2.0</a>, and federated authentication.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Administration and hybrid identity features</strong> like user and group management, role-based access control, cloud monitoring and analytics, and delegated administration built-in roles.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Identity protection and security features </strong>for the higher plans, including risk-based conditional access, authentication context, token protection, and risk event investigation.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Reporting capabilities</strong> like basic usage and security reports and Security Information and Events Management (SIEM) connectivity.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Microsoft Entra ID has three main pricing tiers allowing you to scale as needed, starting from $6 per user/month up to $9 per user/month.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Comparing the top four digital identity platforms</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<table class=\"has-contrast-background-color has-background has-fixed-layout\"><tbody><tr><td></td><td><strong>Gravatar</strong></td><td><strong>Okta</strong></td><td><strong>OneLogin</strong></td><td><strong>Microsoft Entra ID</strong></td></tr><tr><td><strong>Usability&nbsp;</strong></td><td>Simplifies consistent digital identity across platforms. Easy to set up and use. Minimal daily management required.&nbsp;</td><td>User-friendly interface, SSO, and self-service password reset. Reduces IT support burden.</td><td>Intuitive interface and passwordless environment with OneLogin Desktop and Access. Easy for users and admins.</td><td>Simple setup with various authentication methods, user and group management, and delegated administration roles.&nbsp;</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Security</strong></td><td>Prioritizes user privacy and data control. No storage of user data on company servers for easy compliance with major regulations.&nbsp;</td><td>MFA, conditional access, and advanced threat detection. Compliance with standards like SOC 2, GDPR, ISO 27001.</td><td>MFA, SSO, and context-aware adaptive authentication.&nbsp;</td><td>SSO, MFA, risk-based conditional access, and advanced security features in higher plans.&nbsp;</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Scalability&nbsp;</strong></td><td>Ideal for businesses of all sizes. Benefits IT departments and business organizations.&nbsp;</td><td>Highly scalable, suitable for any business size.&nbsp; Modular services (SSO, lifecycle management)</td><td>Scales with businesses of all sizes. Modular pricing per user/month.&nbsp;</td><td>Three main pricing tiers that scale with business needs.&nbsp;</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Integrations</strong></td><td>Can be integrated with any system or application through the Gravatar REST API. Used in apps like WordPress, GitHub, Slack, and OpenAI.&nbsp;</td><td>Integrates with Microsoft Azure, AWS, and Salesforce. Wide range of application integrations</td><td>Integrates with Microsoft Office 365, G Suite, AWS, Workday, Active Directory, and LDAP.&nbsp;</td><td>SSO, SAML, oAuth 2.0, and federated authentication.&nbsp; Connects with various Microsoft services and third-party apps.</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Best for</strong></td><td>Best for organizations seeking simple, consistent identity management.</td><td>Ideal for businesses needing strong security and integration capabilities.</td><td>Suitable for businesses looking for an easy-to-use, secure identity management solution.</td><td>Perfect for organizations heavily using Microsoft products and needing scalable security.</td></tr></tbody></table>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Regulatory challenges in digital identity management</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Managing digital identities comes with a host of regulatory challenges that IT professionals must navigate to ensure compliance and security, but with the right knowledge and approach, you can tackle these issues effectively.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Compliance with global data privacy regulations</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Major regulations like <a href=\"https://gdpr-info.eu/\" rel=\"nofollow\">GDPR</a> in Europe and <a href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa\" rel=\"nofollow\">CCPA</a> in the US place a lot of heavy requirements on digital identity management systems. These regulations demand impeccable data protection, explicit user consent, and transparency in data handling. For instance, GDPR requires organizations to ensure that personal data is processed lawfully, collected for specified purposes, and kept secure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Organizations should implement high-quality identity management systems that enforce strict data protection measures to ensure compliance. It’s also recommended that you perform regular audits to identify areas for improvement and educate employees about data privacy policies and best practices.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Complexities of decentralized identity systems</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/07/30/decentralized-identity-management/\">Decentralized identity</a> systems, including blockchain-based solutions, offer promising advantages but also bring regulatory challenges. These systems distribute identity management across multiple nodes, reducing reliance on a central authority. However, the lack of standardization and evolving legal frameworks pose significant hurdles.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To stay compliant while adopting decentralized technologies, businesses should do the following:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Collaborate with regulatory bodies to stay updated on legal requirements.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Adopt best practices such as transparent data usage policies and participating in industry standardization efforts.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Work with experts in blockchain and decentralized systems to ensure that implementations meet regulatory standards.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Interoperability across digital identity systems</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Interoperability is super important but equally hard to achieve, especially while trying to maintain security and compliance. Different systems often use varied standards and protocols, making integration more difficult.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Thankfully, standards like SAML, <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/10/oauth-2-0-simplified-unraveling-authorization-protocols/\">OAuth</a>, and <a href=\"https://auth0.com/docs/authenticate/protocols/openid-connect-protocol\" rel=\"nofollow\">OpenID Connect</a> solve this issue by providing common frameworks for authentication and authorization. By adopting these standards, organizations can ensure their systems work well with others while maintaining security. Regular testing and updates are necessary to keep systems interoperable and secure.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Combating identity fraud and cyberattacks</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>One of the risks of running any type of organization is constantly battling security threats like phishing, credential stuffing, and social engineering attacks. And when you’re trying to protect the digital identities of your workforce, you need to take more advanced security measures.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Implementing multi-factor authentication (MFA) is a common choice, as it adds an extra layer of security beyond passwords. Biometric verification and behavioral analytics can further enhance security by ensuring that the person accessing the system is indeed the authorized user. Naturally, you need to perform regular security assessments and updates to security protocols to stay ahead of potential threats.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>How Gravatar solves compliance and security concerns</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar&#8217;s privacy-forward approach helps organizations comply with data privacy regulations without even thinking about it. It does that by ensuring that no user data is stored on company servers and that users can control their data visibility, enhancing privacy and security.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Besides that, <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/api/profiles/rest-api/\">Gravatar&#8217;s easy integration via API</a> ensures complete interoperability with existing systems. This means organizations can maintain a consistent digital identity across platforms without complicating their IT infrastructure or adding new software.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>By offering consistent digital identity verification, Gravatar enhances security and reduces the risks associated with identity fraud.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>AI and machine learning for identity verification</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>As with any other industry, AI and machine learning are transforming digital identity verification, making processes more efficient and user-friendly. These technologies reduce friction by automating complex tasks and providing real-time, accurate verifications.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For example, there are now advanced techniques like liveness detection and knowledge-based authentication powered by AI/ML to enhance security and user experience.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Liveness detection</strong> ensures a user is physically present during the verification process, preventing spoofing attempts. For example, facial recognition systems can now detect subtle movements to confirm a live user rather than a static image.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Knowledge-based authentication</strong> uses AI to analyze user behavior and answer patterns, more accurately identifying potential fraud.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar’s API can be integrated with AI/ML-based verification methods, simplifying the process for developers. By pulling user data through Gravatar and combining it with AI-powered verification, businesses can create a user-friendly and secure identity management system. This integration provides all users with consistent, reliable identity verification across platforms, reducing the need for repetitive authentication steps.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Improve your digital identity strategy with advanced solutions</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Managing digital identities effectively requires navigating a complex regulatory landscape and staying vigilant against security threats. Solutions like Gravatar can help address these challenges by providing strong, privacy-centric, and easily integrable identity management options.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Most of all, Gravatar helps users maintain a consistent digital identity across various platforms, offering a privacy-forward approach that lets users control the visibility of their information. Its easy integration into applications ensures that user experience is enhanced without compromising on privacy standards.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, if you’re a developer looking to integrate Gravatar as a digital identity management solution, <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/api/profiles/rest-api/\">try out the new REST API</a> for yourself!&nbsp;</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 16:00:04 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:30;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:76:\"Gravatar: Exploring FIDO Passkeys: A Closer Look at Future of Authentication\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=1722\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:50:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/08/15/fido-passkey/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13014:\"<p>Online security is an industry that moves with the speed of light, and FIDO passkeys represent one of the biggest moves ever made – going from traditional password-based authentication methods to a passwordless life.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this article, we’ll examine FIDO passkeys in more detail, illustrating how they enhance security and streamline the sign-in process for users across various devices and platforms.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>By exploring the mechanics behind passkeys, their advantages, and practical applications, you&#8217;ll gain a better understanding of this innovative technology. Whether you&#8217;re an IT professional, a developer, or a tech enthusiast, join us in discovering how FIDO passkeys are shaping the future of secure online authentication.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What is FIDO? </h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Developed by the <a href=\"https://fidoalliance.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\">FIDO Alliance</a>, Fast Identity Online (FIDO) represents a groundbreaking initiative aimed at redefining online security. It’s a set of security specifications that significantly reduce our reliance on passwords, introducing a more secure and <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/04/26/revamping-user-authentication-the-role-of-passkeys/\">user-friendly method of authentication</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>At the heart of FIDO&#8217;s approach is the concept of local authentication. Instead of sending your password across the internet where it could be intercepted, FIDO performs the authentication on your device. This method is much more secure and enhances privacy by ensuring your unique credentials never leave your device.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>By leveraging cryptographic keys, FIDO allows users to prove their identity online without revealing sensitive information. This innovative approach makes it much harder for hackers to gain unauthorized access to accounts, as they can&#8217;t simply steal a password. Instead, they would need physical access to the user&#8217;s device, a significantly higher barrier to breach.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How FIDO passkeys revolutionize user security with public key cryptography</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>FIDO passkeys’ architecture is built around a pair of cryptographic keys: a public key stored on the service provider’s server, and a private key securely kept on the user’s device. This design ensures that authentication happens locally, making it significantly more secure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here is how it works:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Registration:</strong> To start using a FIDO passkey, users first need to access the service they want to use it with. This typically involves verifying your identity through an existing method (like a password or an email link) and then initiating the passkey creation. Users begin by registering with a service, where their device creates a new pair of cryptographic keys.</p>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"2288\" height=\"1145\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/registration-process-iag.png\" alt=\"Registration process with FIDO passkeys\" class=\"wp-image-1723\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Storing: </strong>The public key is safely stored on the service’s server, while the private key remains secured on the device. The server associates the public key with your account. Your device is now “bound” to your account using this passkey.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Authentication:</strong> When users want to log in, the service will ask for the passkey by sending a challenge to their device. Sometimes (depending on the configuration), the users will need to verify their identity to unlock the private key stored on their device to sign the challenge. Successful decryption and response to the challenge verify the user’s identity without transmitting any secret information or the private key itself.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"2289\" height=\"1458\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/sign-in_iag.png\" alt=\"Sign-in process with FIDO passkeys\" class=\"wp-image-1726\" />\n\n\n\n<p>There are many advantages to FIDO Passkeys:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Enhanced security: </strong>By verifying the user locally, FIDO keeps users and devices safe against phishing, brute force attacks, and other cyber threats.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>User convenience: </strong>Simplifies the login process for users, eliminating the need to remember and manage complex passwords.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Heightened user trust:</strong> Increases confidence in the platform’s security.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Reduction in data breaches: </strong>Minimizes risks associated with password theft.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Cost savings: </strong>Lowers the financial impact related to security breaches and <a href=\"https://www.keepersecurity.com/en_GB/resources/cost-of-a-helpdesk-password-reset/\" rel=\"nofollow\">password resets</a>, which can add up to thousands or millions of dollars per year, depending on the size of the organization.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Universal compatibility: </strong>FIDO passkeys can be integrated into a wide range of devices and platforms, allowing users to enjoy advanced security without the need for additional hardware.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Scalability and versatility: </strong>FIDO passkeys are adaptable, capable of being deployed across numerous industries, such as finance and e-commerce, and compatible with various platforms, including web and mobile applications.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Here is how FIDO Passkeys compare to traditional authentication methods:</p>\n\n\n\n<table class=\"has-fixed-layout\"><tbody><tr><td class=\"has-text-align-center\"><strong>Feature</strong></td><td class=\"has-text-align-center\"><strong>FIDO Passkeys</strong></td><td class=\"has-text-align-center\"><strong>Traditional Authentication</strong></td></tr><tr><td class=\"has-text-align-center\"><strong>Authentication Method</strong></td><td class=\"has-text-align-center\">Two-factor, biometric verification</td><td class=\"has-text-align-center\">Password-based</td></tr><tr><td class=\"has-text-align-center\"><strong>Security Level</strong></td><td class=\"has-text-align-center\">High, due to local authentication</td><td class=\"has-text-align-center\">Lower, prone to breaches</td></tr><tr><td class=\"has-text-align-center\"><strong>User Convenience</strong></td><td class=\"has-text-align-center\">High, no passwords needed</td><td class=\"has-text-align-center\">Low, due to the necessity of password management</td></tr></tbody></table>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>The role of WebAuthn and CTAP in enabling FIDO passkeys</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The Web Authentication (WebAuthn) and Client To Authenticator Protocol (CTAP) standards are what help platforms and services adopt FIDO passkeys in their systems. These protocols work together to ensure a user-friendly and secure authentication experience across various devices and platforms.</p>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>WebAuthn at a glance</strong></h4>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://webauthn.io/\" rel=\"nofollow\">WebAuthn</a> defines an API for creating and using strong authentication credentials on the web. It enables users to log in via biometrics, mobile devices, or FIDO security keys, enhancing the security of online interactions.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WebAuthn is designed to work alongside traditional passwords, offering a layer of multi-factor authentication (MFA) that significantly boosts security without compromising convenience.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Major browsers like <a href=\"https://www.google.com/chrome/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Google Chrome</a>, <a href=\"https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Mozilla Firefox</a>, and <a href=\"https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/edge\" rel=\"nofollow\">Microsoft Edge</a> have embraced WebAuthn, signaling its growing acceptance as the standard for web authentication.</p>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>CTAP: Bridging devices and authenticators</strong></h4>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://fidoalliance.org/specs/fido-v2.2-rd-20230321/fido-client-to-authenticator-protocol-v2.2-rd-20230321.html\" rel=\"nofollow\">CTAP</a> complements WebAuthn by adding the option to use external devices such as mobile phones or security keys as authenticators. This protocol is also very important for enabling FIDO passkeys to function across different platforms, allowing for a more integrated and secure authentication process. CTAP is particularly valuable in scenarios requiring Two-Factor Authentication (2FA), where an additional layer of security is crucial.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>CTAP is often used in high-risk sectors like banking and healthcare, where the integrity of user authentication processes is critical. In these environments, CTAP&#8217;s role in 2FA is vital, offering an extra security measure that protects sensitive data and user identities from potential threats.</p>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Ensuring compatibility: Using passkeys across devices and platforms</strong></h4>\n\n\n\n<p>FIDO passkeys seamlessly integrate with major operating systems, including <a href=\"https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows\" rel=\"nofollow\">Windows</a>, <a href=\"https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma/\" rel=\"nofollow\">macOS</a>, and <a href=\"https://www.linux.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Linux</a>, as well as mobile platforms such as <a href=\"https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-17/\" rel=\"nofollow\">iOS</a> and <a href=\"https://www.android.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Android</a>. This widespread compatibility means users can enjoy the benefits of passkeys, such as enhanced security and convenience, on virtually any device they own.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can also use FIDO passkeys on virtually any browser, including Chrome, Firefox, <a href=\"https://www.apple.com/safari/\">Safari</a>, and Edge because they fully support WebAuthn and CTAP protocols. While these browsers are committed to implementing these standards, there might be some variations in support levels, so you need to pay attention to ongoing updates and adjust as needed to ensure a smooth user experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In order to properly integrate FIDO passkeys, platforms and services need to implement the WebAuthn API and potentially adapt to the latest versions of CTAP. If you’re a developer or an IT professional, we recommend that you stay informed about these evolving standards to ensure compatibility and maximize security.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Despite the broad support for FIDO passkeys, challenges still exist, such as discrepancies in protocol implementations across different platforms or browsers. Thankfully, there is a <a href=\"https://groups.google.com/a/fidoalliance.org/g/fido-dev\" rel=\"nofollow\">very active FIDO dev community</a> that people can turn to at any point and try to resolve technical issues.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Finally, it’s worth mentioning that besides all the software, you also have hardware authenticators, like <a href=\"https://www.yubico.com/products/\" rel=\"nofollow\">YubiKeys</a>, that enhance the FIDO passkey ecosystem by providing a physical device that stores cryptographic credentials. These devices are compatible with a wide range of operating systems and platforms, offering an additional layer of security, especially in environments where mobile devices are not allowed or practical.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Gravatar: Your digital identity management companion in a passkeys world</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Are you passionate about passkeys and eager for a world where passwords no longer exist? We are too! Passkeys, including those built on FIDO standards, are a huge step forward in creating a better internet for the world.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it’s not the only step forward. If you’re looking into implementing FIDO passkeys on your website or web app, go the extra mile and build a truly robust and complete digital identity management system with <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a>.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a>, an <a href=\"https://automattic.com/\">Automattic</a> service, is a profile management system that allows people to create Gravatar profiles linked to their email addresses, which they can carry across various apps and platforms such as <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\">WordPress</a>, <a href=\"https://slack.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Slack</a>, and <a href=\"https://openai.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">OpenAI</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>With the combination of Gravatar and FIDO, you can significantly improve the onboarding process and user experience by allowing people to effortlessly sign up and sign in to your platform without the hassle of remembering multiple passwords.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The result? A quick and easy sign-up process that saves time, making it a win-win for both users and service providers!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In addition, you can use Gravatar&#8217;s API to offer personalized, secure, and privacy-preserving user experiences on your platform.&nbsp;If you want to learn more about how Gravatar can elevate your user experience and security, <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/\">check out our documentation and subscribe to our newsletter</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 16:00:04 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:31;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"Gravatar: 10 Proven Strategies for Engaging Users: App Onboarding 101\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=2111\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:52:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/09/03/app-onboarding/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:27918:\"<p>Have you ever downloaded an app only to feel lost and frustrated within the first few minutes? That&#8217;s where app onboarding comes in. It&#8217;s the digital equivalent of a warm welcome and a guided tour, all rolled into one user-friendly experience. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simply put, app onboarding is the process of introducing new users to your app&#8217;s interface, features, and benefits. A well-crafted onboarding experience can make the difference between a user who sticks around and one who hits the dreaded uninstall button. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>But here&#8217;s the kicker: <strong>effective onboarding isn&#8217;t just about showing off your app&#8217;s bells and whistles</strong>. It&#8217;s about helping users understand how your app can solve their problems or make their lives easier. Get it right, and you&#8217;ll see higher user satisfaction, increased engagement, and, ultimately, better retention rates.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this article, we share the top strategies for creating an onboarding experience that will wow your users and keep them coming back for more.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s get started!</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Why app onboarding is different from web onboarding</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re thinking, &#8220;Onboarding is onboarding, right?&#8221; – think again. Mobile app onboarding is a whole different ball game compared to its web counterpart. Here’s why:</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>User engagement and time constraints</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Mobile users are like hummingbirds – always on the move and easily distracted. They&#8217;re scrolling through apps while waiting for coffee, during commutes, or in between Netflix episodes. This means you&#8217;ve got a smaller window to capture and keep their attention.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>With web onboarding, users might be willing to sit through a longer introduction. But for mobile? <a href=\"https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-36256-4\" rel=\"nofollow\">Research shows</a> that you need to be quick, concise, and to the point. It&#8217;s all about delivering maximum value in minimum time.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Technical constraints and opportunities</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Mobile devices come with their own set of challenges and perks. Smaller screens mean you need to be smart about how you present information. Every pixel counts!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it&#8217;s not all limitations. Mobile apps can tap into device-specific features like push notifications, geolocation, and camera access. These can be powerful tools for creating a more immersive and personalized onboarding experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Consistency across platforms</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Here&#8217;s where things get tricky. If your app has both mobile and web versions, you need to walk a fine line. The onboarding experience should feel consistent across platforms while still playing to the strengths of each.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Think of it as like translating a book into different languages. The core story stays the same, but you might need to tweak certain elements to make it resonate with each audience.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Top strategies for an engaging app onboarding process</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Ready to take your app onboarding from good to great? Let&#8217;s dive into some strategies that&#8217;ll have your users saying &#8220;wow&#8221; from the get-go.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>1. Choose your onboarding strategy</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>First things first – you need to pick the right onboarding strategy. You want to make a great impression, but you also want to be true to your app&#8217;s personality.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here are three popular strategies:</p>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Progressive onboarding</strong></h4>\n\n\n\n<p>This is the &#8220;show, don&#8217;t tell&#8221; of the onboarding world. Instead of bombarding users with information, you introduce features gradually as they explore the app.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Benefits:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Prevents information overload.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Allows users to learn by doing.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Keeps users engaged by revealing features at just the right moment.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Tips:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Use tooltips to guide users through features step-by-step.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Add gamification elements like progress bars to keep users motivated.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Keep instructions short and sweet – think bite-sized nuggets of info.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Function-oriented onboarding</strong></h4>\n\n\n\n<p>This strategy focuses on teaching users how to use your app&#8217;s core features right off the bat.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Benefits:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Gets users up to speed quickly on essential features.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Helps users achieve their goals faster.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Reduces the learning curve.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Tips:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Create interactive tutorials for key functions.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Use video guides or animations to show features in action.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Let users practice in a safe sandbox environment before diving in.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Benefits-oriented onboarding</strong></h4>\n\n\n\n<p>This approach is all about showing users what&#8217;s in it for them. It&#8217;s like answering the question, &#8220;Why should I care about this app?&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Benefits:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Helps users understand your app&#8217;s unique value proposition.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Motivates users by showing them what they can achieve.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Increases retention by aligning your app&#8217;s value with user needs.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Tips:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Use welcome screens to showcase key benefits.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Include user testimonials or success stories.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Personalize content to highlight features that align with user goals.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>2. Include key onboarding elements</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Now that you&#8217;ve chosen your strategy let&#8217;s talk about the essential elements of a killer onboarding process.</p>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Sign-up page</strong></h4>\n\n\n\n<p>This is your app&#8217;s front door. Make it welcoming and easy to walk through, focusing on clear instructions and encouraging users to finish the process.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Keep it simple – ask for only essential information.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Consider offering social media login options.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Make it visually appealing with a clean design and clear call-to-action buttons.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Welcome screen</strong></h4>\n\n\n\n<p>This is your app&#8217;s first impression so make sure it’s inviting, informative, and it includes a brief overview of the app&#8217;s benefits and features.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Use a friendly, welcoming tone.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Highlight key benefits and features.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Personalize the message if possible (e.g., &#8220;Hi Sarah, welcome to [App Name]!&#8221;).</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Interactive walkthrough</strong></h4>\n\n\n\n<p>In this section, you need to guide users through your app&#8217;s features in a way that&#8217;s engaging and educational. You can even make it into a game-like experience.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Break complex features into simple, digestible steps.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Use tooltips, pop-ups, and animations to guide users.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Make it interactive – let users try features as they learn about them.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Feature guidance</strong></h4>\n\n\n\n<p>Help users understand and use your app&#8217;s core features effectively. The faster they get to this point, the more they will get out of using your app.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Use tooltips to provide contextual help.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Offer short, focused tutorials for key features.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Provide on-demand help that users can access when they need it.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Self-serve support</strong></h4>\n\n\n\n<p>Empower users to find answers on their own.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Create a comprehensive knowledge base with articles, FAQs, and video tutorials that users can access anytime.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Make sure your help section is searchable and includes logical categories so it’s easy to navigate.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Consider adding a community forum where users can help each other.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Strike a balance: </strong>You want to provide enough guidance to help users get started but not so much that they feel overwhelmed or hand-held. It&#8217;s all about empowering your users to explore and discover the value of your app on their own terms.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>3. Adapt the onboarding process length to your users</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>When it comes to app onboarding, there are conflicting opinions about whether it’s a better idea to keep it short and sweet or not. While most people seem to be rushing to get to that “first value”, some experiments show that longer onboarding processes <a href=\"https://www.innertrends.com/blog/onboarding-is-it-a-good-idea-to-get-to-first-value-a-s-a-p\" rel=\"nofollow\">lead to higher conversion and retention rates</a>.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I personally think that just like anything else, a balanced approach is needed – it all comes down to context. Think about your target audience and tailor the process to their requirements. For example, if you have a music app, like <a href=\"https://open.spotify.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify</a>, the user’s main goal is to just listen to music, so a lengthy onboarding process doesn’t really make sense. You can add a step where they can select their favorite genres and artists, but beyond that, you’re just making it hard for them to start using your app as intended.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>On the other hand, if you have a fitness app that offers personalized workouts, you’ll probably need a lot more information from your users such as their fitness goals, current weight and possibilities, exercises they can’t or don’t want to do, number of sessions per week, whether they live in an apartment and need to be quiet or they go to the gym and have access to a lot of equipment, etc.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Whatever your case is, there are some universal rules that help make the onboarding uncluttered, which should be the goal.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Minimize the number of steps:</strong> Think &#8220;need to know&#8221; vs &#8220;nice to know.&#8221;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Use progressive disclosure:</strong> Reveal features gradually as users need them.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Make non-essential steps skippable: </strong>Let users decide what they want to learn.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>How Gravatar integration helps reduce sign-up times</strong></h4>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"1473\" height=\"918\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/gravatar-profiles-as-a-service-1.png\" alt=\"Gravatar – Profiles as a Service\" class=\"wp-image-2114\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a>, short for Globally Recognized Avatar, is a tool that allows people to create consistent <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/02/21/securing-cyber-space-role-of-digital-identity-verification/\">digital identities</a> with the same profile picture and basic information across multiple platforms, all linked to their email addresses.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>As an app developer, you can <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/03/profiles-as-a-service/\">use the Gravatar REST API</a> to create a <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/08/16/user-experience-personalization/\">personalized experience</a> for each user. This means that users can quickly sign up using their existing Gravatar profile, which automatically populates their profile picture and basic info. No more tedious form-filling!</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>4. Collect user data at initial stages</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Collecting user data early on helps you tailor the experience to their preferences and needs, and when you do that, you can enjoy:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Personalization through customized content and recommendations</strong>, making your app more relevant to each user.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Improved retention</strong> because personalized experiences can lead to higher user satisfaction and retention rates.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Efficiency in operations</strong> thanks to early data collection, making your app more intuitive and user-friendly.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>But here&#8217;s the catch – you need to strike a balance between collecting necessary information and not overwhelming the user. It&#8217;s like asking for someone&#8217;s life story on a first date – it&#8217;s too much, too soon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is also where you can use the Gravatar integration to its full potential. Users can import their name, email, and profile picture from their Gravatar account with just a click because the API will pull this verified information directly from the user&#8217;s profile. This method significantly reduces the risk of errors and friction, so you can increase completion rates and improve user engagement.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Finally, it’s a great way of preventing fake accounts – users are more likely to use their real identities when importing existing profile information.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>5. Create skippable elements</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Apps in similar niches tend to look and work in familiar ways (project management apps, for example), so if your users are more knowledgeable, they probably won’t need to go through the entire process similar to a complete beginner. This is why it’s always a good idea to add a skip button during the different stages and allow users to control the process based on their preferences.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This tactic:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Respects your users’ time:</strong> Some users might already be familiar with similar apps and don&#8217;t need a full tutorial.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Avoids redundancy:</strong> Forcing people through unnecessary steps can lead to frustration and abandonment.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Empowers users: </strong>Having control over the learning process can increase engagement and satisfaction.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Pro tip: </strong>Always provide a clear and visible option to skip onboarding steps.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>6. Utilize a progress bar</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Progress bars are the best way to give users a sense of how far they&#8217;ve come and how much is left to go.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They bring:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Visual representation: </strong>They provide a clear visual of the onboarding process, helping users understand their progress.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Psychological benefits: </strong>They create a sense of accomplishment and reduce anxiety, which can increase user engagement and completion rates.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Set expectations: </strong>By showing the number of steps involved, progress bars help users know what to expect from the onboarding process.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Fun fact:</strong> A <a href=\"https://www.nngroup.com/articles/progress-indicators/\" rel=\"nofollow\">study by the Nielsen Norman Group</a> showed that progress bars can significantly improve user engagement. It&#8217;s like the difference between running a marathon with or without mile markers – knowing how far you&#8217;ve come can be a powerful motivator.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>7. Utilize onboarding checklists</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Checklists aren&#8217;t just for grocery shopping or packing for vacation. For app onboarding, they&#8217;re a powerful tool to ensure users complete essential steps and get the most out of your app.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here&#8217;s why checklists rock:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Track progress: </strong>They help users keep track of what they&#8217;ve done and what&#8217;s left to do.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Provide structure:</strong> Checklists break down the onboarding process into manageable steps.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Psychological benefits: </strong>There&#8217;s something satisfying about checking off items on a list. It provides a sense of accomplishment and can motivate users to complete the onboarding process.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Think of onboarding checklists as a gentle guide, not a strict rulebook. They should help users navigate your app, not make them feel like they&#8217;re taking a test.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>8. Use push notifications strategically</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>When used correctly, push notifications can guide, motivate, and engage users throughout their onboarding journey and beyond. But beware: <strong>poorly timed or irrelevant notifications can put users off and even lead them to uninstall.</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here&#8217;s how to make push notifications work for you with some fictional examples from famous apps:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Welcome messages: </strong>Start on the right foot with a warm greeting. A language learning app might send something like: &#8220;<em>Bienvenue! Ready to start your French adventure?</em>&#8220;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Event-triggered notifications:</strong> Respond to users&#8217; real-time behavior to keep them engaged. If you have a sports app, you can encourage users who have been active throughout the day and maybe offer them some stretching exercises.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Onboarding completion reminders:</strong> Gently nudge users to finish setting up their profiles. For example, LinkedIn often sends notifications like &#8220;<em>Your profile is 70% complete. Add your skills to stand out to recruiters!</em>&#8220;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Milestone celebrations:</strong> Acknowledge user progress to boost motivation. Duolingo is very famous just for that and gives its users all sorts of milestones to celebrate, such as learning streaks.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"384\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/duolingo-streak.png?w=660\" alt=\"Duolingo 1-day streak milestone\" class=\"wp-image-2115\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Personalized tips:</strong> Offer advice based on user behavior. A meditation app might notice a lot of phone activity in times when the device would usually be turned off and send a message saying: &#8220;<em>Having trouble sleeping? Try our new &#8216;Deep Sleep&#8217; story tonight at 10 PM.</em>&#8220;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Lastly, always give users control over their notification settings. Nothing turns people off faster than feeling bombarded with messages they can&#8217;t opt out of. Respect their preferences, and they&#8217;re more likely to stay engaged with your app in the long run.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>9. Employ regular user testing</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Last but definitely not least, don&#8217;t forget about user testing. It&#8217;s like having a focus group for your app, helping you identify pain points and optimize the onboarding flow.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here&#8217;s why user testing is so important:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Identify issues:</strong> It helps you spot problems in the onboarding process that you might have overlooked.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Gather feedback: </strong>Get actionable insights directly from your target users.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Continuous improvement: </strong>Regular testing allows you to refine and enhance the onboarding experience over time.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>There are different ways to conduct user testing:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Moderated testing:</strong> Watch users interact with your app in real time and ask questions.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Unmoderated testing:</strong> Users complete tasks on their own and provide feedback.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>A/B testing:</strong> Compare different versions of your onboarding process to see which performs better.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Beta testing: </strong>Release your app to a small group of users before the official launch to gather feedback.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Remember, user testing isn&#8217;t a one-and-done deal. It&#8217;s an ongoing process that helps you keep your onboarding experience fresh, relevant, and effective.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Examples of apps with great onboarding flows</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s take a look at some apps that have nailed the onboarding process.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Duolingo</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"394\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/duolingo-homepage.png?w=660\" alt=\"Duolingo homepage\" class=\"wp-image-2116\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.duolingo.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Duolingo</a>, the popular language learning app, has mastered the art of engaging onboarding.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Fun and engaging:</strong> Duolingo turns the necessary information gathering into a fun, game-like experience. It doesn&#8217;t feel like a chore – it feels like the start of an adventure.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"371\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/duolingo-onboarding-example.png?w=660\" alt=\"Duolingo onboarding question – Choose a language \" class=\"wp-image-2127\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Gamification:</strong> The app uses elements like rewards, progress tracking, and interactive lessons to keep users motivated from the get-go.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Personalization:</strong> By asking about language proficiency and learning goals, Duolingo tailors the experience to each user&#8217;s needs (and they include a cool progress bar!).</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"407\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/duolingo-micro-survey.png?w=660\" alt=\"Duolingo questionnaire \" class=\"wp-image-2128\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Immediate value:</strong> Users start learning right away, experiencing the app&#8217;s core value proposition from the first interaction.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>TikTok</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"407\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/tiktok-homepage.png?w=660\" alt=\"TikTok homepage with a MrBeast video\" class=\"wp-image-2118\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/en/\" rel=\"nofollow\">TikTok</a>&#8216;s onboarding is all about getting users hooked on content as quickly as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Quick time-to-value:</strong> Users can start watching and swiping through videos without even signing up.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Minimal friction:</strong> TikTok delays the sign-up process until users are already engaged with the content. By then, users are more likely to complete the process because they&#8217;ve already experienced the app&#8217;s value.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Interactive and intuitive:</strong> The onboarding process is highly interactive, teaching users how to use the app through actual usage rather than explicit instructions.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>DoorDash</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"323\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/doordash-homepage.png?w=660\" alt=\"DoorDash homepage\" class=\"wp-image-2119\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.doordash.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">DoorDash</a>, the popular food delivery app, takes a unique approach to onboarding that puts user experience first.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Value-first approach:</strong> DoorDash allows users to browse restaurants and menus before requiring sign-up. This strategy lets users see the app&#8217;s value upfront, increasing the likelihood they&#8217;ll complete the registration process.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Easy onboarding:</strong> The flow is designed to be intuitive and user-friendly. Each step feels natural and necessary, reducing the chance of user drop-off.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Personalization:</strong> By collecting user preferences early on, such as favorite cuisines or dietary restrictions, DoorDash can immediately start offering personalized recommendations, enhancing the user experience from the get-go.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Bumble</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"373\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/bumble-homepage.png?w=660\" alt=\"Bumble homepage\" class=\"wp-image-2120\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://bumble.com/en-us/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Bumble</a>, the dating app where women make the first move, has created an onboarding process that&#8217;s both engaging and informative.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Interactive onboarding:</strong> Bumble uses interactive elements to guide users through profile creation, making what could be a tedious process feel more like a fun questionnaire.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Social proofing:</strong> The app cleverly uses social proof techniques, such as showing success stories, to encourage users to complete the onboarding process. It&#8217;s like saying, &#8220;<em>Look at all these people who found love – you could be next!</em>&#8220;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"321\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/bumble-social-proof.png?w=660\" alt=\"Bumble social proof on a homepage\" class=\"wp-image-2121\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Personalization:</strong> By collecting user preferences and interests early on, Bumble can start providing more relevant matches right away, increasing the chances of user satisfaction and retention.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>These examples demonstrate how effective onboarding can take many forms, but they all share common elements: <strong>they&#8217;re engaging, they provide immediate value, and they&#8217;re tailored to the user&#8217;s needs and the app&#8217;s unique features</strong>. By studying these successful onboarding flows, you can gather insights and inspiration for creating your own stellar onboarding experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Drive app success with an engaging onboarding process</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>And there you have it – your roadmap to creating an app onboarding experience that users will love. Remember, the key is to make it easy, engaging, and valuable right from the start. Your onboarding should be like a good handshake – firm, friendly, and not too long.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;ve covered a lot of ground in this article, from choosing the right onboarding strategy to leveraging tools like progress bars and checklists. But here&#8217;s a pro tip that ties it all together: <strong>consider integrating Gravatar into your onboarding process</strong>. It&#8217;s like having a universal ID for the internet, making sign-ups a breeze, and helping you collect key user data right off the bat.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar integration is easier than you might think, and it can significantly streamline your onboarding process. By allowing users to import their existing profile information, you&#8217;re not just saving them time – you&#8217;re also ensuring accuracy and consistency in user data.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ready to take your app onboarding to the next level? <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/\">Dive deeper into Gravatar integration</a> and discover how it can transform your user experience.&nbsp;</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 15:50:35 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:32;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:61:\"WordPress.org blog: WordCamp US 2024: Oregon-a See You There?\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17653\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:75:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/09/wordcamp-us-2024-oregon-a-see-you-there/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4619:\"<p><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/\">WordCamp US 2024</a> rounds out this year’s trio of flagship WordCamps. Starting September 17, open source and WordPress professionals from around the world will touch down in Portland, Oregon, for four days of learning, connecting, and collaborating.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There’s even more packed into the conference schedule this year, with the collaborative spirit of <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/contributor-day/\">Contributor Day</a> and the introduction of <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/introducing-showcase-day/\">Showcase Day</a> to kick things off.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-huge-font-size\">New this year: Showcase Day</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Showcase Day will spotlight innovative and impactful projects built on WordPress. Through a curated series of presentations, attendees will gain insights into how WordPress drives success across diverse industries, including enterprise-level implementations for clients such as <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/showcase-keynote-reach-for-the-sky-disney-experiences-magical-transformation-with-gutenberg/\">Disney Experiences</a>, <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/the-news-never-sleeps-how-wordpress-powers-the-new-york-post/\">The New York Post</a>, <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/breaking-news-cnns-rise-to-industry-leaders-in-brazil/\">CNN Brazil</a>, <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/reinventing-vox-medias-cms-a-wordpress-migration-technical-deep-dive/\">Vox Media</a>, and <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/how-to-use-humanity-the-open-source-theme-from-amnesty/\">Amnesty International</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-huge-font-size\">Keynotes, presentations, and more</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Following Showcase Day, two programming days on September 19-20 will feature notable keynote speakers, including OSS Capital Founder <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/speaker/joseph-jacks/\">Joseph Jacks</a> and TIME CTO <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/speaker/burhan-hamid/\">Burhan Hamid</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A roster of highly anticipated presenters will also speak on a wide range of WordPress topics, from business strategy to technical insights on <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/beyond-the-playground-wordpress-as-a-tool-and-product-builder/\">WordPress Playground</a> and the <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/unleash-the-power-of-the-interactivity-api-a-new-era-for-wordpress/\">Interactivity API</a>. Attendees can learn from case studies across sectors like education and nonprofits and get inspired by the <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/speed-build-competition/\">WordPress Speed Build Battle</a>. All the presentations will be live streamed throughout the conference on the <a href=\"https://youtube.com/wordpress\">WordPress YouTube channel</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/networking/\">Networking Block</a> will also offer opportunities to connect and explore potential collaborations within the WordPress ecosystem.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-huge-font-size\">Closing session with Matt</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress Cofounder Matt Mullenweg will close the conference with a <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/an-in-person-qa-with-matt-mullenweg/\">live question-and-answer session</a>. You can watch Matt’s Q&amp;A on September 20, 2024, streaming live on the <a href=\"https://youtube.com/wordpress\">WordPress YouTube channel</a> starting at 3:45 p.m. Pacific Daylight Time (10:45 p.m. UTC).</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-huge-font-size\">Need help getting WordCamp-ready? </h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Get your <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/tickets/\">WordCamp US tickets</a> (if you haven’t already)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Check out the <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/schedule/\">full schedule of events</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Listen to Executive Director Josepha’s <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/06/episode-81-its-your-first-wordcamp-welcome/\">tips for WordCamp first-timers</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Don’t miss any of the action—follow WordPress on <a href=\"https://x.com/wordpress\">X</a>, <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/company/wordpress\">LinkedIn</a>, or <a href=\"https://www.instagram.com/wordpress/\">Instagram</a>. And when you’re sharing highlights, tips, videos, and photos from the conference floor, remember to tag #WCUS (and #WordPress) to bring everyone along for the experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Whether you’ll be joining us in person in Portland or watching online from elsewhere, we’ll see you very soon!</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 15:24:34 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"Lauren Stein\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:33;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:156:\"WordCamp Central: WordCamp Jinja 2024: Diverse Speaker Sessions, Creatives and Students Camp, Workshops, Free Web Design Hackathon, fun activities and more!\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:39:\"https://central.wordcamp.org/?p=6943667\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:175:\"https://central.wordcamp.org/news/2024/09/wordcamp-jinja-2024-diverse-speaker-sessions-creatives-and-students-camp-workshops-free-web-design-hackathon-fun-activities-and-more/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7150:\"<p>WordCamp Jinja 2024&nbsp;is scheduled for&nbsp;Thursday, 5th September to Friday, 6th September 2024, at&nbsp;The Innovation Village, Plot 5 Main Street, Jinja, Uganda as our main venue. This event is our annual WordPress conference in Jinja, Eastern Uganda, organized since 2022 by the <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/jinja-wordpress-meetup/\">WordPress Jinja Meetup Community</a>. It has grown to become one of the largest annual community tech events in Jinja City and the eastern region, bringing together diverse attendees, including developers, designers, online publishers, students, educators, and entrepreneurs from Uganda, East Africa, and beyond.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>We are thrilled to announce a lineup of local and international speakers from who will share their expertise and insights on various topics and everything to do with WordPress. Additionally, in partnership with Google Developer Groups Cloud Jinja, Rotary Club of Jinja City, Sharebility, Xerus, Hello World Africa, Women Tech Makers Jinja and other local tech communities, this year’s event will feature our annual free web design hackathon, workshops and other engaging activities. Our theme, &#8220;Unleash Your Creativity with WordPress on The Nile!&#8221;, invites you to explore WordPress in a dynamic, creative environment by the banks of the Nile River at #WordCampJinja 2024.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Expect a variety of activities, including beginner workshops, inspirational talks, showcases, hands on labs and discussions on best practices and the latest trends in WordPress development and design. Additionally, there will be a parallel Contributor event day on 6th September 2024 to engage with the WordPress Open Source community, and an exciting after-party near the Source of the Nile in Jinja, perfect for networking and relaxation.<br /><br />Accommodation options are plenty and always available for those traveling to Jinja for the first time. Attendees can find a list of hotels and guest houses through booking.com<a href=\"https://bit.ly/entebbehotels\">&nbsp;</a>or by contacting the WordCamp team directlyat&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:jinja@wordcamp.org\">jinja@wordcamp.org</a>&nbsp;for more information on Jinja&#8217;s variety of accommodation and guidance.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To book your tickets now, sponsor/partner or learn more, please visit <a href=\"https://jinja.wordcamp.org/2024\">https://jinja.wordcamp.org/2024</a>&nbsp;or&nbsp;contact us at jinja@wordcamp.org. Don’t miss this opportunity to learn, network, and celebrate WordPress in one of East Africa&#8217;s most exciting cities!</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Join the discussion via #WordCampJinja hashtag on Twitter</strong>:<br /></p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">Don\'t miss out on the amazing learning, networking and fun at  <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordCampJinja?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#WordCampJinja</a> 5th-6th Sept 2024. We have an amazing set of speakers, sessions and activities this year. <br /><br />Secure your spot here while they last: <a href=\"https://t.co/AFx1yFVsG8\">https://t.co/AFx1yFVsG8</a><a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordCampJinja?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#WordCampJinja</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordPress?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#WordPress</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/Jinja?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#Jinja</a> 1/7 <a href=\"https://t.co/3ZpTaNMrwz\">pic.twitter.com/3ZpTaNMrwz</a></p>&mdash; Jinja WordPress Meetup (@WordPressJinja) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/WordPressJinja/status/1830568118130704826?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">September 2, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-1 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">Greetings friends. It\'s our norm every year at our <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordCampJinja?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#WordCampJinja</a> to give back to the local startup and NGO community through offering our skills and talents.<br /><br />Free <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/WebDesign?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#WebDesign</a> and hands-on support during the extra <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordCampJinja?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#WordCampJinja</a> hackathon sessions at <a href=\"https://twitter.com/TheVillageUG?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@TheVillageUG</a> Jinja. <a href=\"https://t.co/FLx40N3bqt\">pic.twitter.com/FLx40N3bqt</a></p>&mdash; Jinja WordPress Meetup (@WordPressJinja) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/WordPressJinja/status/1828473854320123912?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">August 27, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">We have an amazing set of speakers at  <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordCamp?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#WordCamp</a> Jinja 2024 this year. Don\'t miss out!<a href=\"https://t.co/axCYqBTnlh\">https://t.co/axCYqBTnlh</a><br /><br />Book your ticket here if in East Africa: <a href=\"https://t.co/AFx1yFW0vG\">https://t.co/AFx1yFW0vG</a><br /><br />Global attendees:<a href=\"https://t.co/iz6FCEPz9r\">https://t.co/iz6FCEPz9r</a><a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordCampJinja?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#WordCampJinja</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordPress?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#WordPress</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/UnleashYourCreativity?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#UnleashYourCreativity</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/Jinja?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#Jinja</a></p>&mdash; Jinja WordPress Meetup (@WordPressJinja) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/WordPressJinja/status/1825320863799111712?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">August 18, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">WordCamp Jinja, Uganda, Africa. <br />Returning September 5th &amp; 6th 2024 <br />Another amazing Metaverse Opportunity presented by MetaverseWP &#8211; Africa Rising !!! <a href=\"https://t.co/rq5O2dz7Zj\">https://t.co/rq5O2dz7Zj</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/jinjacity?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@jinjacity</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/StateHouseUg?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@StateHouseUg</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/Ulia_256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@Ulia_256</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/MinofHealthUG?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@MinofHealthUG</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/usmissionuganda?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@usmissionuganda</a> <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/MetaverseWP?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#MetaverseWP</a> <a href=\"https://t.co/jU6irPoYHh\">pic.twitter.com/jU6irPoYHh</a></p>&mdash; William Jackson, MAT, CEO, Metaverse Opportunities (@wmjackson) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/wmjackson/status/1829038417276960815?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">August 29, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 13:29:46 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Mohammed Kateregga\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:34;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"Do The Woo Community: Tips for Attending WordCampUS with Marcus, Katie and BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85498\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:78:\"https://dothewoo.io/tips-for-attending-wordcampus-with-marcus-katie-and-bobwp/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48863:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-44 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p class=\"has-secondary-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-9acf640b7ba38a84a982fc35d618387f\">This show is sponsored by&#8230;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-43 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-11 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-40 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-23 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-39 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"500\" height=\"500\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Omnisend-square.jpg?resize=500%2C500&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-78802\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-container-content-24\"><strong><a href=\"https://your.omnisend.com/onlywoo_dothewoo\">Omnisend</a></strong>: Whether it&#8217;s for integration into your Woo product, or building sites for clients, <strong>Omnisend</strong> is the solution for email and SMS marketing with their CRM solution for WooCommerce shops and your own website.</p>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-12 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-42 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-25 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-41 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"525\" height=\"525\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Airwallex.jpg?resize=525%2C525&ssl=1\" alt=\"Airwallex\" class=\"wp-image-80258\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-container-content-26\"><strong><a href=\"https://www.airwallex.com/integrations/woocommerce?utm_source=701Nn000009vJ0mIAE\">Airwallex</a></strong>: With <strong>Airwallex</strong> merchants are no longer forced to convert their foreign incoming payments into their home market currencies and they can use the funds to pay suppliers internationally.</p>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p>Marcus:<br />Well, hey everyone. Welcome to another BizChat on Do the Woo. My name is Marcus Burnette, and I&#8217;m a community marketer with GoDaddy. I&#8217;m here today, as always, with my wonderful co-host from Barn2 Plugins, Katie Keith, and we&#8217;ve roped in the man behind the curtain himself, Bob Dunn. How are you both doing today?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie:<br />Yeah, I&#8217;m good, thanks. Good to talk to you, and very exciting to have Bob on as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>BobWP:<br />They let me out of my cage, so it&#8217;s great to be here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcus:<br />Got to join us every once in a while. Well, we&#8217;re going to be chatting about the WordCamp experience with us coming up and how to make the most of your time and money as a business, whether you&#8217;re attending, sponsoring, or maybe even watching from afar. We can talk about that as well. I was going to say, maybe to start, we&#8217;ll assume for the purposes of this conversation that people know what a WordCamp is and have decided to bring their business. So we&#8217;ll kind of start with that baseline and talk a little bit about just maximizing the time, maximizing the spend, and all of that. How does that sound to you all?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie:<br />Yeah, that sounds good. Should be interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcus:<br />Yep. Awesome. I guess I&#8217;ll just kick it off for all of us to chat about WordCamp as a concept, as a group of sessions, and there are sponsors and there are parties and all of that stuff. How do you balance what to attend, especially when it comes to sessions? There are a lot to choose from, with multiple tracks. How do you pick and choose what makes the most sense to attend at a WordCamp?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie:<br />Yeah, it&#8217;s easy to feel quite torn in many different directions. At the big WordCamps, you&#8217;ve got multiple tracks running alongside each other, and then, of course, all the time there is the hallway track as well. So you need to look at the schedule and think of those maybe four different things—three tracks plus the general networking. Oh, and the sponsor hall, so you could argue that&#8217;s five. Which of those do you do at any given moment? And then, in addition, you&#8217;ve got all the parties. I remember when I started going to WordCamps, it was really just like the after party, but now I think every WordCamp I go to, there are more side events being organized of all different scales by many different companies of different sizes, and a lot of those are open to everybody to register. And I think, in WordCamp Europe this year, there were probably three or four parties running in the same building simultaneously on the first night of the conference. So it was like going between different parties and ethical dilemmas of not being able to attend one after taking a place by registering. So it is a fine juggling act.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>BobWP:<br />Yeah. I think, especially for anybody new, it is finding that right balance and not totally being worn out by the end of day one or something. It&#8217;s a bit challenging, and you probably want some downtime too, so I think that&#8217;s important. Some of us fill up our cards—or dance cards, per se—and we&#8217;re going from one place to another. I think the sessions are really nice in the sense that not only are they great educationally, but for people that need a little bit of downtime to get out of the social atmosphere, they can just maybe sit and relax. A session is great because you can sit there, you can enjoy, you can learn. So there&#8217;s a lot of stuff. Unfortunately, I don&#8217;t make most of the sessions, but I do fill up the side events. I fill up the card on that. I try not to overlap too much where I disappoint somebody if I&#8217;m taking a spot. I don&#8217;t want to be doing that, but yeah, it&#8217;s a hard thing to really… Sometimes it&#8217;s that experience the first time. You&#8217;ve got to see how it goes, and from there on, you start to get what works for you and what doesn&#8217;t.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah. A lot of advice I&#8217;ve heard from people is that the sessions will almost always end up online for you to watch later, so skip them and go network. Do you think that is solid advice? Do you think there&#8217;s a worthwhile reason to look at the schedule and find sessions that you probably should attend? You don&#8217;t have the opportunity to ask questions of a speaker necessarily if you&#8217;re watching it later, where you might be able to ask questions during the session. Do you think it&#8217;s worth it? I guess the question is, is that good advice, or should people still look at the schedule and find time to at least attend a few sessions?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie:<br />Yeah, I feel a bit torn because I recently was a speaker for the first time, but generally, sessions are not an important part of a WordCamp for me. They cover things that you can access at any time of the year, either by reading blog posts or eBooks or real books or listening to podcasts like this. There&#8217;s information, the same as what you get in talks, wherever you look these days. It&#8217;s really excellent how much the WordPress community produces that you can learn from. And then, as you said, Marcus, you can watch things later. There is sort of something to be said for going in person, but I feel that&#8217;s a missed opportunity, and I love what Bob said about it being a kind of break. I go to sessions for an introvert break, and I might learn something, but yeah, that&#8217;s track six. I said there were four or five tracks, and the introvert track is the other one, which might be a wellness room. For me, it&#8217;s often just going back to my hotel room for half an hour for that reason. Actually, I like to stay at the venue if it&#8217;s a hotel where possible because you can just go if you need a bit of a break and then come back down into the thick of it. But I find that the networking, both with people I already know and people I haven&#8217;t met yet, is the most valuable part of attending a WordCamp, and the sessions, therefore, aren&#8217;t as important unless I need a break.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>BobWP:<br />I think that it&#8217;s, again, what you&#8217;re going there for. And I think maybe saying it in the way of that they are online, so being aware that they&#8217;re online if something happens, if you cannot make it, or you get into a conversation you don&#8217;t want to end. That&#8217;s a great alternative because you do have that option. But like Katie said, I think there&#8217;s also some people too that they like to immerse themselves in the actual room, listening to it versus doing it online. So I think it&#8217;s a recommendation more than a suggestion like, &#8220;Hey, you can go there, but if you can&#8217;t make every session, they are online.&#8221; And like you said, everybody&#8217;s going to make their choice. Sometimes I feel really bad when somebody asks me, &#8220;Oh, did you come and see my session?&#8221; And then you fall back, &#8220;Oh, well, I will catch up online.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie:<br />I do go to sessions if it&#8217;s somebody I know because I&#8217;m supporting them. And it&#8217;s sort of different motivation, isn&#8217;t it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah, that makes sense. But it also becomes harder and harder as you get to know more and more people.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie:<br />True, true. We do know a lot of speakers by now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah. And you mentioned that you recently were able to be a speaker. One of my questions I had for you, and I&#8217;ll ask Bob too because he&#8217;s been a speaker, do you feel like there&#8217;s a strong business case for applying to speak? Did you feel like, I guess, did you feel like that was worthwhile for your business? Did you do that because you wanted to have that as an accolade, as something that you&#8217;ve done under your belt? Personally, I guess just, and then talking about whether or not people are even attending sessions, is there a good business case for applying and being accepted to speak and being a speaker at a WordCamp event?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie:<br />Well, it&#8217;s interesting because I didn&#8217;t particularly want to be a speaker, so I do the WP Product Talk podcast with Matt Cromwell and two other people, but Matt particularly invited me to apply with him, and I kind of just said yes without really thinking about it or whether I actually wanted to. I just thought, &#8220;Yeah, that would help promote the podcast. Let&#8217;s go for it.&#8221; And then we were accepted, and I was like, &#8220;Oh, I&#8217;ve never spoken to a big group. I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;m comfortable with this,&#8221; but I wasn&#8217;t going to drop out or anything. So I did lots of practicing, and it went really well. But reflecting on it afterward, actually, I realized that it was valuable to the business to be a speaker, and particularly in comparison with sponsoring. And I know I upset a few people, which I regret afterward because I tweeted or something that having sponsored the previous year and then being a speaker the following year, I felt that my company had similar exposure from the two things. Also, there were six of my team members walking around in the bright Barn2 T-shirts, and that plus being a speaker and I was on a discussion panel. I tweeted that I felt maybe Barn2 had as much exposure from that as sponsoring. And then lots of people quite rightly got upset that we need to be encouraging people to sponsor and not saying it&#8217;s not necessary. So I would say they are different ways of achieving exposure for your company. Sponsoring is one way, which undeniably does that. But yes, being a speaker does help you get exposure, particularly if you can think of a topic to talk about, which is in some way not directly promotional but is</p>\n\n\n\n<p>relevant to what you do. Because I was talking about how to build a product company, which has nothing to do with the plugins that I sell. So if you can think of something a bit more relevant—if you sell WooCommerce extensions, your talk can be about WooCommerce to help you position yourself as an expert in that field—particularly then I think that could possibly help with sales. Maybe not in the short term, but in the long term, people would recognize you and your company more and be more likely to become a customer. So I would say that there is a business benefit of being a speaker.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah, I&#8217;d argue that talking about building a product company is relevant in the sense that I like to know who I&#8217;m buying products from, and so knowing you and your company better would be good for business overall. And we&#8217;ll talk about the sponsorship piece in a moment, but I want to give Bob a chance too. Bob, I know your business is a little bit different. You&#8217;re not a product company or an agency, although you&#8217;ve done both of those things too, I believe. Do you feel like there&#8217;s a business case to speaking? Is it just exposure, or is it part of the long-term game—the long game of hoping that people recognize you and want to purchase from you down the line? Or is there maybe a more direct business case for it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>BobWP:<br />Yeah, I think that… I wish I could remember my first time speaking. I need to go to a site that will tell me that, which we&#8217;re all familiar with—Marcus&#8217;s site. But yeah, so it was early. I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s 2011, 12, 13 when I did it, and yeah, I forced myself to do it because, at that point, I wasn&#8217;t really into speaking to large groups. I tried to do it at a few other conferences too, but it was personal branding for me. I was doing a lot of training back then, blogging—that was it—basically a lot of training. And for me, it was a good way to brand myself because, obviously, what I talked about was what I talked about in my tutorials or my videos or whatever. So it was certainly something I did for a few years. Then there came a point where I didn&#8217;t really necessarily feel like I didn&#8217;t want to brand myself or continue to brand myself, but I just got to the point where I thought, &#8220;I think I&#8217;m done speaking at WordCamps.&#8221; And I think that decision partly came too because I&#8217;d done it for a few years and so many people apply to those, and I thought, &#8220;Why am I continuing to take up the space there?&#8221; And so I kind of stepped back, and I prefer not speaking now. I enjoy going to WordCamps, but I would encourage anybody to do it and see how it works for you too, personally. It&#8217;s not always the easiest thing for a lot of people to do—to get up and stand in front of a crowd like that. But I&#8217;ve talked to many people who have been very stressed. I&#8217;ll just divert to a little short story. Years ago, I was at a WordCamp, a local WordCamp. There was a guy sitting on the floor, and I&#8217;m not going to mention him, but he&#8217;s very known in the WordPress space. But he was sitting on the floor by himself, and I asked him what was wrong. He looked a little stressed. He said, &#8220;I&#8217;m speaking for the very first time, and I don&#8217;t think I should have done this.&#8221; So I sat down on the floor next to him. We just started talking. I said, &#8220;People are pretty forgiving,&#8221; and this was quite a few years ago, but I think they still are. I said, &#8220;Go in there, do your thing.&#8221; And eventually, he did. I don&#8217;t know if I really made him feel any better about it, but afterward, somebody did come up to me and, without even asking them, they said, &#8220;Hey, the guy was a little nervous, but boy, the information was great. He did a really good job.&#8221; So I went back and told him. I thought he should hear that, and he did smile. He said, &#8220;Wow, that&#8217;s great to know.&#8221; But yeah, it&#8217;s something you&#8217;ve got to… For a lot of people, you make yourself do it, but I think it&#8217;s, again, it really depends on the person and if that&#8217;s what you&#8217;re comfortable with and if you feel you really want to build that brand, whether it&#8217;s your company&#8217;s brand or your personal brand.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah, if your profile is up to date fully, your first talk was in 2011 at WordCamp Seattle, so, oh wow, been a little bit, but you&#8217;ve spoken plenty of times since then. Yeah, I spoke as well last year, I think it was, at WordCamp Phoenix, and I appreciated, I guess, the exposure. I appreciated the way that it opened up opportunities for people to ask you questions. I think that was more beneficial than most anything else was. Now you&#8217;re a name on the sheet and a face that people have seen that, for better or for worse, makes you an expert in at least the topic that you were talking about, but also by the nature of it, a WordPress expert in the WordPress expert circle. And so it gives opportunities for you to have people approach you and ask questions and say, &#8220;I want to learn more about X, Y, Z.&#8221; And if you&#8217;re a business, that opens up doors for you to talk about, like Katie was saying, if your talk was about something related to your business, there&#8217;s obviously an open door there to then talk about some of the products or services that you sell as well—to say, &#8220;Hey, I understand that problem. I&#8217;ve come across it lots of times. We&#8217;ve actually built a product that helps with that problem. Let me tell you about it.&#8221; And the sales process kind of comes to you a little bit in that regard, and I think that&#8217;s helpful as well. It is something that you have to apply and be accepted for. So let&#8217;s talk about the other direction, which is sponsorship, which you pay into as a business. You can also pay to be a sponsor. That guarantees you a spot in the sponsor hall, whatever that may look like. It&#8217;s a little different based on the size of the conference, but that gets you guaranteed access to attendees to talk a little bit about what you do. I don&#8217;t want to open the controversy box again with Katie there on whether you should or shouldn&#8217;t, but maybe we can talk a little bit about the business case for sponsoring a little bit and what do you get? I know that Katie, you&#8217;ve sponsored in the past. Bob, I know that you&#8217;ve sponsored in the past. I&#8217;m part of the GoDaddy team that sponsors globally all of the WordCamps, so maybe we can chat just a little bit about the business case for sponsoring WordCamp events. We&#8217;ll start with you, Katie.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie:<br />I think we can all agree, and this is well-documented now, that sponsoring does not generate enough direct sales in the short term to cover the cost of sponsorship. However, there are still other benefits, particularly if you have the kind of marketing strategy and accompanying budget where you are going for general brand awareness within the WordPress community, which, for example, hosting companies—that&#8217;s very important that they&#8217;re seen to be big players, support the community, and so on. Being there has a symbolic importance, as well as directly getting people to know your brand over time. So I think there are benefits, but you shouldn&#8217;t sponsor a WordCamp if you think it&#8217;s going to generate more sales than it costs straight away and that you&#8217;ll be able to measure that. Last year, when I sponsored for the first time, I did a sale—a 50% off sale—and gave everybody leaflets with coupon codes, and we made literally zero sales from that. And I know because nobody used that coupon; I can track that. So it is not a direct ROI, but people must be more familiar with our brand. Hundreds and hundreds of people talked to us over the two days. We did product demos. Existing customers asked questions which might have helped to boost their loyalty over time and their likelihood of being retained and renewing. There are lots of indirect benefits, but you&#8217;re never going to measure them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>BobWP:<br />Do the Woo sponsored, and actually several people came up to me and asked me, &#8220;Why are you sponsoring?&#8221; They couldn&#8217;t quite understand it because I am not selling a product. I&#8217;m basically saying, &#8220;Hey, come and listen to our shows.&#8221; And I thought about it long and hard. I had a little experience with being able to take over a booth at WordCamp US last year. So then, after that experience, I decided to try WordCamp Asia and WordCamp Europe. And one thing is, yeah, your expectations—you&#8217;ve got to understand what to expect and can this bring enough value to you for brand awareness? And that was one big part of it, to make people aware of the podcasts. I&#8217;d also… It&#8217;s easy to say, &#8220;Hey, go spend whatever amount of money out there you need to spend to be a sponsor.&#8221; But I also had my sponsors. I talked to them about me sponsoring at least a couple of the flagship sponsorships, so I got that money through my sponsorships where I could sponsor, which is kind of meta. But anyway, it was incredibly valuable for me because of not just being a podcast but being what the podcast stands for within the community. I mean, it became more of a community table. I know that Katie was able to spend some time at it, and people would just come up and talk about things. They don&#8217;t always need to talk about a podcast show. Katie was catching people she maybe hadn&#8217;t seen yet because we were in a very nice location, especially at WordCamp Europe, where people were passing by. And I had several</p>\n\n\n\n<p>people later on say, &#8220;Hey, I was going to stop by and say hi, but there were so many people around your booth that I just thought, well, maybe I can catch you another time.&#8221; And they said, &#8220;We just saw you constantly busy,&#8221; and it wasn&#8217;t necessarily, again, selling or talking about the podcast endlessly, but when somebody would be able to come up and say, &#8220;Hey, what&#8217;s your podcast about?&#8221; I had all these stickers out for the different shows, and so I&#8217;d get talking to them. I&#8217;d say, &#8220;Well, what do you do?&#8221; I&#8217;d give them the sticker of the show that I thought fit them because they maybe wouldn&#8217;t want to listen to them all. So it was a very good investment for me and a good investment for the growth. I think Katie said something like, &#8220;If you can find the right strategy and you find the value and the value equals what you have to spend,&#8221; especially in the case of Katie or GoDaddy. I mean, I set myself up, and I was basically it, and then some of the hosts were there. But you&#8217;ve got a team that you&#8217;ve got to fly there or whatever. You&#8217;ve got a team that you&#8217;ve got to put in the hotels, feed, all this stuff. So there&#8217;s a lot of added expense besides just that dollar amount you&#8217;re looking at for the sponsorship. So it&#8217;s a good value if you know what you&#8217;re getting into.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcus:<br />For something like WordCamp US, I don&#8217;t even want to talk about the amount of money that GoDaddy spends to sponsor and have team members and all of that there. And the ROI is impossible to either track long-term or make up in immediate sales. WordCamps are generally not sales events. We aren&#8217;t salesy. When people come up to the booth, we&#8217;re happy to talk about the things that we&#8217;re doing with WordPress and GoDaddy and share as much information as people are interested in listening to, but it&#8217;s not a sales event. We all kind of know that, and so making that up is nearly impossible. That being said, and we could probably do an entire episode—or I think maybe we even have done an episode—about why or why not to sponsor, there&#8217;s another part to sponsoring WordCamp in the sense that one of the big reasons that we&#8217;re global sponsors and continue to be large sponsors at flagship events is just to show the community that we&#8217;re here and invested in the community. There&#8217;s clearly an investment cost there that isn&#8217;t recouped in sales. That is just us saying, &#8220;We want to see this project, this ecosystem, this community succeed. We&#8217;re going to put our dollars behind it and show up and show up big and have lots of people come with us to meet the community and be part of the community and contribute, to be part of Contributor Day and all of that stuff.&#8221; That being said, I also wonder kind of the flip side that I always ask myself and ask people when we start to talk about whether we should or shouldn&#8217;t be at any particular WordCamp is: is there a cost to not being at a WordCamp? We&#8217;ve clearly discussed not financial, but kind of like a reputation cost. Does showing up one year and not showing up the next year look like, &#8220;Oh no, I don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s going on with that company. They must not be doing well. They decided not to sponsor. Were they not able to sponsor? Are they pulling back from the community?&#8221; That kind of thing. I wonder what you both think about that, if there are thoughts of what the cost is to not being a sponsor, especially, I guess, if you&#8217;ve been a sponsor before. I guess if you&#8217;ve never been a sponsor, then are you irrelevant already is the first question. And if you were a sponsor and then you aren&#8217;t a sponsor in the future, is there a level of people thinking that you&#8217;re on your way to irrelevance? I don&#8217;t know. I think there&#8217;s a psychological piece to it too, and I wonder what you all think about that, whether there&#8217;s a cost of not being a sponsor or not being there at all. Katie, I know that you weren&#8217;t a sponsor, but you still showed up and were there and were a speaker and had a team there, and they were walking around in their shirts, so clearly not irrelevant, clearly there to support the community. But I wonder if there&#8217;s a cost to not showing up.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie:<br />I think it depends on your line of work. I think the main types that can be hurt by not sponsoring are hosting companies because it&#8217;s almost like an arms race to show who&#8217;s the biggest and has the biggest booth. Does the type of booth fit with people&#8217;s perceptions of your scale of company? And it can go both ways, so you kind of do need to choose wisely both whether to just not be sponsoring and, if you are, is it going to make you look good or bad basically. Whereas I think there&#8217;s nothing wrong with a small booth if you are a small company. Like at Barn2, I feel it fits our reputation or whatever. I don&#8217;t think, as far as I know, any eyebrows will be raised by having the small booth. Same with Do the Woo—it&#8217;s a community booth; you&#8217;re not a product company, Bob. So I think it makes sense for you to have that level, but the big companies need to think about that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>BobWP:<br />That&#8217;s interesting because I&#8217;ve thought of it, but I&#8217;ve never thought of it in the question that Marcus said because it is perception. And I guess where that perception comes from is probably more for the core community too, is the people that see you all the time and know about you all the time as opposed to maybe new people in WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah, it&#8217;s interesting for sure, and as someone who is largely in charge of running a big booth for a hosting company at flagship events and stuff, it&#8217;s definitely something that we do think about. What is the perception? What is the perception in the giveaways that we&#8217;re giving away? I mean, there&#8217;s definitely the perception aspect to all of it. The design of the booth has to be on par with a large brand or whatever. Sometimes that&#8217;s good, sometimes that&#8217;s bad. Sometimes we want to look more corporate than we are. Sometimes we want to look less corporate than we are—more approachable, less approachable—and there&#8217;s just a lot that goes into it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>BobWP:<br />It&#8217;s interesting. That could actually flow over into the perception of side events too. Why is this person doing this huge side event and this hosting company is having a smaller whatever? Is that another perceived idea that, oh, they&#8217;re kind of cutting back because of whatever? Speaking of side events, I&#8217;m curious, and this kind of gets away a little bit from the sponsorship, but I was talking to Katie a little bit about it: do either of you ever strategically plan side events? Is it just, &#8220;Hey, I am going to sign up for this one, this one; I&#8217;m going to do this,&#8221; and just party or meet people and have fun, or is there some other little method to your madness?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah, in my case, I&#8217;m on the clock at camps basically from the time that my plane touches down to when I get back to the airport and head out. And so the side events, for me, are just as much hallway track and networking as any other part of the event, but it is definitely far more casual and easier to jump into conversations. The networking doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean we&#8217;re talking business, but I am getting to know people, creating those relationships and forming friendships with people that I&#8217;ve seen at a few camps and deepening relationships with people that I&#8217;ve seen for the first time or people that I&#8217;ve talked to online a bunch of times and we finally get to meet up in person. So a part of it is trying to figure out where are some of the people that I want to have conversations with going? What are their plans, where are they headed? Some of it is knowing some of the other side event organizers and them asking me specifically, &#8220;Hey, I&#8217;d love for you to drop by.&#8221; And then I try to make an attempt to make it to those events. There comes a time where there&#8217;s so many of them that they sort of overlap or even are in the same building, and then you&#8217;re playing that classic TV show where you&#8217;re trying to be in two or three places at once. So you&#8217;re zipping out the back door to drop down to another party for 30 minutes, and then you&#8217;re coming back up, and you&#8217;re like, &#8220;I just went to the bathroom real quick,&#8221; and trying to keep conversations going and stuff. As far as strategy-wise goes, I&#8217;m there at those to basically just deepen relationships and talk to people and have a good time. And obviously, the benefits of that spill out past the WordCamp event, where I can have conversations back online with folks but know them a little bit better and their personalities and all of that and have better conversations and stuff. As far as time management strategies, that&#8217;s so difficult because you have to map out where each of the events are and what time they&#8217;re happening and when they start and when they end and how far one is from the other. And I don&#8217;t have energy for all of that, but I try to make sure that I&#8217;m getting to the events, especially if someone has specifically asked me, like, &#8220;Hey, I&#8217;m going to be at this event, and I&#8217;d like to chat with you for some time. Are you going to be there? Would you make it there?&#8221; And then I&#8217;ll try to make it there, and I&#8217;ll have a conversation with those folks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie:<br />Yeah, I think with the side events, my strategy has definitely relaxed over the years. When I first started going to WordCamp, I would always make a point of wearing the T-shirt to all the side events. Even costume things like the after parties would often say, &#8220;Wear a costume.&#8221; I was like, &#8220;Nope, I want to be in my Barn2 T-shirt, and I want it to say on</p>\n\n\n\n<p>the front and the back what my company is because then people are more likely to come up to me if they know who we are.&#8221; And I think if you are trying to raise awareness and you don&#8217;t know that many people, that is a good strategy. I don&#8217;t particularly do that anymore at the side events because I&#8217;m all networked out by then after the daytime when I was wearing the T-shirt. And I know enough people that there will be people to talk to all evening without needing to advertise my company, and people know me more anyway from the podcast and Twitter and what photos and whatever. So I don&#8217;t do that, but I would recommend it if you&#8217;re just starting out. And also, the parties vary in terms of how loud they are, and really it&#8217;s best to view them as networking events. So the after party… Everybody constantly feeds back that they need a quiet room, but they&#8217;re often very bad at that. They were fine this year at WordCamp US; it was in a museum again like last year’s. But the WordCamp Europe after party was too loud this year, for example, despite feedback saying that they needed quieter areas. So if you just want to talk to people and network, find the quieter parties, which you can do by thinking about the location. Is it a nightclub, or is it in a restaurant or a cocktail bar or something that&#8217;s going to be quieter? So that&#8217;s good. And I heard an interesting tip, which I&#8217;ve never implemented, which is that if you&#8217;ve got multiple team members, send different team members to different side events so that your team has representation across more of the community. I think that&#8217;s kind of a shame because one of the big benefits of WordCamps that we haven&#8217;t talked about is bringing your team together. It may be that you don&#8217;t have company retreats; we don&#8217;t have company retreats. We just bring each team member to their local flagship WordCamp, and that&#8217;s a really good bonding experience for people. And so that&#8217;s another reason to go to WordCamp. I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;d want to separate them out at a side event, but I can see the business benefit in terms of marketing of doing so.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>BobWP:<br />Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, at least I thought I&#8217;m like Marcus—if somebody says, &#8220;Are you going to be at this event? I&#8217;d love to talk,&#8221; I truly try to make an effort to be there. And I&#8217;m a little bit more lax on, as long as I&#8217;m not, like I said before, overlapping and not showing up. I sign up for quite a few of them because I also find that often the opportunity comes to meet somebody that I haven&#8217;t met yet at WordCamp—maybe catching up or someone I don&#8217;t know at all—just happened to run into them, say, &#8220;I&#8217;m going to this event because I know more people at it or because of the brand or whatever.&#8221; I find myself signing up for just about any event that comes my way that I have time for because what else am I going to be doing—sitting in my room or something? So I might as well be out meeting people. So yeah, I don&#8217;t necessarily have much of a strategy. I do find that I do end up leaving if I can&#8217;t hear what somebody&#8217;s saying. I think one party in Athens—I don&#8217;t know where it was—I damaged my hearing even more than it already is, but it&#8217;s hard to communicate for some of us in those situations, and I will likely make my way to another party if it becomes a point where I just cannot have a conversation at all. But yeah, I think it&#8217;s going to all depend on what works for you and what is right for you and some of that stuff. I&#8217;ve had people actually say to me that they went to a side event and they found out it was almost too overwhelming, even more so than the WordCamps. There was just too much socializing, and they were ready for some downtime and stuff. So you&#8217;ve just got to kind of play it by ear and decide what works for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah. My last side event question was going to be, we sort of all agree that there are good networking opportunities. Do you tend to talk shop at those or not? Or does it depend? Are you looking to just hang out and get to know people who they are a little bit better? Are you offended if people come up to you and ask to talk shop? How do you handle those conversations?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie:<br />I go with the flow. I&#8217;m happy to do either and to allow people to lead. Sometimes I&#8217;ll be meeting new people, and you may end up talking shop because you&#8217;ve done perhaps some collaboration with them in the past online and you&#8217;ve not met in person, or you might use it as a chance to get to know each other personally, which helps to strengthen your professional relationship. Or at other side events, I end up speaking with people I already know well and already know everything about their businesses. So we would be talking about other things then. So I think, unless you have a really clear strategy, which is fine, you can go with the flow and see what happens.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>BobWP:<br />Whatever way the wind blows, however it works. Although it was very ironic that the first three flagships I went to after we moved to Portugal, 90% of the people who walked up to me, the first question out of their mouth was, &#8220;How is Portugal?&#8221; So I repeated that story numerous times for three different flagship WordCamps—at least probably, yeah, maybe hundreds of times and stuff. So I didn&#8217;t talk shop a lot because people didn&#8217;t care about that. All they wanted to know was how the move and how Portugal went.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie:<br />That&#8217;s what happens if you&#8217;re famous and have an interesting story.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>BobWP:<br />Yeah. I know we could go on and on. Is there a little tip or strategy that you&#8217;ve found works, that doesn&#8217;t kind of fall into the norm, or something that just helps people who are going and trying to navigate whether it&#8217;s their first time or they&#8217;re within their first few WordCamps that they&#8217;re still trying to find out the right thing to do?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah, so I&#8217;ll take it from the introvert&#8217;s perspective because, as weird as it is for me to have a job where I go to WordCamps and talk to people, I am more introverted by nature. So what I do—what I find is extremely helpful—is I&#8217;ll get wherever the camp is, at least kind of the day before everything starts happening, and give myself a few hours to just leave on my own and go explore the city, go explore just outside the city. If there&#8217;s a WordCamp US in Portland this year, there are great places to go hiking and see some stuff outdoors as well. Just get away from everyone else for a couple of hours because the entire event is going to be very &#8220;peopley.&#8221; You&#8217;re going to be non-stop talking to people from the time that registration starts to the time that the side event after party or whatever ends. And so you&#8217;re talking at least a day, but in many cases, multiple days worth of just being around, being surrounded by people and talking to people constantly. And so I generally try to just get away for a couple of hours by myself. I&#8217;ll grab either my camera or just have my phone on me and just go out away and take pictures and walk around and just enjoy the silence, I guess, for a little bit. And then that really prepares me to be in a headspace to talk to people for many hours at a time. And so I highly recommend doing that for anyone who&#8217;s mildly introverted, I guess, just to give yourself some time to be on your own before you get into being around everyone else for that long of a time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie:<br />Well, that definitely applies to the majority of people who attend WordCamps as well, probably unlike conferences in some other industries. But that is definitely the case with WordCamp attendees as a whole. So my advice would be to do with networking. If you don&#8217;t already know people at a WordCamp, you need to understand it&#8217;s the sort of place you can just go up to somebody and talk to them. It doesn&#8217;t matter what you say—just, &#8220;Oh, hey, I&#8217;m so-and-so, what do you do?&#8221; People are open to that. And I&#8217;d say this even as a woman in a male-dominated industry. People don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s strange if you just go up to people and talk to them. They also don&#8217;t act inappropriately. It&#8217;s just everybody is friendly, accepts that it&#8217;s a networking event, and you can do that. So even if you are quite shy and you&#8217;ve never been to a WordCamp before, do that because I think you could listen to Marcus and say, &#8220;Well, I don&#8217;t know anyone. I&#8217;m not going to spend all day talking.&#8221; Actually, you should just go into the sponsor hall and go up to the sponsors. You may get into conversations with people near the sponsor booths as well. That&#8217;s a good place for networking if you don&#8217;t already know people. So do end up talking to people and try and remember them. I&#8217;m really bad at this. You talk to so many people, and then you&#8217;re probably going to have some kind of contact through collaborations or link exchanges or whatever kind of partnership work you do with other people—or hiring them or being hired by them or any of these things. At some point in the future, they may well remember you and you don&#8217;t remember them. And that happens to me all the time. And so try and write down who you&#8217;ve talked to or something and keep that because you never know when you need a bit of help with the memory. Overwhelming.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>BobWP:<br />Yeah, good to take a picture of a selfie or take a picture of them. Then you can zoom in on their name tag if it&#8217;s not flipped over, and you can see their name at least.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie:<br />Good advice.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>BobWP:<br />Yeah. Yeah, I&#8217;ve done that a few times. And a little bit of piggyback on the networking. What I always tell people is visit all the vendors, all the sponsors, and it&#8217;s kind of two-part. One is, they&#8217;re not going to be, like Marcus said, none of them are like these huge high-pressure sales pitches you may have experienced at other conferences that you&#8217;ve gone to. They do like to talk, and you never know what will happen in a conversation. That&#8217;s just what Katie was saying—going up and talking to people. You never know what kind of connection you&#8217;re going to make, what may happen down the road, what kind of friendship you might build. So make sure and do that. And another thing I learned early on to do is as you&#8217;re looking at the sponsor list, if there&#8217;s a sponsor that you&#8217;re not familiar with, there is a new name, and you&#8217;re like, &#8220;Especially some of the smaller sponsors will be that way,&#8221; and you think, &#8220;Oh, is this somebody I should know about?&#8221; Go and check out their website. And if it&#8217;s somebody that you think would be worth getting to know better, or maybe it&#8217;s a product or a service that you&#8217;re thinking you&#8217;d really find valuable, learn a little bit about their business—just enough to be able to walk up to them and not say, &#8220;Hey, what do you do?&#8221; Say, &#8220;Hey, I checked out your site, and I noticed you do these couple of things, and I&#8217;m kind of interested in that one part of it.&#8221; And probably a lot of sponsors will go, &#8220;Wow, this person actually took the time,&#8221; and the conversation&#8217;s going to go a lot more smoothly. And you don&#8217;t want to do that with every sponsor—do the research—but there might be some that maybe you want to become an affiliate, maybe you want to… Something you have in your mind, you might segue into a conversation knowing a little bit about them better than just asking, &#8220;What do you do?&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie:<br />Yeah, that&#8217;s good advice. And linked to that, we haven&#8217;t mentioned the attendee list that you can read through—a list of the people who are going beforehand. It&#8217;s a long list. There are thousands of people on it, but if you are just starting out and you don&#8217;t know who you want to meet with, it&#8217;s a really good idea, I think, to spend half an hour reading through it and just seeing what names jump out at you. It might be individuals&#8217; names that, I don&#8217;t know, you follow on Twitter or have had some kind of contact with or seen in a podcast or doing a talk at a previous WordCamp. Anything to make you recognize them and think maybe you want to reach out beforehand and arrange to connect with them. Or alternatively, you might recognize their company name and think, actually, yeah, I could get some business benefit from having an in-person connection with someone from that company. So the attendee list is another way to do that as well as the sponsors. So that&#8217;s been great. I think we&#8217;ve covered a lot of different angles of how to get the most out of a WordCamp, whether you are sponsoring, speaking, or just attending. So I hope everybody has a great time at WordCamp US, and we&#8217;ll all be there. And yeah, I hope it&#8217;s useful.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n\n<p>In this <strong>Woo BizChat, Marcus Burnette, Katie Keith, and BobWP</strong> dive into how to get the most out of <strong><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/\">WordCampUS</a></strong>, whether you’re sponsoring, speaking, or just attending. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>They talk about balancing sessions with networking, especially through side events, and the long-term perks of building connections in the WordPress community. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Plus, they share some useful tips for introverts and newcomers on how to navigate WordCamps and make the experience as rewarding as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Balancing WordCamp Activities</strong>: Attendees should consider balancing session attendance with networking opportunities, such as hallway tracks and side events. Sessions can often be viewed later online, so focusing on networking might provide more immediate value.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Networking Strategy</strong>: It&#8217;s important to be open to meeting new people and networking, even for introverts. Approaching sponsors and other attendees can lead to valuable connections and collaborations.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Speaking at WordCamps</strong>: Speaking at WordCamps can be a great way to build personal and company branding, even if it doesn&#8217;t directly lead to immediate business. It&#8217;s also a good opportunity to support the community and share expertise.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Sponsorship Considerations</strong>: Sponsorships are more about brand awareness and community involvement than immediate sales ROI. However, sponsors should be mindful of the perception their presence (or absence) may create within the community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Side Events</strong>: Side events are valuable for casual networking and building relationships. Attendees might consider which events to attend based on who they want to connect with and the atmosphere of the event.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Preparation Tips</strong>: For newcomers or those who are introverted, it&#8217;s helpful to take some time alone before the event, research sponsors and attendees, and approach networking in a relaxed, go-with-the-flow manner.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Team Strategy</strong>: If attending with a team, consider spreading out across different side events to maximize the company’s presence and networking opportunities, though it’s also important to use the event as a team-building experience.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 13:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:35;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:52:\"Do The Woo Community: Welcome Our New Sponsor Kinsta\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=85506\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/welcome-our-new-sponsor-kinsta/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2429:\"<p>Hey everyone! We&#8217;re happy to announce that <strong><a href=\"https://kinsta.com/?utm_source=dothewoo&utm_medium=Referral&utm_campaign=website\">Kinsta</a></strong> is now officially one of our sponsors supporting the Do the Woo community! <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f389.png\" alt=\"?\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re in the market for WordPress hosting, check out what Kinsta brings to the table:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Container Technology</strong>: No more shared resources. Your site gets its own container, ensuring faster and more reliable performance.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Latest C3D Google Cloud Servers</strong>: Kinsta’s using the newest Google Cloud servers to power all your sites. Expect great speeds and top-tier performance.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Global CDN &amp; Edge Caching</strong>: Say goodbye to slow load times—Kinsta’s global CDN and edge caching got you covered.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>G2’s Highest Rated in Managed WordPress Hosting</strong>: Kinsta is used by users all over, and they’re the top-rated on G2!</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Cloudflare Enterprise for All Sites</strong>: Every site hosted on Kinsta gets Cloudflare Enterprise, meaning enhanced security and speed.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Auto Backups, Staging, and Plugin Vulnerability Alerts</strong>: Kinsta’s got your back with automatic backups, a staging environment, and alerts for any plugin vulnerabilities.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Uptime Monitoring</strong>: Kinsta keeps an eye on your site 24/7, so you don’t have to worry about downtime.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>SSH, REST API, and APM</strong>: For the tech-savvy, Kinsta offers SSH access, a REST API, and Application Performance Monitoring. </li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>24/7 Live Support by Humans</strong>: Anytime you need help, real people (not bots) are there to assist you—day or night.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Agency Partner Program</strong>: Agencies, listen up! You can get up to $10,000 in credits if you switch over to Kinsta. </li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Account Manager &amp; Custom Plans</strong>: Need something tailored just for you? Kinsta provides account managers and custom plans to fit your unique needs.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>We are happy to have <strong><a href=\"https://kinsta.com/?utm_source=dothewoo&utm_medium=Referral&utm_campaign=website\">Kinsta</a></strong> on board and their support of the community!</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 10:26:08 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"bobwptrainer\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:36;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:55:\"WPTavern: Automattic is Migrating Tumblr to WordPress \";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=160831\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:64:\"https://wptavern.com/automattic-is-migrating-tumblr-to-wordpress\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5966:\"<p>Automattic announced last week its plan to <a href=\"https://automattic.com/2024/08/27/shipping-tumblr-and-wordpress/\">migrate Tumblr to WordPress</a>, a move described as “one of the largest technical migrations in internet history.” This move comes after Automattic <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/automattic-acquires-tumblr-plans-to-rebuild-the-backend-powered-by-wordpress\">acquired Tumblr</a> in 2019, marking the company’s biggest acquisition at the time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>During the acquisition, Matt Mullenweg had pointed out that “Tumblr and WordPress have always been very philosophically aligned.” An emerging Tumblr/WordPress plugin and theme ecosystem were on the cards, and Matt said that once Tumblr’s backend is on WordPress, the idea of plugins can be explored.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>After the acquisition, Tumblr faced tough times, with Matt revealing last year that it was spending about <a href=\"https://techcrunch.com/2023/07/12/tumblr-is-losing-30m-each-year-ceo-says/\">$30 million</a> more than its annual earnings. The porn ban didn’t help matters, but the <a href=\"https://techcrunch.com/2023/02/15/is-the-exodus-over-heres-how-twitter-alternatives-have-fared-since-elon-musks-acquisition/\">Twitter Exodus</a> of early 2023 following Elon Musk’s acquisition of the social media site gave it a sudden boost.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The migration announcement post said, “We’re not talking about changing Tumblr. We’re not turning Tumblr into WordPress. That would defeat the purpose. We acquired Tumblr to benefit from its differences and strengths, not to water it down. We love Tumblr’s streamlined posting experience and its current product direction. We’re not changing that. We’re talking about running Tumblr’s backend on WordPress. You won’t even notice a difference from the outside.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Automattic <a href=\"https://x.com/automattic/status/1829097044549489008\">reiterated</a> that<strong> “The changes will be exclusively at the backend.”</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>The migration though not easy &#8211; with Tumblr hosting over half a billion blogs &#8211; will be a win-win situation for both WordPress and Tumblr. Automattic believes that “Tumblr will benefit from the collective effort that goes into the open source WordPress project. And WordPress will benefit from the tools and creativity we invest into Tumblr and contribute back to WordPress.”&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Men Wanted for Hazardous Journey</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Automattic is actively seeking experienced PHP programmers to undertake this migration project. Matt compared this to the famous British explorer Ernest Shackleton’s recruitment ad for his Antarctic expedition, which read, “Men wanted for hazardous journey. Small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in case of success.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The <a href=\"https://automattic.com/work-with-us/tumblr-migration/\">advertisement continues</a>, “If you’re an experienced programmer… if you’re a SQL‑slinger… if you’ve worked on other big audacious projects like this… if Gordian knots tremble in your presence, we want to work with you!”</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>&#8220;We’re already seeing interesting candidates apply and resume review is underway for full-time roles. All relevant experience is welcome, particularly those who have worked on other large migrations or are just excited about working on a challenge of this size.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8211; Bob Ralian, Tumblr Migration Lead</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>Interested candidates can apply through the <a href=\"https://automattic.com/work-with-us/tumblr-migration/\">website</a> giving a brief introduction about themselves. The post does not give any details about the remuneration or the application deadline. </p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Community Response&nbsp;</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Matt <a href=\"https://x.com/photomatt/status/1829675793058054285\">tweeted</a> “I&#8217;m excited about this one.”, while <a href=\"https://x.com/karks88/status/1829677054625038789\">Eric Karkovack</a> of Speckyboy quipped “Will there be a project status blog? If so, I&#8217;d recommend calling it &#8220;Tumblng Into WordPress&#8221;.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Platform Lead Engineer at Pew Research Center <a href=\"https://x.com/SethRubenstein/status/1828977899082252368\">Seth Rubenstein</a> tweeted, “This is so exciting. I hope this means it becomes easier to create Tumblr themes in the future; especially, dare I say, if they’re just block themes…” <a href=\"https://x.com/courtneyr_dev/status/1828979569581298069\">Courtney Robertson</a>, Open Source Developer Advocate at GoDaddy, also hopes to see more “ block themes supporting post formats SOON.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Head of WP Relations at Elementor, <a href=\"https://x.com/miriamschwab/status/1829058002520789443\">Miriam Schwab</a> dubbed it “The ultimate &#8220;data liberation&#8221; project” while Developer Advocate WPEngine <a href=\"https://x.com/dcook/status/1829204853790519320\">Damon Cook </a>speculated, “I wonder if there will be outcomes from this large migration that could overlap and help solve pieces of the Data Liberation project.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Product Designer <a href=\"https://x.com/ybhrdwj/status/1829030113402355723\">Yash Bhardwaj </a>was excited ”This will go down in history books similar to some ancient empire conquering another.”&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://x.com/nickweisser/status/1829461378588950606\">Nick Weisser</a> of Openstream is optimistic “This would represent a significant increase in the market share of #WordPress, pushing it from around 43% to over 60%?”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I’m sure no one foresaw these developments when Jeff Chandler wrote “<a href=\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-to-be-more-tumblr-like\">WordPress To Be More Tumblr Like</a>” in 2010.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><br /></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 02 Sep 2024 17:18:17 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:37;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"WPTavern: State of CSS 2024 Survey Now Open\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=160779\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:54:\"https://wptavern.com/state-of-css-2024-survey-now-open\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2802:\"<p>The annual <a href=\"https://dev.to/sachagreif/the-2024-state-of-css-survey-is-now-open-4o5h\">State of CSS 2024</a> Survey is officially open. The survey aims to explore the “world of styles and selectors to try and identify upcoming trends, and figure out what features and tools to learn next.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Organized by Devographics, with support from contributors, translators, and volunteers, the survey is open to everyone. CSS users are encouraged to <a href=\"https://survey.devographics.com/en-US/survey/state-of-css/2024\">take the survey </a>by September 7, 2024.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This year’s survey introduces several new features and takes around 15-20 minutes to complete, with all questions being optional. The survey covers 11 key topics, including Layout, Shapes and Graphics, Colors, Interactions, Accessibility, and a concluding ‘About You’ section.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Since its launch in 2019, the survey has grown in popularity, with 9,190 developers participating last year. Some insights from the previous survey include:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Most participants were from the USA, followed by Germany and the UK.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>61.3% of respondents identified as male, 7.7% as female, and 1.4% as non-binary or gender non-conforming.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Bootstrap and Tailwind CSS topped the list in terms of usage, while Tailwind CSS and PureCSS led in retention.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>CSS was primarily used for web apps, blogs, and marketing sites.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Subgrid was the most commented feature, Open Props the technology with the highest percentage of returning users and Panda the tool most mentioned in freeform questions.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>The survey data is valuable for browser vendors, influencing their focus areas and roadmaps. Rachel Andrew, content lead for web.dev and developer.chrome.com at Google, <a href=\"https://web.dev/blog/state-of-css-2024\">shared </a>that the State of CSS survey is one of the methods they use to learn what&#8217;s important to the developers. “These surveys let you tell us exactly what you are using, and what you want to use but can&#8217;t due to bugs or lack of support. They help us to see the places where more learning materials might be helpful, or which things we should prioritize for implementation in the browser.”, she said. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sacha Greif mentioned that this year, the team aims to release the results within weeks after the survey closes. The next surveys on the schedule are the <a href=\"https://github.com/Devographics/surveys/issues/235\">State of HTML 2024</a> (September 10), the <a href=\"https://github.com/Devographics/surveys/issues/243\">State of React 2024</a> (October 10), and the <a href=\"https://github.com/Devographics/surveys/issues/227\">State of JavaScript 2024</a> (November 10).</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 02 Sep 2024 14:38:04 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:38;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:67:\"WordPress.org blog: WP Briefing: Episode 85: WordPress in Education\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?post_type=podcast&p=17643\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/09/episode-85-wordpress-in-education/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14022:\"<p>Discover why WordPress is becoming a cornerstone in student education. In this episode of WordPress Briefing, host Josepha Haden Chomphosy explores the vital role of WordPress in the school curriculum and how it equips students with essential skills for thriving in their future careers.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Credits</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Host:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chanthaboune/\">Josepha Haden Chomphosy</a><br />Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dustinhartzler/\">Dustin Hartzler</a><br />Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiarce/\">Javier Arce</a><br />Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjmcsherry/\">Brett McSherry</a><br />Song: Fearless First by Kevin MacLeod</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Notes</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2021/10/episode-17-wordpressing-your-way-to-digital-literacy/\">WordPress Briefing Episode 17: WordPressing Your Way to Digital Literacy</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wpcampus.org/\">WPCampus</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://events.wordpress.org/managua/2024/wordpress-youth-day\">WordPress Youth Day 2024</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://events.wordpress.org/kerala/2024/youthcamp-kozhikode/\">WordPress YouthCamp 2024</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://events.wordpress.org/uganda/2024/competition/\">Uganda Website Projects Competition 2024</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://events.wordpress.org/masaka/2024/wordpress-showcase/\">WordPress in Education Showcase</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://events.wordpress.org/skopje/2024/wordcamp-youth-hackathon/\">WordCamp Youth Hackathon</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/\">Make WordPress Training Team</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn WordPress</a>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/courses/\">Learn WordPress &#8211; Courses</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/lessons/\">Learn WordPress &#8211; Lessons</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Small List of Big Things</strong>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/schedule/\">The WordCamp US schedule</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/project/2024/08/16/wordpress-contributor-mentorship-program-cohort-3-2024-q4-call-for-mentees-mentors/\">WordPress Contributor Mentorship Program Cohort (#3)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/project/2024/08/19/ramping-up-wordpress-on-youtube/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Ramping up WordPress on YouTube</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/08/06/important-call-to-action-help-us-reactivate-inactive-meetup-groups-by-sept-16/\">Important Call to Action: Help Us Reactivate Inactive Meetup Groups by Sept 16</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Have a question you’d like answered? Submit them to&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:wpbriefing@WordPress.org\">WPBriefing@WordPress.org</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<span id=\"more-17643\"></span>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project, some insight into the community that supports it, and get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks. I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Here we go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:28] (Music intro)</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:39] <strong>Josepha:</strong> It&#8217;s been a while since I talked to you about the digital divide. In case you&#8217;re a brand new listener, check out episode 17, and actually everyone, just go check out episode 17 because bridging the digital divide, teaching people how to embrace technology fully and how to make it work for you, is one of the primary motivators of my decisions in WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:02] <strong>Josepha:</strong> WordPress&#8217;s unique position as both a tool that&#8217;s ubiquitous in its use and a community that is all-encompassing in its skill set means that if you know a bit about how open source works, you can use it as a tool to learn digital literacy and practice technical skills. Even though this is one of my primary motivators, I have never actually succeeded at getting WordPress into schools.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s not for lack of trying, it&#8217;s not for lack of interest from the community; it&#8217;s more that it&#8217;s hard to fit into curriculum-based learning. After all, we&#8217;ve had ways to learn WordPress for as long as we&#8217;ve had ways to use WordPress. It&#8217;s just that it takes a long time to design instructional material, even when you know the content like the back of your hand.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And open source stuff just moves really quickly. However, that didn&#8217;t stop us from spending years refining the content that we do have into the learning pathways you can now find on learn.WordPress.org. If you&#8217;re an educator, you can use those almost out of the box. But if you&#8217;ve got learners in your home and want to make a case for why their school should bring a little WordPress based digital literacy into the classroom, I&#8217;ve got five good arguments for you for why they should give us a chance.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:16] <strong>Josepha:</strong> The first one, as I mentioned before, WordPress as a tool is practically ubiquitous. It powers a significant portion of the web, so it&#8217;s easy to find examples to aspire to and content creators for guidance. And given that it is so prevalent, knowing WordPress ensures that students are well prepared for a wide range of job opportunities in the digital industry, making them more competitive in the job market overall.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Second is that WordPress is a free and open source piece of software. In our case, it&#8217;s free in both meanings of the word. Free, as in no cost and no constraints. That means students have freedom to experiment with the code and with the design, which gives you that feeling of joyous experimentation that a lot of us had at the start of the web before there were CMSs. It taps into a different kind of creativity that results in technical curiosity and, ultimately, growth.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:13] <strong>Josepha:</strong> The third thing is that the best way to learn WordPress happens to also align with the concept of project-based learning, which is one of the best methods for learning in general. I believe that to be true. I&#8217;m not an educator, but I really believe that project-based learning is the best way to learn complex topics. It&#8217;s an active way to learn. You get a bunch of tactical skills in there, like development, alongside the basics of good collaboration, critical thinking, and problem-solving. Obviously, these are all skills that are directly valuable in the workplace, but I have also found them profoundly useful in my day-to-day existence. You know, as a human participating in a society.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Number four is a bit of a spicy nugget, but WordPress is essential for creating and managing digital content, which is table stakes right now. That&#8217;s a foundational skill for most web dev jobs, but also marketing, journalism, and communications. And beyond that, everyone knows that your best leaders are the people who can tell a compelling story based on the information they have. The ones who can connect the dots in a way that makes it matter to you. This is a spicy, of course, because of the confusing do si do that AI is taking with the content landscape. But I believe that people are the best storytellers, and stories are what keep us all moving forward.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:34] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And then the final thing is that there is a whole wide world of open source. There are so many products and projects that use an open source license, right? Like you, listener, I can guarantee I don&#8217;t even know who you are, but I can guarantee that you use at least one item a day that has some open source thing in it. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And most of these open source projects are international. They&#8217;re developed on a global scale across numerous countries by people with various levels of education. And it&#8217;s this vastness of scope, this broadness of connection, that will give you, give your student, a chance to understand how to work across cultures, how to build something that is more than the sum of its parts, and how to embrace the concept of altruistic generosity that leads to a triumph of the commons.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:26] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Because just as I&#8217;m sure that you, a complete stranger, touched something open source today, I&#8217;m equally sure that the people we bring into open source will be able to solve the biggest problems of tomorrow with better connections and more skill because of what we taught them here today.&nbsp;If all of this sounds compelling, but you&#8217;re not ready to, like, go into your school administrator, your superintendent, your local, I don&#8217;t know, education board.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If this felt right, but you don&#8217;t know for sure, and you want a little bit more experience with it before you go advocate for it yourself, I will have in the show notes over on WordPress.org, I&#8217;ll have in the show notes of this podcast a series of events that are coming up. We have a couple that have already gone by WPCampus, I think just wrapped up a few weeks ago. But there are a handful of events that are happening across the world that is specific to youth wanting to learn technology, working with WordPress to get that done.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:26] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And then educators as well. You can also always stop by the Training Team and ask them questions about how this all works, why it works together their philosophies behind their learning pathways. There are so many ways that you can get answers to the questions that you might have about why open source, and especially WordPress, is worth trying to get your students exposed to and working in and contributing to.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:52] (Music interlude)</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:59] <strong>Josepha:</strong> That brings me, now that I have finished with my little soapbox, to our small list of big things. Gosh, I hope you all missed hearing teeny tiny rants about WordPress and open source from me over the break that I took in August, but before you respond to that, feel free to respond to me in any comments. Let&#8217;s first get to the small list of big things. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:23] <strong>Josepha:</strong> First up, the full WordCamp US schedule has been released, so if you&#8217;re planning to attend that, you can take a look and get your schedule, your personal schedule, for the week figured out. But if you&#8217;re still on the fence, there might be a speaker or two in there that tips the scales for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The next thing is that the WordPress Contributor Mentorship Program Cohort number three, the third one, will happen in Q4 this year. The call for mentors and mentees has just been completed. But you should keep an eye out on September 9th, I think. So, at the end of this week, the final list will be announced. This program has been excellent for mentors to give back to the community while enhancing their leadership skills. And the mentees who participate have received personalized guidance and a chance to develop skills and network within the community, and a good portion of them continue to contribute to WordPress itself and other open source projects that we rely on as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:20] <strong>Josepha:</strong> The third thing is that YouTube has been an essential platform for sharing complex ideas with a diverse audience. And our WordPress YouTube channel is no exception. It has been slowly warming itself up. We have a team that&#8217;s warming up the content over there. WordCamp information gets on it now. But in keeping with our commitment to meeting the needs of both current and future users, just making sure that we meet people where they are, I&#8217;m excited to announce that Jamie Marsland will be taking on the management of the WordPress YouTube channel. So for anyone who&#8217;s attending WordCamp US, stop by and say hello to Jamie in person.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then, finally, I have a really important call to action. So, we are still working to reactivate our meetup groups. The Community Team is driving that charge, and they need your help to reactivate any group that&#8217;s inactive. Last month, a list of groups was shared and marked for removal from our chapter program. And we requested responses by August 5th to keep those groups active, but due to the summer holiday, we have extended it a little bit. We&#8217;ve extended it to September 16th, which, if I am remembering my calendar correctly, is a couple weeks from now. So if your group is on that pending closure list, email support@wordcamp.org to let us know if you want to reactivate the group or if you are ready to step down and have a new leader show up, and we can help you figure out how to get that done. Either way, if you&#8217;re on the list, email us let us know what your hopes and, dreams, and plans are there.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><span>[00:09:58]&nbsp;<strong>Josepha:</strong>&nbsp;That, my friends, is your small list of big things.</span> Don&#8217;t forget to follow us on your favorite podcast app or subscribe directly on WordPress.org/news. You&#8217;ll get a friendly reminder whenever there&#8217;s a new episode. If you liked what you heard today, share it with a fellow WordPresser or future WordPresser. But if you have any questions about what you heard, then you can share those with me at WPbriefing@WordPress.org. I am your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. I&#8217;m so glad to be back. Thank you for tuning in today for the WordPress Briefing, and I&#8217;ll see you again in a couple of weeks.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:29] (Music outro)</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 02 Sep 2024 12:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:39;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:62:\"Do The Woo Community: The Soft Relaunch of the Do the Woo Blog\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=85204\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:66:\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/the-soft-relaunch-of-the-do-the-woo-blog/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1586:\"<p>Well, you may have noticed a subtle change on the site here. Maybe more specifically the last few days. In a nutshell, the <strong><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/\">blog</a></strong> is back.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now you may be asking, &#8220;A blog? Is that news?&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, in an episode a bit ago, <strong><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/unpacking-blogging-a-blogstorm-with-ronald-gijsel-and-bobwp/\">Ronald and I chatted about this</a> during our Blogstorm</strong> and shared what it means to us and what we plan on doing with this blog. The fact the site was sans blog for sometime, well, that&#8217;s another story. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Initially you will see that there are already <strong><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/\">some posts here</a></strong> that were, well, moved over to BobWP.com and now have returned here, their original home.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Why a soft relaunch?</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Two reasons. First, still getting a lot of things in place on the backend. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Secondly, we are now into September and people are winding down from summer. Plus we want to make it more official during <strong><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/\">WordCampUS 2024</a></strong>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s that simple. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>We have a lot of plans for this blog and to model it after our podcast, a blog for the community, by the community. And as we move along, and share more, you will have a better understanding why we think this is kind of a &#8220;big deal&#8221;.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In the meantime, keep your eyes and ears open as we tell it all during WordCampUS.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 02 Sep 2024 10:15:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:40;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:111:\"Do The Woo Community: Scaling WooCommerce: Insights on High-Performance Order Storage (HPOS) with Vedanshu Jain\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85448\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:107:\"https://dothewoo.io/scaling-woocommerce-insights-on-high-performance-order-storage-hpos-with-vedanshu-jain/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:58381:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-49 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p class=\"has-secondary-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-9acf640b7ba38a84a982fc35d618387f\">This show is sponsored by&#8230;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-48 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-13 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-47 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-27 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-46 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"1650\" height=\"1650\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/avalara-logo-_dtw.png?resize=1650%2C1650&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-75400\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-container-content-28\"><strong><a href=\"https://developer.avalara.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Avalara</a></strong>: help developers make sure their Woo projects are tax compliance done right with Avalara&#8217;s API. Visit their extensive developer resources today.</p>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p>Marcel:<br />Well, hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Woo Have Chat. Today with me, the one and only Mike. Hello, Mike. I was trying to think of a fancy way to introduce you today, but…</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />That&#8217;s what you think.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />That’s as fancy as I can get. Yes. How are you doing, man? All good?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />I&#8217;m good, I&#8217;m good. Monday morning. Got to do some work today using New Relic to troubleshoot WooCommerce. So maybe there’ll be some stuff to talk about with that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />Oh wow. Alright, today’s a very special episode. We are excited to introduce Vedanshu Jain. He&#8217;s a senior software engineer and a key contributor to the WooCommerce project at Automattic. I guess for the last six years, but he&#8217;ll correct me if I did the math correctly. Lately, he has been concentrating on scaling and performance. He plays a pivotal role in leading the HPOS project. Also, we did talk about the pronunciation of HPOS, if that’s the correct way to pronounce it or not. We’re going to be corrected in a minute. He’s also worked on numerous performance enhancements and has helped many merchants fine-tune their sites to handle greater scale. So let&#8217;s dive into his insights. Welcome to the show.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />Hello, hello. Very happy to be here. So yeah, I have been working for six years now at Automattic, which is more than half a decade. So yeah, that’s a lot. HPOS, I guess I pronounce it HPOS, but I do not think we have an official pronunciation. So I suppose as long as we can communicate, it’s fine, but it can get a little bit hard to figure out what you’re talking about. H-P-O-S, it’s all the same. No problem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />Right? Well, there are many ways to pronounce it, and most of the people we talk to about HPOS or HPOS, they go and say, &#8220;What is that?&#8221; Regardless of the way that you pronounce it. So I guess you’re right, we need to explain to people what that is. Would you mind explaining very quickly? I know we did an episode about this previously, but there might be some people who don’t know what we’re talking about and have the exact same response to HPOS: What the hell is that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />Yeah, so HPOS is basically High Performance Order Storage. What we did with that project is that WooCommerce by default used to store order data in posts and post meta tables using custom post types, which is a feature in WordPress. It’s a great feature, and we have been quite successful users of that feature, like WooCommerce and many other plugins in general. But orders specifically can grow really fast. For a successful site, you can have hundreds, thousands, and millions of orders, and then storing them all in posts and post meta tables means that different operations on the site are going to compete with all this bulk of orders for all their normal operations, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because it’s the same table, it’s the same data storage. So what HPOS does is it stores just the order data in different tables so that your posts and post meta tables are free to serve your post content, to serve the site’s content, products, attributes, and all those other things. So in a sense, it makes your site faster, but maybe that’s not a super accurate way to say it. I think a more accurate way to say it is that it’ll make your site more scalable. So when you’re receiving this bulk of orders, your site will not be slowed down just because there are millions of entries in the post meta table due to orders or just because of the orders that you’re receiving. So it sets your site up for easier scaling for your growth, and yeah, that’s what the whole project is about.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />Great. Do you think this is for all merchants out there using WooCommerce? Is this for just people who have a hundred thousand orders? Is this for people who are just starting out and need to activate this no matter what? What is your recommendation?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />So if you are starting out, I 100% recommend that you start with HPOS because you are going to hit growth—or at least you want to hit growth—or at least we hope that you’re going to hit that growth, and then you will need it. So it doesn’t make sense when you’re starting out to not start with HPOS because everything else is the same; everything else is equivalent. You will have very similar interfaces; you have all the major plugins already providing support with HPOS, so you have the same experience. So for the shops that are starting out, I highly recommend starting with HPOS, which is also the default. If you set up a new site with WooCommerce now, you will start on HPOS. Additionally, for shops that are hitting growth or shops that are already using custom post types because they have been in business for some time now, I do recommend that you consider switching to HPOS whenever you can because if you don’t—or let’s say you don’t have time now—then when you hit growth, you would want to do it, and then you would do it in a bit of a stressful situation because orders are coming in, the site is slowing down, and now you want to start planning it. It would be a bit more stressful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So if you can plan it early, that’s really great because that’s what we are trying to get everyone towards, which is just an HPOS-based future. We do want people to scale well. We do want people to have great experiences with WooCommerce at any stage of growth. So yeah, I recommend HPOS if you start out, but also if you already have a shop that’s on custom post types, plan your migration when you can plan it without stress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />Right. Most people don’t have HPOS activated by default, I guess I would say. And most people are also afraid to activate it if they already have a store and it’s a big store. I didn’t want to talk too much about this, but I think it’s a good way just again to remind people about how great of a feature this is. Would you still recommend people to invest a small amount of time in activating it? And would you say it is hard or very easy to activate HPOS?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />We do understand the complexity involved in it. So you’re basically on a live site, you’re basically replacing one of the key components of that site. You’re basically replacing where very critical data is being stored live. Understandably, it’s a bit daunting and intimidating. The good thing is we have in-built rollback mechanisms, which means that you can switch to HPOS, you can try it out, you can verify if it works fine. In a situation where it does not work fine, the rollback is possible. So from the interface itself, you can switch back to post tables, and then everything would be as it was before. So we do have some safeguards. We do have some fail-safe mechanisms, which basically mean that even if you found some issue or even if you find that you do not have the time anymore or even if you—or for whatever reason—want to switch back, you can.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The main thing is that you do try to make some time here and give it a shot. So we also have a guide on the WooCommerce blog which tells you some steps that, if you’re running a high-volume site, what you can do or the series of steps that you can perform, some basic testing, some testing on staging, and then how you disable. So when you switch to HPOS for the first time from a shop that is using post storage, we would be writing data to both post and HPOS tables. So there is a series of steps that you can disable this sync methodologically. So this way, basically, you would have some ramp from post to HPOS, and if something goes wrong, you can go back to post again, and that guide will detail all that—what you can do, what you should do, what you should test for, and what you should expect.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />Actually, the reason why we got to Vedanshu in the first place was a very interesting one because Mike had this client who had this very particular use case, and he was asking me, &#8220;Do you know somebody?&#8221; And I did know somebody else that works at Automattic and managed a lot of the WooCommerce-related projects. It was very interesting to ask Darren about, &#8220;Hey, we have this particular issue. Mike has this client. We would like to talk to somebody who can give us an answer, or at least a very comforting answer, about the way that we can solve this particular problem.&#8221; Mike, do you want to share a little bit about this story?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />Yeah, we mentioned it briefly in the first podcast, and it’s a Shark Tank client who gets a lot of orders. They had moved to HPOS but still had the backward compatibility thing enabled. I was doing… They wanted a backend troubleshooting project done, and they were having weird delays, and I noticed this consistent query that was showing up that was taking 40 seconds. I remember asking you on the way to go play squash, Marcel, and you were like, &#8220;Oh yeah, those are the HPOS tables. They shouldn’t be taking that long.&#8221; And I was like, &#8220;Yeah, the whole benefit of introducing HPOS was that search queries and things like that were supposed to get way faster.&#8221; I think you had a client as well who had a similar challenge, and we were trying to gather data. I tried rewriting the queries to make them more precise</p>\n\n\n\n<p>so they weren’t using likes or wildcards and that kind of stuff, and it still didn’t really make that much of a difference.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So then we went on this adventure to figure out who can help us answer this. This is not what was supposed to happen. Then we met Vedanshu at the WooCommerce party in Turin, and you said, &#8220;Oh, there’s this new feature with these indexes that we are adding in WooCommerce 9.00 beta 2, which should speed that up significantly.&#8221; I think a week or two later, I managed to get it tested, and the same queries ended up taking a hundred milliseconds, and I was like, &#8220;Ha, it works!&#8221; And Vedanshu was so confident at the party—I don’t know if you remember—he was like, &#8220;Yeah, yeah, just install this. It should be way better.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />I do remember, yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />Marcel and I were both a little bit skeptical, we’re not going to lie, because we were like, &#8220;How is it going to go from 40 seconds to anything acceptable? There’s a long way down to two or three seconds.&#8221; So yeah, we were very pleasantly surprised to see that it made things significantly faster. We were curious about how you go into researching, developing, proposing, and sort of testing. That’s a major change because building a separate index for all of the order emails and stuff like that so it’s basically instant—that doesn’t sound like it’s something you just snap your fingers and it magically gets done. So I’m curious what that process is like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />So I think for the context, you’re talking about the HPOS text search, which is basically full-text search in MySQL. This is something that we wanted to do for a long time, even before HPOS, but the structure, but our way of storing data where we would store data in the post meta tables, was a blocker for us to do it because you cannot add this index on the entirety of the post meta table because it would make your space requirements for the database or RAM requirements go way up. So I guess for research, even before HPOS, one of the things that we researched is what would be possible because just changing the database structure without leveraging the features of that structure is not going to just speed up the site. But what you would get with this sort of architecture change is basically collateral gains, which means that even just by changing that data structure, nothing happens by default. You would need to write those queries, you would need to build those in, and you would need to do some work on top of it to actually take advantage of this new structure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So with that in mind, we decided to have this addressable separately so that we can apply an FTS index on it. So yeah, I guess it depends on doing some planning ahead on what you want to do with this feature once it’s out, once it’s built. This is something that a normalized structure would allow you to do, is that you can add more indexes, you can add very specific indexes on the data structure or on the query requirements that you have. FTS is one example, but there are some more. For example, for many shops, they might be querying some specific column more often than the other ones. Even if WooCommerce does not provide a default index on that column specifically, the merchant can add it, or the developers can add it. So for research, we take a look at what we can do right now, what are the things that are blocking.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So even with post meta, you can scale a site quite well. You have been in business for quite a while, and you would know that even with posts and post meta, you would have experienced that you can scale a site quite well. It’s just that there are some things where this structure would start becoming a blocker. There are some features that you cannot explore anymore. You can still work around it. For example, you could stream the order data to Elasticsearch and provide the search from there. You could do many workarounds, but it’s not straightforward, it’s not simple enough, it’s not something that works out of the box. So this is that we actually did figure out what we wanted. Even if you see the issue—like the issue for the FTS index—it opened two years back when HPOS was still in planning.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We opened the issue then that this is something that we would do once HPOS has rolled out. There are some more enhancements that we still have in mind, and hopefully, we would be able to roll those out soon enough. But yeah, we try to look at what is currently possible, what is currently not possible with the existing structure, what are the blockers, and try to figure out how we go from there. But FTS and index is something that’s been on our mind for a bit now. I think for the WordPress core project too, they also have an issue open to add FTS indexes for post content and the main post table so that you are able to search post content way more faster than you can right now. But yeah…</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />How would you test something like that? So let’s say, for example, you get your team together and you decide, &#8220;Oh, let’s do these indexes, this full-text index thing, and we have now a new table, and we’re going to turn this on,&#8221; and now you go, &#8220;Yeah, but first to make a decision, I would imagine that you have to base it on results, and you have to have some data that will back up the decision about activating or proposing for everybody to activate this.&#8221; I know how well most people probably have their MySQL database settings set up in a way that it’s possible to use it, but how would you go about measuring the success of something like this and say with confidence now for everybody that this is going to benefit everyone?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />So for testing, the primary testbed is some of the test sites that we have, that we host on. So basically they’re hosted on WordPress.com. Some of those sites have about 1 million orders or 600,000 orders, and we primarily test against… So that’s the first step in feature development. We would build these queries, we would manually create these indexes using direct MySQL queries, try to run queries, compare the differences, and see if it’s something that’s worthwhile to pursue. If it is, then we would try to build it into a feature, and then we would do this testing that we are doing right now. So currently, FTS indexes are marked as experimental. One of the things that currently actually blocks it from graduating, or sort of graduating away from experimental to enable by default, is that in some specific versions, we find that the results are inconsistent.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I do not recall exactly, but anyway, I think from MySQL version 8.2.0.24 to 8.2.0.31, you will see that the site will be unable to create this index because of a MySQL bug, which was then fixed in 8.2.0.35. Okay, so this is something we learned. Once we have this package, once we have this in experimental, we do not know how it’ll go. We got these reports that this person is not able to create this index on the site, we go and try to debug, and then we find out that okay, this is some MySQL bug, and you have to upgrade a MySQL version to actually have this working. So once you put a feature in experimental, we try to make some noise about it or try to have more people use it. Some people would have great experiences like you have, and then some people will find out some edge cases and report them back to us.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we would eventually graduate the feature when we are confident that we have resolved most of the edge cases. We know that this feature will not break sites just on upgrading. We know that this feature will not break sites just on enabling it. So this is the same process we followed for HPOS. We had an experimental mode for quite a long time. We made a lot of noise about it. We requested people to try it out. Some people had great experiences, some people reported bugs, and we tried to fix them as much as we can. Eventually, you’ll see that once you release something as experimental, you get a lot of bug reports soon. Depending on how big the feature is, you will get bug reports very soon, and then they will start to drop off. Once they sort of stabilize, once you have fixed all the high-priority bugs, you can mark that feature as stable. This is something that we did for HPOS; this is something that we are doing for FTS indexes. But actually, FTS indexes are quite stable. There are some edge cases—there is another edge case around phone numbers, which it is not able to search properly, which is something that I actually have on my list to look into today. But other than that, it seems quite stable. Hopefully, we will be able to graduate it soon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />I guess also indexes are a feature of the database engine. It’s not something or some code that you guys wrote and are experimenting with like it is with HPOS, right? You sort of trust the engineers who created the database engine on it working as it should be, as it was created for. I imagine it would be kind of easier to make the decision in terms of activating that as opposed to HPOS, which is—or HPOS, I’m going to call it HPOS for the rest of the podcast—just shorter. It’s shorter. It’s the way that we’ve been talking about it the whole time, so it’s very hard for me to change it. Where you have this synchronization</p>\n\n\n\n<p>going on, you have important data copying. I imagine that is a much harder update to do than just the index, right? Let’s imagine the following: You were sitting down in front of a computer, you were talking to some friends, and somebody came up and said, &#8220;Hey, I have this great idea to build something for WordPress that is an e-commerce platform, and let’s call it, for example, WooCommerce.&#8221; What would you architect differently in terms of the database in comparison to today? So if you were to be able to, at day zero, decide on the architecture of the database, what would you do differently?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />Okay, so that’s a very interesting question. I also wanted to talk a little bit about what you said earlier about the FTS indexes. So FTS index is one of MySQL’s features. You can do a CREATE INDEX statement and have it enabled, but it’s a little bit more complex because it has a lot of tuning parameters. For example, you can specify… Right now we have configured it to work on natural language, so it would split words based on spaces, apostrophes, and all the natural language separators. But you can also create just trigrams or n-grams. You can configure it to behave more similar to Elasticsearch. So there are some configuration parameters that you can play around with depending on the use case of your site. So this experimental time is also meant for us to figure out what the optimized state of tuning for that feature is, which we may end up changing based on the feedback that we get.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But otherwise, it’s much more stable than HPOS because we trust the developers of MySQL very much. It’s an extremely great piece of software. Right, okay. So if you think about the journey of WooCommerce, the CPT integration with custom post types gave it, in my opinion, a much-needed lift when it needed it. Developers understand custom post types; developers understand playing around with it, extending it, modifying its API. So integrating it with custom post types rather than building a new table from the start I think was a good decision—or at least in my opinion—because it allows you to, first of all, build it really quickly because then you do not have to create all these custom queries. You do not have to manage the caching around it. You do not have to do a lot of things. WordPress will do the heavy lifting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In fact, you don’t even need to create an admin interface. You don’t even need to worry about access controls, security, performance, and so many things that are just taken care of for you, including the programmatic API to access it. So it’s extremely powerful, and I think at that point, using custom post types even for orders was the right choice. For a new project, for everything new, if I were sitting in a friend circle—maybe we were at a campfire roasting some marshmallows—if someone tells me that we are doing this new thing, I would use as much existing functionality as I can, or at least… So depending on who you ask, depending on what developer you ask, this is probably going to change. I think for any product, there is no singular success path. For every product, it’s going to be different, and you can make a product work using all parts, or a product will not work even if you have the best architecture—it’s implementation details.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I don’t know, in my opinion, I would use WordPress features as much as I can and build custom functionality when I have to. But when you see this scale, unless WordPress starts coming in the way, I don’t think that I would engineer a feature to work around it or to bypass it. The other case is if the philosophy of what WordPress provides is completely different from what the feature intends to do, which it kind of is in the case of orders because they’re never going to be published to the world—the post is eventually supposed to be published to the world, an order will not. So it diverges from the philosophy a little bit, but then I would try to use as many WordPress features as I can because it would allow our team to start quickly, prototype directly on top of it, and then once the product is successful, then we can worry about scale. We can worry about what we want to do exactly—or, well, not what we want to do, but what’s the best structure for it and how do we support our customers who are growing very well, how do we support our clients who are doing very well, and we should not get in the way of their growth just for our growth.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />The biggest challenge we have with databases is their size, I would say. Right? How big of a deal is it to have gigantic table sizes? I don’t know. We deal with 4 million rows, 6 million rows in post meta sometimes. Is that a big deal? Is that not so much? What would you say?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />So disk storage is not that much of a concern as big of a concern as memory is—like available memory is. MySQL will try to load everything into memory. It’ll try to load all the indexes into memory, and if allowed, it would load everything, which is fine, which works great for the case that MySQL does for us. As a database designer, it means that our indexes are smart. We are not normalizing data too much. For example, in post meta, you have this meta key and meta value. This meta key is repeated thousands of times because every order is going to have the same meta keys, right? By converting it to columns, you’re reducing the amount that MySQL needs to load because—this is kind of oversimplifying—but it doesn’t need to load that string anymore. It knows that this is this column; it knows that this column is called whatever, and it knows all the values that belong to this column.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So the amount of data that MySQL will put into RAM decreases with this denormalization—it comes into play. I wouldn’t say that it doesn’t matter. I wouldn’t say that the space doesn’t matter, or I wouldn’t say that the size of the database doesn’t matter. It does matter. So first, with a bigger database, MySQL needs to have… With a denormalized database such as post meta, it would need to put more data into the RAM. But then also when it queries the data, it needs to scan through more rows; it needs to filter through more rows. So that also slows different parts of your site down. It’s a concern, but you can solve it in the sense that… One option is you can throw money at the server, but at some point, it gets tricky because there’s some limit to it, or that limit can hit really fast, really soon when the data explodes. So it’s a concern, but it’s not a concern when you’re starting up, when you’re developing this new product—or this is just my very subjective opinion. Many people will disagree with that—but it’ll definitely be a concern as you grow. It’ll definitely be a concern as you start to grow, as you start to acquire more customers or more data. And yeah, it would be a problem eventually.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />Hopefully… In Danish, we call those luxury problems. Hopefully, if you’re making that many orders, you’re also making money, and hopefully enough of that is profit to be able to allocate to solving this issue. So I’m curious, how much extra RAM is necessary for the FTS indexes on a site with a million orders? Is there any calculation or preparation people should do to make sure MySQL won’t crash because it runs out of memory?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />I actually tried to measure it during my testing, but I wasn’t able to. MySQL would always use the same amount of RAM, but I think that’s because of the testing conditions that I wanted. That’s mostly because I wasn’t able to create this testing condition where it would load more data. Maybe it was doing something behind the scenes that wasn’t observable, but I suppose that it would definitely need more RAM. It cannot… Even though just because I wasn’t able to observe it doesn’t mean that it’s not loading more RAM, but what it internally does is that it creates these words. For example, in your address, if you have, say, &#8220;221B Baker Street,&#8221; then it’ll have this row &#8220;221B,&#8221; it’ll have this row &#8220;Baker,&#8221; it would have this row &#8220;Street,&#8221; and then in each of these rows, it would store IDs of all the different order IDs where &#8220;221B,&#8221; &#8220;Baker,&#8221; or &#8220;Street&#8221; come in. So it’s not inefficient, it’s actually… It’s quite a good data structure, as we trust the developers of MySQL. It’s a pretty good data structure. It should have some additional RAM requirements, but I do not know what that is, or at least in my testing or in my research that I did, I wasn’t able to find this exact number that I can point out that this is what it’s going to need.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />If you were testing on WordPress.com too, that would make it more challenging—a big multisite, right? The database is shared?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />No, so for the RAM, I was actually testing it on my local setup to actually see how much the requirement increases so that I can actually figure out the memory used by that exact process. So that’s why I said that it should have some additional RAM requirements, but I wasn’t able to actually establish how much. I hope that MySQL would have some documentation somewhere that tells you this, but it would also really depend on how different your database is. For example, if all the customers live on Baker</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Street, it’s not going to be a lot because it would find those repetitions. If your customers live all across the world with different addresses, the natural language… If it’s not able to index those words properly, if everything is different, then it would have a lot more requirement than it would by just when the addresses are more normalized. So maybe the RAM requirements cannot be as straightforwardly established as we can do it for other data structures, but it’s efficient, I hope. I guess, all that we have seen.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />Ideally, if you have a database that is two gigabytes, you have two gigabytes of RAM, right? Just load everything into memory, it’ll work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />But then, Mike, you did test it out, right? Did you notice anything about how much additional requirement it imposed on your server?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />So on this particular server, it’s huge—64 gigs of RAM—and there’s a lot of it allocated. I think over 30 gigs of RAM is allocated to MySQL, so we didn’t need to make any adjustments basically. One of the reasons I moved them to that host was so that they had plenty of room for growth because they get so many orders per day, and their live site and staging site share the same server. So I would’ve had to get them to buy an extra airplane because it’s a dedicated physical server. It’s a bit more complicated than just spinning up an extra instance. But I’m having a meeting with them actually this week, so if I get any… When I told them I was going to speak with you, they were really excited because stores at this level… When they don’t want to move away to something like Shopify or something else, when things are working, their team is well-versed in WooCommerce and is trained in it now. So they don’t want to migrate away. Having someone who is very much working inside of core and knows what new developments are on the horizon helps give them a lot of confidence that WooCommerce can scale and can handle their multimillion-dollar business. Those are probably the kind of customers WooCommerce wants to keep happy, you would think, for the benefits of keeping the project alive for the very long term, so that it fits customers of all sizes—just starting out and those who have the luxury problem of that kind of growth and success.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />Do you see a future where WooCommerce would be a standalone version of WordPress?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />Currently, I think it’s too coupled. So anything can happen in the future—I won’t say that nothing is impossible—but I think currently WooCommerce is too coupled with WordPress to be standalone anytime soon, at least. We rely on WordPress to… For example, the product relies on WordPress a lot because they are a post type that does get published. But then we rely on WordPress for role-based access control. We rely on WordPress for the whole admin backend. We rely on WordPress for a lot of things. I think there is a very nice future for WooCommerce within the WordPress ecosystem and for the WordPress ecosystem itself. But I would not say that there would be a standalone WooCommerce soon enough, although I do not see it immediately, at least.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />Yeah, the reason I ask has to do with what we were talking about and having these bigger clients come in. It’s hard for us as freelancers, for example, to come up with a big client and say to them why they wouldn’t migrate away from WooCommerce because they know that the concept of WooCommerce is… It is a plugin that is for WordPress, and WordPress is content management software that is more for… Well, it’s kind of strange to say that it is for blog posts and for running a blog, but it’s for so many things right now. But basically, what people understand when they have to make a decision is that they have these dedicated platforms that are just solely there for the purpose of having an online store. And then you have something that you attach to another thing, and that enables you to sell your products online as well. So it kind of makes it a little bit harder for us to sell the idea. Although honestly, WooCommerce is so popular right now that most of these big ones don’t even ask those questions anymore. But there are some numbers that say that WooCommerce is mostly spread in smaller stores than in bigger stores. So for people to make the jump and to decide about WooCommerce, wouldn’t it be better if you would be saying that you are installing WooCommerce and not WordPress? You know what I mean?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />So this is something for the marketing team to really answer, but I don’t know. I’ve always seen WordPress as an asset because I understand that even for a person who is primarily here for commerce, who primarily wants to use WooCommerce for commerce, they would eventually want to publish their product. They would eventually want to have… Or maybe not everyone, but in a majority of cases, they would want to publish their products. They would want to do SEO on them. They would want to have good SEO for their site. They would want to have their site look beautiful, use nice themes. They would want to have a membership area, have customers’ accounts, my account pages, and all of those things. They are something that we derive from WordPress. Even if you take a look at a WooCommerce and WordPress installation as WooCommerce first, there are a lot of things that are essential for a commerce shop that we derive from WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The features that WooCommerce uses from WordPress are not small; it’s huge. We pretty much use almost all the functionality that WordPress has to offer. An e-commerce site will pretty much use all the functionality that WordPress has to offer. I think that’s an asset, right? Because not just the functionality, but it also means that there are more experts in the ecosystem. There is more knowledge in the ecosystem, there is a bigger community. There is so much that we gain from WordPress. If we had to make WooCommerce standalone, we would have to implement all these things again that we currently just get from WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />It would have to be a fork of WordPress and then put WooCommerce on top of it, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />Yep, yep. Something like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />I like to ask these questions that are challenging, that you haven’t had time to think about them before. I think that’s the most fun about it. If you had a magic wand, what would you change in WooCommerce?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />That’s an interesting one. So I do not have a magic wand—I really wish I did. As someone working on performance, I feel that currently people have to understand the platform a bit as they grow. For example, they would change servers, maybe they would migrate to different machines, they would integrate different technologies. There are some milestones that happen as you grow. This is the same, right? Migrating to a different server or a bigger server, integrating Elasticsearch, integrating some different technologies, figuring out if you’re at a stage where you want to look into horizontal scaling, and things like that. If I had a magic wand, I think I would make this super clear or I would have it done magically that, &#8220;Okay, now I need this,&#8221; so this just happens. &#8220;I need this,&#8221; this just happens. So again, this is with a caveat that this is my limited perspective, but I think people are not that worried about additional cost as they grow because as Mike says, it’s a luxury problem. You want to have these problems, but having to replatform is annoying. It’s a distraction away from your main business. It’s something… It’s a chore. So I wish that we had something that just scales you up as you go, figures out where you want to go, and just takes you there and everything is just perfect all the time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />Some notices appearing on the dashboard saying, &#8220;Now that you have a thousand customers, this would be advisable,&#8221; or… Well, who knows? Maybe AI will come in and help some of these clients scale a little bit better because some of these issues are repeatable, so they’re all the same for all clients. It’s kind of like there should already be some tool out there that allows us to give some automatic tips on how to improve the store and stuff like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />Maybe you just click on a button and you are now on the server that you need at that point in your growth journey.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />Well, to my defense, I would say we need two, but one is an automatic one and the other is &#8220;hire an expert.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />For the &#8220;hire an expert.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do you find that clients take for granted the technological resource portion of running a store? I find in my own experience that it’s like buying a car. They buy the car and they’re like, &#8220;This should just run forever, no matter how many people I’m putting in it, how much crap I want to transport.&#8221; And when things stop working, they get very confused. They’re like, &#8220;What do you mean?&#8221; And I say, &#8220;Well, you’ve got to maintain the thing. If your family has doubled in size, maybe you want to get a bigger car.&#8221; It’s something that I find that non-technical store owners just… It’s like a shock for them. Some elasticity is required in growth and rebuilding and stuff. I was wondering if you found something similar.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />I can understand that as a customer or as a user of the product, you may think that way. But as you mentioned, it’s not that simple. In India, there’s this thing called—we call it Chota</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Hathi. It’s basically a small pickup truck, the miniature version of a pickup truck, and you can use it to haul and carry stuff from your warehouse to your frontend stores or whatever it is. When you start, you buy this Chota Hathi, and then you can outgrow it as you grow. Suddenly it’s not enough. You have to make too many rounds; you cannot carry that much stuff anymore, or you need to carry much more stuff. So you need to buy a bigger one. You need to buy a proper pickup truck. You need to eventually buy a fleet of them when you get super successful. It’s the same with WooCommerce as well. You can start with a very small investment, and then you can grow it as much as you can or as much as you want to. This is something that we are actually trying to… So we actually just published a blog post on, I think, Friday. It’s called &#8220;Scaling with WooCommerce,&#8221; which helps you with this path that when you start out, the principle of WooCommerce is that you can run it on a very small basic server, but it’ll take you to wherever you need to go with the help of magic wands, which we call experts in the community. That’s the main principle. This engine and this truck bed, that’s all you need, and you can add more of these if you need it. You can buy a bigger one, or… All sorts of vertical scaling, horizontal scaling, integrating other technologies, or whatever milestones there are, you can do that. That’s the focus from our side. But that said, I also understand that, &#8220;I buy a small truck and I expect it to carry everything for me forever.&#8221; The difference is that in a physical shop, it’s easy to see that you cannot fit more than 400 kgs or some unit of it more than that on this small truck. So you need to buy a new one, or you need to buy a bigger one, or you need to buy more of them. It’s not super clear in software because, in software, you click and something happens. So that’s something that is a perception that we want to tackle, but you will see that as you grow, even if you want a bigger truck or even if you want a fleet, it’ll give you a very nice return. You will be in charge of everything, and it’ll give you a much better return on your investment as you grow your business because these are the things that you are using to grow the business. So we are trying to change the perception of it. But yeah, I do understand that with software… Someone at least, even me, I just download it and it should take me to the moon, but that’s going to need a bit more work than that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />That’s awesome. We do have a lot of experience with customers like that, who just expect things to work. And also the other way around—they don’t expect to pay that much because they thought it should work in the first place. Sometimes we go in and say, &#8220;Yeah, but this needs fine-tuning and this and that.&#8221; And they say, &#8220;Yeah, but then I have to spend money, and it doesn’t make any sense.&#8221; Well, it does make a lot of sense. In the blog post you were just talking about, &#8220;Scaling with WooCommerce,&#8221; it’s really about that. It’s about different ways you can scale and how your growth and how the profit that you have… How much you should spend some of that into scaling well. It’s a very hard lesson to give to people, and that’s why case studies are so important—to show people how others did and how directly relatable it is for websites that run faster, how it converts better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that’s measurable. That’s something that, for example, Mike also has on his website—a tool to calculate that. So it’s very obvious to us that this is relatable, but it’s sometimes hard to explain that to other people. Do you think WooCommerce needs to have more case studies of the bigger clients where we can really point to them and say, &#8220;Look, WooCommerce is used in this million-dollar company, it’s used on that website&#8221;? Because with WordPress, we do this a little bit—we do tell people who are the big institutions and companies who use WordPress. I personally think WooCommerce misses that a little bit. Do you think that’s the case as well? And I know this is more marketing than performance, but it’s sort of related, right? It’s like, &#8220;Look, this is a website that has a thousand orders a day; you can do it as well. So your decision with having five orders a day today is a good one because you can scale it to a thousand a day.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />I think it would be helpful, yeah. So this is, as you said, marketing, but we do have customers that use WooCommerce on some crazy scales, and it could make a lot of sense to document their journey if they’re fine with it and tell people that they’re using it. Tell people what scale they have, how they’re managing it, what their average request times are, what their conversion is, and things like that. I think it would be helpful. Let me see if I can ask some people inside to see if we can do this sort of marketing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />Yeah, I think it’s very important, and this is the first thing people ask us: &#8220;Yeah, but do you have any examples?&#8221; and all of that. Obviously, Mike, being an expert, is more oriented toward this performance tuning part of the business. Mike does a very great job in writing case studies and almost automatically selling the idea that if you increase performance, you gain in sales. And yeah, I think that’s a very important part, and WooCommerce, I think, misses that a little bit, which we should definitely be investing more in—talking about these clients that I’m talking about. I’ve worked with some of them as well, and some of them… WooCommerce coming over to Codeable and asking for freelancers to work on these bigger clients because they have these bigger challenges. I was surprised to know, &#8220;Oh, this business? I know this business,&#8221; and I’m not living in the USA, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I’m not supposed to know all the small, medium businesses and names that they have over there that have ads on the television and all of that. So there’s a culture around the businesses that is more US-oriented than in the rest of the world. But there are some other names who come over to this side of the world, and they get their brands and names over here. Some of them I say, &#8220;Oh, this website runs WooCommerce? Oh, that website runs WooCommerce?&#8221; So it’s kind of a surprise for me, and I question… It shouldn’t be a surprise for me as it shouldn’t be a surprise for anybody else. I think there’s something that needs to be done in terms of telling everybody, like all the other competing platforms do, right? They do announce who the brands are that are using them. I think it’s very beneficial if they would do that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />I’ve found the challenge is often that… With the Shark Tank client, they made me sign an NDA. They don’t want me to publicize who they are because once it’s a business, there’s money involved, there’s competition, and people are always looking for a technical edge or a way to… &#8220;How are they doing it?&#8221; If you keep your competitors stuck on trying to figure out the technical puzzle, it takes away their resources from being able to compete in other areas that might be challenging for you to keep up with. So I think part of it, unfortunately, is just business and the nature of it, and trying to keep things competitive and keep your profit margins and your market share. It’s way easier for me to get people who just use WordPress for the blog or the content production… They’re happy to brag about how many visits they’re getting and how much things got better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But as soon as they’re selling a product, it becomes… Yeah, they seem way more hesitant. So maybe giving them incentives might help. I think that making this connection with the WooCommerce core team helps provide a… Like, &#8220;Hey, we’d like to share your story. You’ll still be anonymous, but we’d like to get some numbers out there.&#8221; It helps build some trust, I think, and confidence in WooCommerce as a product for the long term. We’ll see if we can help make something like that happen. I don’t know if you experience that as well, Marcel, with… If you want to write a case study or publish things that… They’re like, &#8220;Hey, you can say…&#8221; I change the names, and I usually don’t use the company name unless they say it’s okay. And it’s very rare that they say yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />Yeah, there’s this concern about giving away some critical information that they took months or years to accumulate. Then simply there’s another developer who comes in and just talks about all the tricks and all the things that… Sometimes, Mike, they don’t even want to tell that it is you who worked on this particular feature because then other companies and competitors will come to you and say, &#8220;Hey, but I’ll pay double if you do the same thing for me,&#8221; and stuff like that. I understand that, but at the same time, WooCommerce is also a business, I would say, because they want advertising in terms of what clients use, what companies use WooCommerce. Two businesses talk to each other, and as you said, Mike, they will compensate for giving away that information to each other. I think there’s… Yeah, it’s a challenge.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We have obviously this challenge,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>and we have NDAs, and we are more strict about talking about it because we know the nitty-gritty, and we know all the tricks, and we know what we did with the website. It would help immensely others who are struggling to scale their online shops to know how the others did it, right? That’s the whole secret about maintaining a business: &#8220;How are those guys selling ten times more than we are? What are they doing? Why is it that their website is loading in 200 milliseconds and mine is two seconds?&#8221; Yeah, I understand how challenging that can be, for sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />Especially if you talk about scale—how many orders you are getting—it gives your competitor a direct idea of the exact revenue that you’re making, right? Or it at least gives them a ballpark, which is pretty sensitive to give away.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />And what Marcel was saying too, that there are clients that don’t want me to even announce which industry they are working in because they’re like, &#8220;You’re my secret sauce. You’re my competitive advantage, and I don’t want other people to know that you’re helping me.&#8221; Then they’re going to offer you money—double, triple, or whatever—to do the same stuff. It’s tricky. It’s very flattering; it’s a very nice compliment. But at the same time, I think when you get into freelancing and helping WooCommerce stores with performance and user experience and all of that, you’re interested in making the internet a more enjoyable place for people to shop and do stuff. If you’re sort of restricted to doing that for fewer people, it feels weird—it doesn’t feel like you’re fulfilling your mission, I guess, in the same way as you’d ideally like to.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />100%, definitely. Vedanshu, we would have a thousand more questions to ask you. We would probably get much more technical in our questions than our audience would like us to get. But we would like to thank you very much for participating in today’s episode. It was a pleasure having you. We’re definitely going to keep in contact because, yeah, this is what we love to do. We love to have these connections with people who are, first of all, smarter than we are; secondly, who know about what’s coming in the future and what’s happening with WooCommerce; and thirdly, because you’re very friendly and very helpful in answering our questions. This is something that we all benefit from, and therefore we thank you for your participation today. It was a pleasure having you on the episode.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />Thank you so much. The pleasure was all mine. I wouldn’t say anything on the &#8220;smarter&#8221; bit because I think you’re all much smarter than me. But yeah, it was a pleasure being here, talking to you, and you’re all friendly too, so yeah, it makes for a nice time. Thank you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />Alright, thank you so much for listening. This is our first guest that we are bringing on this new edition of Woo Have Chat. We’re going to have other guests coming up. Yeah, this is just the beginning of it, right, Mike?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />Warm-up? Yeah, yeah. During this recording, I was thinking that Vedanshu is like a performance hero. He’s helping speed up WooCommerce across countless stores, and I think we need to have more friendly, approachable, passionate performance heroes on the show and have them share their experience and stuff. So I hope you’re okay with that title. We can get you a cape if you want.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu:<br />Please, please. I would go and buy a cape right now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mike:<br />What color should it be? Purple? WooCommerce purple?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Marcel:<br />Probably, yeah, probably. Alright, we want to thank you so much for listening, and we’ll see you in the next episode.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode of <strong><em>Woo DevChat</em></strong>, hosts <strong>Marcel</strong> and <strong>Mike</strong> dive deep into the world of WooCommerce performance and scalability with <strong>Vedanshu Jain,core developer and key contributor to the WooCommerce project at Automattic</strong>. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vedanshu shares his insights on High-Performance Order Storage (HPOS), a game-changing feature designed to help WooCommerce stores handle massive volumes of orders without compromising speed. We discuss the importance of planning for growth, the challenges of adopting new technologies, and how WooCommerce can compete with dedicated e-commerce platforms. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Whether you&#8217;re building a small store or a high-traffic site, this episode is packed with valuable tips on future-proofing your WooCommerce projects.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>HPOS (High-Performance Order Storage):</strong> HPOS is designed to improve the scalability and performance of WooCommerce stores by storing order data in separate tables instead of the default WordPress posts and post meta tables. This approach helps large-scale operations run smoothly without slowing down the site as orders increase.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Importance of Scalability:</strong> For new WooCommerce stores, starting with HPOS is recommended to prepare for future growth, while existing stores should consider migrating to avoid potential performance issues.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Challenges with Adoption:</strong> Despite its benefits, some store owners may hesitate to activate HPOS due to concerns about potential disruptions, especially on live sites. WooCommerce addresses this by offering rollback mechanisms and guides to ensure a safe transition.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Performance Enhancements:</strong> The WooCommerce team continually works on performance improvements, such as introducing full-text search (FTS) indexes in MySQL, which significantly speeds up search queries on large datasets. These enhancements undergo extensive testing before being recommended for widespread use to ensure stability and reliability.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Real-World Testing and Feedback</strong>: Features like FTS indexes are initially released as experimental to gather real-world feedback and identify edge cases before being marked as stable. The WooCommerce team relies on testing both in controlled environments and on real, high-traffic sites to ensure the robustness of new features.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>WooCommerce vs. Dedicated E-commerce Platforms: </strong>WooCommerce’s integration with WordPress offers many advantages, including flexibility and access to a vast ecosystem of plugins and themes. However, there is a perception challenge when comparing WooCommerce, which is a WordPress plugin, with dedicated e-commerce platforms.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Marketing and Communication</strong>: To combat the perception that WooCommerce is only suitable for smaller stores, the platform could benefit from highlighting successful large-scale implementations through case studies. These would play a crucial role in showcasing WooCommerce’s capabilities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>The Importance of Planning for Growth</strong>: As stores grow, they need to plan for increased server resources, potential platform changes, and other scaling challenges. Early planning can help avoid stress and ensure smooth growth.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Challenges in Sharing Success Stories</strong>: While case studies can be valuable, many successful businesses are reluctant to share details due to competitive reasons, including revealing their technical strategies and performance enhancements.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>WooCommerce’s Future Direction</strong>: WooCommerce is deeply integrated with WordPress, and while there are no immediate plans to separate it, the team is focused on enhancing its scalability and performance within the WordPress ecosystem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-large-font-size\"><strong>Links</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/vedanshuj/\">Vedanshu on LinkedIn</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/vedjain/\">Vedanshu on WordPress.org</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://woocommerce.com/document/high-performance-order-storage/\">High-Performance Order Storage Documentation on Woo</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://developer.woocommerce.com/2024/08/22/scaling-with-woocommerce/\">Scaling with WooCommerce</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/8.0/en/fulltext-search.html\">Full-Text Search Functions with MySQL</a></strong></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 02 Sep 2024 09:08:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:41;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:102:\"Gutenberg Times: Gutenberg Changelog #106 – Gutenberg 19.0, 19.1, WordPress 6.7 and Outreach channel\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?post_type=podcast&p=29895\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=29895\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:59856:\"<p>In this episode, Jessica Lyschik and Birgit Pauli-Haack discuss Gutenberg 19.0, 19.1, WordPress 6.7, Outreach channel, and Twenty-Twenty-Five Default theme</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-106-gutenberg-19-0-19-1-wordpress-6-7-outreach/#shownotes\">Show Notes</a> / <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-106-gutenberg-19-0-19-1-wordpress-6-7-outreach/transcript\">Transcript</a></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandy-reed/\">Sandy Reed</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://markuraine.com/\">Mark Uraine</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://icodeforapurpose.com\">Birgit Pauli-Haack</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-larger-font-size\" id=\"shownotes\"><strong>Show Notes</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Developer Hours</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3Zs3NOTLt4&list=PL1pJFUVKQ7ETApyQQlt3pLNjPx2HrQwl5&index=1&pp=iAQB\">Developer Hours: Hello, Blocks! – An Introduction to Block Development</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSukzeeIjb8\">Developer Hours: Building WordPress themes with the Create Block Theme plugin</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1pJFUVKQ7ETApyQQlt3pLNjPx2HrQwl5\">Developer Hours YouTube playlist</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WordPress Releases</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/19/wordpress-6-6-2/\">WordPress 6.6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-7/\">WordPress 6.7</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/orgs/WordPress/projects/210/views/1\">Project Board for Editor Tasks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/16/hallway-hangout-recording-lets-chat-about-whats-next-in-gutenberg-august-2024/\">Hallway Hangout recording: Let’s chat about what’s next in Gutenberg (August 2024)</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Twenty-Twenty-Five default theme</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/15/introducing-twenty-twenty-five/\">Introducing Twenty Twenty-Five</a>&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/30/default-theme-chat-summary-august-28-2024/\">Default Theme Chat Summary, August 28, 2024</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/twentytwentyfive/\">WordPress/twentytwentyfive</a>&nbsp;(<a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/twentytwentyfive/archive/refs/heads/trunk.zip\">Download Zip file</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Or&nbsp;<a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/#{%22landingPage%22:%22/%22,%22steps%22:[{%22step%22:%22installTheme%22,%22themeZipFile%22:{%22resource%22:%22url%22,%22url%22:%22https://github-proxy.com/proxy/?repo=WordPress/twentytwentyfive&branch=trunk%22},%22options%22:{%22activate%22:true}}]}\">check it out on a test site via Playground</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What&#8217;s Released</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/create-block-theme/\">Create Block Theme plugin</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSukzeeIjb8\">Developer Hours: Building WordPress themes with the Create Block Theme plugin</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/14/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-0-14-august/\">What’s new in Gutenberg 19.0? (14 August)</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/?p=115085&preview=1&_ppp=0dbaacf08c\">What’s new in Gutenberg 19.1</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>What&#8217;s discussed? </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Inline commenting on Blocks <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/59445\">https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/59445</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-large-font-size\">Stay in Touch</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Did you like this episode? <a href=\"https://lovethepodcast.com/gutenbergchangelog\"><strong>Please write us a review </strong></a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Ping us on X (formerly known as Twitter) or send DMs with questions. <a href=\"https://twitter.com/gutenbergtimes\">@gutenbergtimes </a>and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/bph\">@bph</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><em>If you have questions or suggestions, or news you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. </em></li>\n\n\n\n<li><em>Please write us a review on iTunes! <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/itunes/\">(Click here to learn how)</a></em></li>\n</ul>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-large-font-size\" id=\"transcript\"><strong>Transcript</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Well, hello and welcome to our 106th episode of the Gutenberg Chainsaw Podcast. In today&#8217;s episode, we will talk about Gutenberg 19.0, 19.1, WordPress 6.7, and some other stuff. I&#8217;m your host, Birgit Pauli-Haack, curator at the Gutenberg Times and a full-time core contributor for the WordPress Open Source project sponsored by Automattic.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>With me today as co-host is Jessica Lyschik from Greyd, core contributor and theme wizard, and one of the people you&#8217;ll find often in the WordPress Outreach channel discussing block themes and other topics. It&#8217;s wonderful to have you, Jessica. Thank you for taking the time. How are you today and how was your summer?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, thanks for having me, Birgit. I&#8217;m doing good. My summer was nice so far. It&#8217;s a bit hot outside, so I&#8217;m here in the cool area, so that&#8217;s all good.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, I just recently looked at the&#8230; So I&#8217;m pretty much also, it&#8217;s very hot. It&#8217;s about 29 degrees inside, 31 outside Celsius, and I was just comparing it to Florida because I lived there for 25 years and I found that the advantage here in Munich is that in the night, it gets really colder.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It cools off about eight degrees. So I looked at the weather in Florida even at night they have 25, 24 degrees, and here we have about 16 or 15 degrees Celsius, so it&#8217;s all bearable. And a night owl like me can certainly survive this one here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, I&#8217;m a night owl too. So in the evening, it&#8217;s a bit more chilly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. So Jessica, you have been on the show before. This is your third time, but for our new listeners, would you tell us briefly what you&#8217;re working on and how you contribute to WordPress?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, sure. So Birgit has actually introduced me quite well already. So I&#8217;m working at Greyd on the products that enhance not just the block editor, but also a lot of stuff to improve your workflows in managing a WordPress website. So I do everything from support, to bug fixes, to new features like the whole package.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I&#8217;m also a WordPress core contributor and have worked on the Twenty Twenty Four theme last year. So it&#8217;s now been a year since then. And apparently I appear way too often on the outreach channel on Slack, and I hope that not every time people are rolling their eyes because I have asked another question there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> No, it&#8217;s quite the opposite actually, and I just mentioned it because I don&#8217;t think we talked on this show before on the outreach program that merged into a broader scope than it was with the full site editing. And it&#8217;s a channel where Nick Diego, Justin Tadlock, myself, and Ryan Welcher actually hang out on the WordPress Slack to answer questions, connect with extenders that build products on top of WordPress or know coders that do theme building.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so if you have questions or if you think something isn&#8217;t right or if you just wonder, okay, I don&#8217;t know, is it supposed to work like that or is it a bug? And to figure that out, it&#8217;s very hard to do a bug report when you don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s supposed to work like that or not. So we figure it out together. And so answering questions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So when you come, you actually are part of the feedback loop back to the developers as well to say, okay, if Jessica&#8217;s confused, it&#8217;s confused for other people too, or you&#8217;re also an early warning system. Jessica the canary. So keep doing what you&#8217;re doing. It helps you probably both in your work as well as in our work, and I want to encourage a lot of other people to come to the channel and hang out. We don&#8217;t bite. We answer every question and we hope you get better at whatever you want to do. So that&#8217;s why I mentioned it before.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> And I&#8217;m the one who asks the most questions, I feel like, in this channel.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Sometimes. Well, that depends on what you&#8217;re working on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, that&#8217;s actually true. So sometimes it&#8217;s like there&#8217;s something, a feature we would like to add in our product and it&#8217;s like, hmm, how is core handling that? Is that actually right? Or should this be different? Is that a bug? Is that a bug in our end in our product? Can we reproduce this with just for default theme and WordPress core itself?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And oftentimes it&#8217;s a bit unsure, is it really supposed to work like that? So I had multiple questions of these and I got them answered all. I think there was one or two that were too broad and maybe not in depth from my side, which is totally okay. But in general, I can say has always been an answer at some point, and if not, then just keep iterating on it. So keep asking again.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think it works very well in the outreach channel. Just also from my perspective as an extender, I think it&#8217;s super valuable to have this channel so I can just discuss this in turn with my colleagues and then, okay, we don&#8217;t know what to do next or where the culprit is so we can ask core contributors and maybe other people have ideas. So I have helped out also other people that had questions where I knew the answer to, so I help them out as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> And sometimes it&#8217;s not just something that doesn&#8217;t work right or it&#8217;s quirky or something like that. It&#8217;s more like how do you approach it in working with that particular API and having multiple voices in one channel actually helps really figuring it out for yourself or for myself, but also gives a better input or feedback on what are the use cases, special features will come in.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We have new APIs for the plugins and can do templates that are editable in this site editor when we talk about it a little later today with the 19.1 release. But that is certainly something that needs to be discussed with a few people. There&#8217;s also a GitHub group, it&#8217;s called WordPress/Outreach, where about 22 people extenders have said, &#8220;Okay, if you ping us with that handle, we are ready to give feedback on certain new features and a discussion on issue on GitHub or on a PR.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I think we can close the feedback loops a little bit or make the feedback loops a little bit closer and a little bit more interactive during development and even afterwards. Well, that&#8217;s a little excursion, the outreach channel, so join us there. You definitely need a Slack account and you need a WordPress.org account, but other than that, it&#8217;s easy access.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Announcements<strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>So we are at the announcements space on this podcast and it&#8217;s been a while since our last show with Ellen Bauer, so let&#8217;s catch up on a few things. So there were two more developer hours that happened last month. One was on Hello Blocks, an introduction to block development. It&#8217;s not about new features, it&#8217;s about if you haven&#8217;t yet started getting into block development, I think Ryan Welcher was there how to get started, how to approach it, what are the things to learn, and I think they did a great job in putting that all together.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then we also had one last week that was the building WordPress themes with the Create Block Theme plugin, and Tammie Lister showed us how she works with that plugin in her theme development process. And it was a great insight also because you also talked about style variations, what works and what doesn&#8217;t work and all that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So the recordings are up on YouTube and of course, we&#8217;ll share all the links in the show notes including the link to the developer hours YouTube playlist, so you can go back and listen to the other 25 developer hours that have been done since, I think, last year. Have you listened to any of those developer hours? Not necessarily those two, but others?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> I think I&#8217;ve attended a few in the past, so these two were&#8230; I&#8217;m also already too advanced for this, so I skipped them, but I think for new people or people just starting out or not knowing where to start, I think these are pretty good starter sessions to get into to learn the vocabulary that we use and just to see how do things work and maybe then experiment on top of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Exactly, yeah. It&#8217;s hard to get into all the different audiences. Yeah, they are low-code people, there are developer people, so this is definitely for developers that touch code and more than for no-code or low-code site builders. There are two releases, WordPress releases coming up. There&#8217;s a minor release, a maintenance release coming up with WordPress 6.6.2.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The release candidate one is scheduled for September 4th and the full release is planned for September 10th. And block editor wise, there is mostly some touch up on the CSS specificity that came out with 6.6 and got a few sites struggling with that. And though the bugs are coming through and we share the link to the release post so you can look up on the track tickets what else is in that maintenance release.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WordPress 6.7</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The second release coming up is WordPress 6.7, the major release and WordPress beta one is scheduled for Tuesday, November 1st.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> October 1st.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> November 1st, I wish. October 1st. Thank you so much for pointing that out for me. It&#8217;s right there. But the reading at the brain&#8230; It&#8217;s only now it&#8217;s only four weeks away and the last Gutenberg plugin that&#8217;s going to push features into that release will be 19.3. So there are two more Gutenberg plugin releases to come. And then we know what actually made it into 6.7 release.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s a project board for the editor task, and a couple of weeks ago, there was a hallway hangout with demos of what&#8217;s next for Gutenberg and it showed some demos from the developers how the new tabs block comes along, how a new accordion block comes along, how the image gallery light box is supposed to work, then how the UI for custom fields going to look like with the block bindings together and with the sync patterns overrides.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then there&#8217;s also a free form cropping tool that people are working on. I&#8217;m not quite sure it&#8217;s going to make it for 6.7, but it&#8217;s definitely worth looking at it because it&#8217;s better than what is there now. And then there were status updates on data views on the zoomed out mode, on the grid layout, and also on background images for block support.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So those are things that we don&#8217;t have a roadmap for WordPress 6.7 yet it probably will be published with a source of truth that Anne McCarthy puts out, and there probably won&#8217;t be a prior WordPress roadmap for WordPress 6.7. So we&#8217;ll definitely keep you informed. Anything that stood out for you, Jessica, that you&#8217;re excited about?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik</em>: 6.7 will also ship with a new default theme.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Good point. That was not on the Hallway Hangout.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik</em>: Because I think the Hallway Hangout happened before the introduction post got online I think something like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik</em>: So new default theme. So Twenty Twenty Four will have its last days. Nah, just kidding. Twenty Twenty Five will be coming, yes. Yeah, design is up. The work has already started and I haven&#8217;t checked in this week, I was a bit busy. But so far, what I&#8217;ve been seeing looks pretty good. It&#8217;s like progress is made. They have a few more weeks than we did last year.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Last year we had only four, now they have seven, so they have a bit more time to polish things, but I think overall the design is pretty straightforward. It has some nice features in it, but it&#8217;s not too advanced that it super much relies on features to be implemented. I know Carolina has been working on post formats as well, but I don&#8217;t think that these will make it actually. So I think there&#8217;s some more feedback needed or some more iterations needed on that, but overall the theme just looks great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. Yeah. And the listeners, we will share the introduction post that was on the make core block, I think it was&#8230; Yeah, I&#8217;ll find it. I didn&#8217;t put it in the list here. I&#8217;m sorry.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> No worries, that&#8217;s why you have me here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yes, right. You are more in tune than what happened in the last four weeks than I was because I was on vacation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Everyone deserves a vacation, so that&#8217;s fine.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, so I also saw that Carolina, and we&#8217;re talking about Carolina Nymark who was here two episodes before on the show. She is also facilitating weekly meetings for contributors to the default Twenty Twenty Five theme because there is a call for contributors for creating style variations as well as patterns. And so if you want to contribute to that or just see what&#8217;s happening about it, just follow the core Slack block for the theme meetings for the default theme so you know what&#8217;s up.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s Released &#8211; Create Block Theme<strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>So we are at the stage what actually was released, and before we go into Gutenberg, let&#8217;s talk about the Create Block Theme plugin. I&#8217;m not sure if you&#8217;re actually using that because you&#8217;re more into code and not going from the site to use the theme and back and forth again, but that&#8217;s what you can do with Create Block Theme plugin. You can make all the design changes and decisions on a theme.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you can clone a theme, you can start an empty theme from scratch, or you can create a child theme with that plugin directly from your admin for the admin pages or for the site from the site editor. And then you can save the changes that are made through the site editor that are stored in the database, be pulled out into your file system, so being changes for colors or style variations or all that, you can then export it into your theme file system and then use that update so you can use it on a different site as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that&#8217;s actually a process that quite a few theme developers use, especially also those that work for Automattic. There was a Hallway Hangout where Beatrice Fialho, who also is the designer of the Twenty Twenty Five theme, has demonstrated her workflow from using the site editor to pull in a theme into Playground and then use the plugin to get it out of it into and then push it to GitHub as a pull request.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that was really cool. And you don&#8217;t need to know code pretty much, you can all do it through Playground. But the Create Block Theme plugin is sometimes a little bit behind core because all the new features need to land in core and then it needs to be decided. Okay, how can Block Theme plugin&#8230; God, this hard?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> It&#8217;s all worse than one.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. Create Block Theme plugin help, no coders or theme builders to get everything out again into a theme that is reusable. So there&#8217;s a new global style, JSON data inspector. There&#8217;s also an update on the black theme, theme JSON. Then the side bar because when you install it&#8217;s installed, it has the side bar in the side editor, but on classic themes you don&#8217;t have the site bar. So it&#8217;s disabled for classic themes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can still use it through the admin pages, and now they had to bump up the minimum required WordPress version to 6.6. So if you use that Create Block Theme plugin, I will cluster the links in the show notes with the developer hours with Tammie Lister, the link to the plugin, and also to the Hallway Hangout recap where we have the demo, how the plugin Playground and GitHub can work together to put it also in version control.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It was complicated. I thought it would be easier, but maybe it&#8217;s just me who made it complicated.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Gutenberg 19.0</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>All right, Gutenberg 19.0, 206 PRs merged by 50 contributors including five first-time contributors. Fabulous. Great work. So what&#8217;s new? Yeah, no fear. We will not read all 206 PRs. We only grab a few of those as most of you know, do you want to start Jessica?</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Enhancements</h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, I think we can directly start with one of the enhancements, which is font format library at old edit field to inline image, which basically means when you have added an inline image to a paragraph for example, then you can also now add an alternative text, which was previously not possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think there was only that you could adjust the width but not add anything else. And maybe sometimes it would be helpful to have an alternative text there, especially for accessibility reasons. So that&#8217;s actually a really cool change. It&#8217;s tiny, but it&#8217;s really helping. Definitely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, just to clarify, I totally agree with you. It&#8217;s tiny, but a very good enhancement. If the image has an alt text in the media library, it automatically was pulled but you weren&#8217;t able to change it. So that&#8217;s why the edit field was added to it. So if somebody uploaded it without an alt text, you couldn&#8217;t edit it unless you go back to the media library and edit it, remove it from the canvas and then put it in again. So this is not so much…</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, sometimes it will be usable or exactly using that case to have no alternative text when it&#8217;s just something, a visual indicator. So there&#8217;s no need for an alternative text. But as you said, when you can only change it from what&#8217;s in the media library then it makes no sense because sometimes you would need it and sometimes maybe even not. Now you can really apply an alternative text or not if you don&#8217;t need it. So you have now both options.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, decorative imaging doesn&#8217;t need an alt text, but yes, cool. For the gallery link controls, they are now in the block toolbar. So because the link controls not only has, you could either put a link on the image or you can enable the click to increase and those two things were separated, so you could actually do both.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now you can only do either one of them, which makes sense because you can only do a one click action on the image. So that&#8217;s why those things are now combined and you find them in the block toolbar and not in the side bar.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, that&#8217;s a pretty good user experience enhancement. So I really like that. I actually haven&#8217;t seen this before, but good to have it pointed out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So on the navigation block, the system now hides the overlay menu, that&#8217;s the mobile menu. If the block is selected so it gets out of your way. The navigation block gets quite a few incremental changes and improvements, but this one is definitely&#8230;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And it&#8217;s all a little bit clustered and we find in other releases that or that they&#8217;re working on is removing or moving stuff around. So the navigation block will have some additional small improvements, quality of life improvements, which are definitely necessary.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Border block support, yay. More posts receive borders, yay. I mean it sounds super hard, but it&#8217;s actually, I don&#8217;t think where Borders started out which block it was just a few, couple blocks, but it makes sense to have them at more blocks available because sometimes you want to style and a block with borders when your layout needs it, for example.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So otherwise, you would have to put it in a group before and now you can just style it on the block itself just like you can do in CSS basically. And I think borders is a really nice example where it makes sense to add it to a lot of blocks. So there are a couple of more that got border block support in 19.0. So mostly post-related blocks, post-date, post-term, post-title, so and then we have site tagline, site title, table of contents. It&#8217;s not published yet, I think.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Well, table of contents is in the plugin, but it&#8217;s not in the core.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> It&#8217;s in the plugin, right? It&#8217;s not in core yet. Exactly. Is Time To Read in core already? I&#8217;m not sure, no.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> No. There were some accessibility issues with Time To Read and also the exclusivity it makes you feel bad when you take longer than the Time To Read puts out there. So there were some concerns in that both are in the Gutenberg plugin definitely, but now they have border support, so if you use them in production, it&#8217;s always interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So there were some tweaks on the tag cloud controls and description there were nice because it&#8217;s a little bit more organized in the side bar and how the design is cleaned up and it also has the feature smallest to largest. You can now put the side, it&#8217;s a little bit more organized and also has a better description. The next one is the list block.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, the list block seems to got a bunch of improvements there. I&#8217;m just trying to figure it out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Change the numbering style to something much more recognizable like a list style and then move the style controls up to the start value controls. So it&#8217;s also the user interface for that. Change the longer title to just for reverse list numbering to just reverse, which would be definitely equally understandable, I hope.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then remove the default background color control to the list item, which is very nice. I like that because then you can do your own stripe design if you want to And it changed the default icon size to the, what is that? 40 pixels. That&#8217;s something that some of the interface items have a different size than others and I think the standardized is to go for 40 pixels.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> I have seen this change now across the change logs recently, so I think there&#8217;s some unification there going on to make them all the same size. So you know where do you expect to click in. That makes total sense. No, that&#8217;s actually pretty good improvement. So it&#8217;s, again, just tiny and probably not the next big feature, but it&#8217;s definitely user experience improvement. That&#8217;s cool to see.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, there is a Gutenberg polish board that has been around for I think three versions and contributors are getting finally a little bit more through that to make all those changes. So I like that there&#8217;s revisit some of the design choices and unify them exactly, especially because there are new things coming in the data views and it would be helpful when they were all standardized as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And one of the features in the Gutenberg 19.0 is additional data use extensibility. So it allows now to unregister permanent delete post actions or unregister restore post action or unregister trash post action. That is for site owners or site builders that want to put some guardrails around those state of use actions to help the clients not to get lost or…</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Destroy site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Save them for themselves. Yeah, destroy their site, yes. But it also opens it up. I think it&#8217;s another, it&#8217;s also coming, if it&#8217;s under 19.1, it&#8217;s definitely a 19.2 is that it opens up that particular piece also for third-party additional bug action. So I think that&#8217;s the way to where it goes, where it&#8217;s heading.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, I think we need this also because the true power of WordPress previously when you use the old style backend, it&#8217;s extensibility. So you could add whatever you needed to work with whatever plugin, functionality was provided